Junior Doctors Now About To Start A Six Day Strike ?

[islandgun]

26 minutes ago, marsh man said:

Health wise I have been very lucky in life and only needed the N H S for minor cuts , wear and tear on my back and a couple of years ago I had a in and out same day hernia operation , the times I went to our local hospital I was treated with respect and could not fault the service .

Just recently I had to call the N H S again in an emergency as my dear wife had stopped breathing in her sleep , the lady on the phone was reassuring and tried to keep me calm while I was in a state of panic , as I couldn't put my wife on the floor by myself I had to see if my neighbour was up to give me a hand and just when I went outside the ambulance was coming around the corner , this was between 6 and 7 minutes from my first phone call as the hospital is only two miles away from my house , two young ladies jumped out and ran in my house to do what they could , a few minutes later another fast response motor pulled up to assist the two ladies , they kept me informed what they were trying to do and when the police car pulled up I knew then that all there work was in vain , they were all very compassionate and would have stayed as long as I would have like them to , but they had done there best and maybe there day had only just begun and these are the sort of things they have to contend with day after day , truly wonderful people and where on earth would we be without them .     MM

That was hard to read MM, please accept my condolences, although Im just someone on a forum, you should know I am thinking of you

[JohnfromUK]

46 minutes ago, marsh man said:

Just recently I had to call the N H S again in an emergency as my dear wife had stopped breathing in her sleep

My condolences.  My own mother passed in a very similar way (around 30 years ago now).

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Yes John you have my sincere condolences.

[old'un]

Blimey John, I am so sorry to hear such sad news, my thoughts are with you mate.

[johnphilip]

1 hour ago, islandgun said:

That was hard to read MM, please accept my condolences, although Im just someone on a forum, you should know I am thinking of you

Beautiful  words,  you have summed it up perfectly  . Greatest  of respect. To you . We are nothing without companion for others. 

[welsh1]

Marsh Man, my very deepest condolances.

[Jaymo]

John

You have our thoughts and sympathy. 
If there is anything that you need, we’re not far away as you know. 
Jay 

[Lloyd90]

Once again a sad attitude shown on here regarding the NHS and public sector workers, yet we see other threads complaining about how services are crumbling, not working and letting the country down. 
 

UK workers both public and private have seen significant wage stagnation for many years now. 
 

Look at similar wages abroad and the UK is well behind for lots of fields. 
 

Add in fairly high taxes, inflation, constantly rising house prices and cost of living. 
 

We don’t have enough Doctors, many doctors (as well as nurses and similar) are moving abroad for better pay and quality of life. 
 

The idea that those who choose to remain in the UK rather than jump ship should therefore have to shut up about the pay and conditions and be blasted for fighting for better pay and conditions is madness. 
 

Similarly in the private sector: 

We continue to hear “we can’t afford better pay”… 

CEO pay vs average worker pay in 1989 was 59:1… these days it’s almost 400:1. 
 

There seems to be plenty of profit for CEO’s, big bonuses and share holder bonus payouts. 

[Aled]

My condolences Marsh Man. 

[Pushkin]

When they say they are striking for more money and improved working conditions, what exactly do they mean by the latter?  A new hospital built just for them!
Pushkin🥴

[udderlyoffroad]

@Marshman My thoughts and sympathies go out to you. We all know if you have a partner, that one of you has to die first - but it doesn’t make it any easier.

Back to the matter at hand, It is a purely political strike. The equivalent in Scotland accepted a settlement at less than half the asked for 35%

@Lloyd90 ask yourself what it is that other nations do differently that enable them to pay equivalent experience doctors more. The answer, by the way, is demonstrably not throw more money at the problem. Other nations spend less per head on healthcare & get way better outcomes, without sacrificing those who can’t afford healthcare.

High time the NHS in its current form was put to sleep.

 

 

[oowee]

23 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

 

@Lloyd90 ask yourself what it is that other nations do differently that enable them to pay equivalent experience doctors more. The answer, by the way, is demonstrably not throw more money at the problem. Other nations spend less per head on healthcare & get way better outcomes, without sacrificing those who can’t afford healthcare.

Who would you have in mind? These things are never straightforward. Thinking of the mix between health care, disease prevention and social care budgets. 

Edited January 3 by oowee

[welsh1]

33 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Once again a sad attitude shown on here regarding the NHS and public sector workers, yet we see other threads complaining about how services are crumbling, not working and letting the country down. 
 

UK workers both public and private have seen significant wage stagnation for many years now. 
 

Look at similar wages abroad and the UK is well behind for lots of fields. 
 

Add in fairly high taxes, inflation, constantly rising house prices and cost of living. 
 

We don’t have enough Doctors, many doctors (as well as nurses and similar) are moving abroad for better pay and quality of life. 
 

The idea that those who choose to remain in the UK rather than jump ship should therefore have to shut up about the pay and conditions and be blasted for fighting for better pay and conditions is madness. 
 

Similarly in the private sector: 

We continue to hear “we can’t afford better pay”… 

CEO pay vs average worker pay in 1989 was 59:1… these days it’s almost 400:1. 
 

There seems to be plenty of profit for CEO’s, big bonuses and share holder bonus payouts. 

I read an interesting article on doctors moving abroad, the overall concensus was although they were paid more, they were also taxed higher and the cost of living was generally higher, in particular a doctor who moved to australia who admitted she still worked long hours had better pay, but offset against the cost of housing and the cost of living and tax she was no better off if not as slightly worse off, although she was happy about the weather, she said she felt she was fed a dream to entice her there and it wasn't all it was cracked up to be.

To give pay rises means the public purse has to be squeezed, and at a time when most in the private sector are having to accept small pay rises it is not acceptable that doctors should get the 30+% they want, they have been offered a rise in line with others, when you factor in that the public purse will give them a very generous pension pot and they will also go on to do a lot of private work and earn very good money then they are doing better than most.

Your argument about CEOs is misleading, their rises and payouts are funded through profits the company makes not the public purse.

The irony is by these strikes the doctors are damaging the NHS ,creating huge waiting lists, and people on those lists are deteriorating so there is a future health cost to be met because of their actions.

 

 

[Lloyd90]

2 hours ago, marsh man said:

Health wise I have been very lucky in life and only needed the N H S for minor cuts , wear and tear on my back and a couple of years ago I had a in and out same day hernia operation , the times I went to our local hospital I was treated with respect and could not fault the service .

Just recently I had to call the N H S again in an emergency as my dear wife had stopped breathing in her sleep , the lady on the phone was reassuring and tried to keep me calm while I was in a state of panic , as I couldn't put my wife on the floor by myself I had to see if my neighbour was up to give me a hand and just when I went outside the ambulance was coming around the corner , this was between 6 and 7 minutes from my first phone call as the hospital is only two miles away from my house , two young ladies jumped out and ran in my house to do what they could , a few minutes later another fast response motor pulled up to assist the two ladies , they kept me informed what they were trying to do and when the police car pulled up I knew then that all there work was in vain , they were all very compassionate and would have stayed as long as I would have like them to , but they had done there best and maybe there day had only just begun and these are the sort of things they have to contend with day after day , truly wonderful people and where on earth would we be without them .     MM

I am very sorry to hear that 😞

[12gauge82]

I'm very sorry to hear that Marshman. I very recently had my own family tragedy and unfortunately I believe the care they received wasn't up to scratch, despite the odd decent doctor and nurse.

 

With regard to doctors on strike, why don't the government make it illegal for all doctors and nurses to go on strike, I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that it is already illegal for the police to strike due to their necessary services, surely that should apply to medical professionals to.

[Lloyd90]

4 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

I read an interesting article on doctors moving abroad, the overall concensus was although they were paid more, they were also taxed higher and the cost of living was generally higher, in particular a doctor who moved to australia who admitted she still worked long hours had better pay, but offset against the cost of housing and the cost of living and tax she was no better off if not as slightly worse off, although she was happy about the weather, she said she felt she was fed a dream to entice her there and it wasn't all it was cracked up to be.

To give pay rises means the public purse has to be squeezed, and at a time when most in the private sector are having to accept small pay rises it is not acceptable that doctors should get the 30+% they want, they have been offered a rise in line with others, when you factor in that the public purse will give them a very generous pension pot and they will also go on to do a lot of private work and earn very good money then they are doing better than most.

Your argument about CEOs is misleading, their rises and payouts are funded through profits the company makes not the public purse.

The irony is by these strikes the doctors are damaging the NHS ,creating huge waiting lists, and people on those lists are deteriorating so there is a future health cost to be met because of their actions.

 

Yes the payment to CEO’s and shareholders is from profits but it just shows the huge shift in priorities from employees, workers are told there’s no money for pay rises whilst those at the top are being paid significantly more. 
 

I understand more than most the risk and burden starting a company takes on but it’s gets to a point where it’s just perverse. Especially with public utilities like the water companies as an example. Paying massive bonuses and profits whilst doing an awful job. 
 

 

I understand that over the past year or two even the private sector pay rises have been low, but we’re looking at pay erosion over the past 20 years. 
 

There were many years my wife in the private sector was getting over inflation rises whilst in the public sector we were on a pay freeze or +1-2%. 
 

Some will (quite childishly) say, don’t work in the public sector then. 
 

I didn’t go into that work based off the financial reward, but I still hold the right to complain when the pay is eroded year after year. 
 

Similarly in other fields, and there are plenty who are saying “fair enough” to such childish comments and leaving in droves. 
 

There are staff leaving the Police, NHS and social services in droves. 
 

Add to the pay erosion that the tax thresholds have been frozen for years. The 40% threshold should be sitting at around 65-75k if it had kept pace with inflation, not sure what the 20% would start at but it has similarly been held back, hitting people hard in their pockets! 

6 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

With regard to doctors on strike, why don't the government make it illegal for all doctors and nurses to go on strike, I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that it is already illegal for the police to strike due to their necessary services, surely that should apply to medical professionals to.

Yes the Police aren’t allowed to strike, neither are prison officers I believe. 
 

The Police have an “independent” pay review body to counter this so it’s somewhat fair … I believe they recommended something like 7% pay rise last year for the Police… only to be ignored by the Government 🤣. 
 

Front line police are walking out all over the country. 
 

They are having to recruit and promote people who are not experienced or skilled enough due to shortages. 
 

Recent inspections of services shows them getting very poorly graded. 
 

There are (like the other services) many skilled and hard working offices out there but the workload is insane and unmanageable. 
 

The Police are having a massive shift in attitude and won’t be attending lots of calls in future. 

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that it is already illegal for the police to strike due to their necessary services

I think you are basically correct - and it also applies to the related services like the Security Service, the Prison Service etc.  The law is the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 I think.  I believe there are also rules for the Armed Forces.  There has been talk of extending it to cover other 'essential' roles, but it hasn't happened.

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, it is interesting that i have never seen a Trainee Doctor actually show their full earnings , most are on shift patterns, but as MMs post there are moments in life where they excel expectations, 

[marsh man]

2 hours ago, islandgun said:

That was hard to read MM, please accept my condolences, although Im just someone on a forum, you should know I am thinking of you

 

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

My condolences.  My own mother passed in a very similar way (around 30 years ago now).

 

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Yes John you have my sincere condolences.

 

1 hour ago, old'un said:

Blimey John, I am so sorry to hear such sad news, my thoughts are with you mate.

 

41 minutes ago, johnphilip said:

Beautiful  words,  you have summed it up perfectly  . Greatest  of respect. To you . We are nothing without companion for others. 

 

35 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

Marsh Man, my very deepest condolances.

 

24 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

John

You have our thoughts and sympathy. 
If there is anything that you need, we’re not far away as you know. 
Jay 

 

13 minutes ago, Aled said:

My condolences Marsh Man. 

 

3 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

@Marshman My thoughts and sympathies go out to you. We all know if you have a partner, that one of you has to die first - but it doesn’t make it any easier.

 

 

 

Many THANKS for all kind words and it shows we have got a lot of caring members who like me are soft at heart . I thought I was pretty hard and could put up with most things in life but losing my wife have left me a total wreck with tears streaming down my face while I am trying to type this out .

We first set our eyes on other in 1959 when we were in the same classroom at senior school , we both left in 63 and went our separate ways and we met up again a few years later when I came out of the R N , we had plenty to talk about and we hit it off right from the start , this carried on for the next three years until we finally tied the knot in 1977 , looking back we had a marriage that most people could only dream of , she was interested in everything I done and came Pigeon shooting with me and for rows out in my gun punts and she thought the world of all the Labradors I had , we lived in our first house 40 years the week we moved and we only decided to move to have a bigger garden , we moved into our present bungalow around 7 years ago and to us it was our ideal home , garden in the front and a fairly big garden at the back and I was only a mile or so from my shooting grounds , we were both contented and very happy with life.

The last day we had together was no different from most of our Sundays , one week we shop local and the next week we have a run up to North Norfolk , our last day was shopping local and my routine is taking my dog for a walk down the marsh while she was filling up the shopping trolley , this happened in the two shops we went in and she was fine , we came home and had a cuppa before I done the tea , I forgot what I done but it looked alright and we both sat at the table eating it when she said she had a pain in her side and felt a bit sick , I got her a bowl and she just brought up some water , I told her to go and lay down for an hour which she did , as the night wore on she seemed alright and took one painkiller and I went to bed around 11.30 , a little while later I heard her get out of bed and I asked her where she was going and she said the toilet , I said do you want me to come with you and she said no I will be alright , as it turned out these were the last words we said to each other , she got back into bed and I was beside her with my arm half over her and I remember feeling her arm was cold and I put it under the covers.

I woke up around 6.30 and she laid on her side with her eyes half open , I got hold of her hand and kept repeating , wake up Ann , wake up Ann louder and louder and I knew in my mind that our journey in life is finally over after being together for 50 years , this happened on the 4th of December and I have had a terrible Christmas and to make matters worse it would had been her birthday today as there were only six weeks in our ages , at the moment I still cannot believe this is happening but they say think of the good times and we had that many I don't think at the moment it would help , but we will get there as this happen to someone else every day of think so I know what they are going through .

Sorry about the gloomy post and thanks for your offers of help and support and I am sorry if I have missed anyone out 

[oowee]

So sorry to read this. What a good life to celebrate. My condolences. 

[Lloyd90]

1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

 

@Lloyd90 ask yourself what it is that other nations do differently that enable them to pay equivalent experience doctors more. The answer, by the way, is demonstrably not throw more money at the problem. Other nations spend less per head on healthcare & get way better outcomes, without sacrificing those who can’t afford healthcare.

High time the NHS in its current form was put to sleep.

 

I don’t think paying the staff less will solve the problem. 
 

I think one way to address some of the many complex issues would be to do away with lots of things as we simply can’t afford to have the current level of service people want for the cost involved. 
 

Managing expectations. 
 

The expectation of public services from the public is significantly higher than what is being delivered a lot of the time and the vast vast majority of people who claim they’ve “paid my stamp all my life” haven’t paid in very much at all, and are a net drain on the system.
 

The Police are having a big push in this regard, Right Person Right Care is being rolled out across the country, pulling people away from public demands on them and focusing on Police work. 
 

One example I had just the other day, a woman had phoned / text her dad but he hadn’t replied. Only a few hours had passed. She called us in the emergency social services team to ask if we could go check on him, just in case. She said she doesn’t live in the area. 
 

Expecting her to say she lived on the other side of the country I asked her where she was from, she lived in Bristol and her dad in Weston (roughly 30 minutes away). 
 

I decline and told her to do it herself. The police get hundreds of calls like this a day. As do the ambulance and NHS services. 
 

 

[12gauge82]

Thankyou Lloyd and John.

And for confirming regards Police and strike action I was aware of not being allowed to strike with prison officers.

[oowee]

@marsh man Very sorry to read that. A life together to be treasured. My condolences. 

[Penelope]

1 hour ago, marsh man said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Many THANKS for all kind words and it shows we have got a lot of caring members who like me are soft at heart . I thought I was pretty hard and could put up with most things in life but losing my wife have left me a total wreck with tears streaming down my face while I am trying to type this out .

We first set our eyes on other in 1959 when we were in the same classroom at senior school , we both left in 63 and went our separate ways and we met up again a few years later when I came out of the R N , we had plenty to talk about and we hit it off right from the start , this carried on for the next three years until we finally tied the knot in 1977 , looking back we had a marriage that most people could only dream of , she was interested in everything I done and came Pigeon shooting with me and for rows out in my gun punts and she thought the world of all the Labradors I had , we lived in our first house 40 years the week we moved and we only decided to move to have a bigger garden , we moved into our present bungalow around 7 years ago and to us it was our ideal home , garden in the front and a fairly big garden at the back and I was only a mile or so from my shooting grounds , we were both contented and very happy with life.

The last day we had together was no different from most of our Sundays , one week we shop local and the next week we have a run up to North Norfolk , our last day was shopping local and my routine is taking my dog for a walk down the marsh while she was filling up the shopping trolley , this happened in the two shops we went in and she was fine , we came home and had a cuppa before I done the tea , I forgot what I done but it looked alright and we both sat at the table eating it when she said she had a pain in her side and felt a bit sick , I got her a bowl and she just brought up some water , I told her to go and lay down for an hour which she did , as the night wore on she seemed alright and took one painkiller and I went to bed around 11.30 , a little while later I heard her get out of bed and I asked her where she was going and she said the toilet , I said do you want me to come with you and she said no I will be alright , as it turned out these were the last words we said to each other , she got back into bed and I was beside her with my arm half over her and I remember feeling her arm was cold and I put it under the covers.

I woke up around 6.30 and she laid on her side with her eyes half open , I got hold of her hand and kept repeating , wake up Ann , wake up Ann louder and louder and I knew in my mind that our journey in life is finally over after being together for 50 years , this happened on the 4th of December and I have had a terrible Christmas and to make matters worse it would had been her birthday today as there were only six weeks in our ages , at the moment I still cannot believe this is happening but they say think of the good times and we had that many I don't think at the moment it would help , but we will get there as this happen to someone else every day of think so I know what they are going through .

Sorry about the gloomy post and thanks for your offers of help and support and I am sorry if I have missed anyone out 

Jesus John!! So sorry to read this. Your wife was a lovely women and made me very welcome when I visited a few years ago.

[Old Boggy]

1 hour ago, marsh man said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Many THANKS for all kind words and it shows we have got a lot of caring members who like me are soft at heart . I thought I was pretty hard and could put up with most things in life but losing my wife have left me a total wreck with tears streaming down my face while I am trying to type this out .

We first set our eyes on other in 1959 when we were in the same classroom at senior school , we both left in 63 and went our separate ways and we met up again a few years later when I came out of the R N , we had plenty to talk about and we hit it off right from the start , this carried on for the next three years until we finally tied the knot in 1977 , looking back we had a marriage that most people could only dream of , she was interested in everything I done and came Pigeon shooting with me and for rows out in my gun punts and she thought the world of all the Labradors I had , we lived in our first house 40 years the week we moved and we only decided to move to have a bigger garden , we moved into our present bungalow around 7 years ago and to us it was our ideal home , garden in the front and a fairly big garden at the back and I was only a mile or so from my shooting grounds , we were both contented and very happy with life.

The last day we had together was no different from most of our Sundays , one week we shop local and the next week we have a run up to North Norfolk , our last day was shopping local and my routine is taking my dog for a walk down the marsh while she was filling up the shopping trolley , this happened in the two shops we went in and she was fine , we came home and had a cuppa before I done the tea , I forgot what I done but it looked alright and we both sat at the table eating it when she said she had a pain in her side and felt a bit sick , I got her a bowl and she just brought up some water , I told her to go and lay down for an hour which she did , as the night wore on she seemed alright and took one painkiller and I went to bed around 11.30 , a little while later I heard her get out of bed and I asked her where she was going and she said the toilet , I said do you want me to come with you and she said no I will be alright , as it turned out these were the last words we said to each other , she got back into bed and I was beside her with my arm half over her and I remember feeling her arm was cold and I put it under the covers.

I woke up around 6.30 and she laid on her side with her eyes half open , I got hold of her hand and kept repeating , wake up Ann , wake up Ann louder and louder and I knew in my mind that our journey in life is finally over after being together for 50 years , this happened on the 4th of December and I have had a terrible Christmas and to make matters worse it would had been her birthday today as there were only six weeks in our ages , at the moment I still cannot believe this is happening but they say think of the good times and we had that many I don't think at the moment it would help , but we will get there as this happen to someone else every day of think so I know what they are going through .

Sorry about the gloomy post and thanks for your offers of help and support and I am sorry if I have missed anyone out 

Good afternoon John,

I know how hard that typing the above must have been for you and you have my utmost respect for putting your words and thoughts down for us to see. Once again, I offer my most sincere condolences and having known Ann, I know that a part of you has now gone. You have many happy memories which I sincerely hope that you can draw some solace from. Like others have said, If there`s anything that I can do, please do not hesitate to ask. Keep strong my friend.

Kindest regards,

Chris