Changes To The General Licence

[mrcunnie]

Try googling Tony juniper, some interesting facts there , they've put an activist in charge of NE . After the chaos he's caused i hope he loses his job.

[JDog]

5 minutes ago, mrcunnie said:

Try googling Tony juniper, some interesting facts there , they've put an activist in charge of NE . After the chaos he's caused i hope he loses his job.

Do pigeon and crow shooters really believe that Juniper played no part in allowing Wild Justice to challenge Natural England over the matter of the General licence. He will have had involvement from the day he was given the job.

Will the same shooters ever understand that Natural England is led and staffed by people with no understanding of country matters and can therefore never be relied on to give satisfaction with regards to pigeon and corvid shooting.

Michael Gove is already allied to Wild Justice and he too can not be relied on to do the right thing.

[Swarovski]

It's a conspiracy by the anti's and snowflakes to ruin shooting in this country every way possible.

Fortunately they did not succeed with the 50 cal ban a few months back, as usual they got there facts wrong. The shotgun contingency is way way bigger than the firearms shooting.

Our governing bodies need to join forces and nip it in the bud asap.

Sack all the dogooders and snowflakes and have a portion of shooters running the likes of NE so we have somebody on our side otherwise we're peeing into the wind, fighting among ourselves isn't going to sort anything...

All this is a pile of poo.....

[Neverforget]

typical, i have never seen as many crows and pigeons in the field opposite me since this ban has come in its as if they know

[Davetyler]

Its **** law we will all be doing the same. Ive never really had big numbers around my land bit guarantee il show my face today and there be loads

[Pigeon Shredder.]

42 minutes ago, mrcunnie said:

Try googling Tony juniper, some interesting facts there , they've put an activist in charge of NE . After the chaos he's caused i hope he loses his job.

Just read his back history, interesting little chap when it comes to being praised as “the eco warrior” and then placed in his position in NE, if he knew nothing of WJ’s plot l’ll be voting Conservative next time out. 🤫

[bluesj]

One thing about defra getting the job is they do know about stocking levels or as least that such a thing exists, so may realise that numbers of pests is the biggest cause of problems. If numbers can be controlled then the problems cause are controlled 

[bavarianbrit]

Perhaps the government will be again forced to supply pest shooters with free cartridges as was in those golden olden days? Kind of a farmers subsidy.

[Neverforget]

only good thing that has come from this is no one has said owt about BREXIT

[old'un]

11 hours ago, Davetyler said:

Say old un you wouldnt mind if o used this as a template as i am no good at writing emails and not sound thick lmao

 

Feel free to use and change if you wish.

[Davetyler]

Thank you, if i cant hit it with a hammer i am useless haha wording has never been a strong point of mine 

1 minute ago, old'un said:

Feel free to use and change if you wish.

 

[silver fox 1]

1 hour ago, JDog said:

Do pigeon and crow shooters really believe that Juniper played no part in allowing Wild Justice to challenge Natural England over the matter of the General licence. He will have had involvement from the day he was given the job.

Will the same shooters ever understand that Natural England is led and staffed by people with no understanding of country matters and can therefore never be relied on to give satisfaction with regards to pigeon and corvid shooting.

Michael Gove is already allied to Wild Justice and he too can not be relied on to do the right thing.

+1 They don’t have a clue that’s obvious  by The State of the new general license,  pigeons with outstretched wings  White bars showing to scare other birds off  absolutely clueless the mind boggles 

[ShootingEgg]

2 hours ago, JDog said:

 

Michael Gove is already allied to Wild Justice and he too can not be relied on to do the right thing.

Back stabbing career politician. Dont trust him at all. 

[Guest]

For what it’s worth have just emailed this to DEFRA

 

Dear Sir,

 

As requested, here are my thoughts on the questions

 

1) Your views on the alternatives to killing or taking a specific bird species for:

 

Conserving flora and fauna

Preserving public health or safety

Preventing serious damage or disease (serious damage relates to serious damage to livestock, foodstuffs for livestock, crops, vegetables, fruit, growing timber fisheries or inland waters) In particular, what are these alternatives and to which bird species do they relate? In your experience or evidence, how effective and practicable are they?

 

I shoot Wood Pigeon for local farmers and have done so for many years. All of the farmers use gas guns, scarecrows, flags etc to try and help the problem of Wood Pigeon attacking their crops. These methods are ineffective as after a couple of days, the birds get used to them and return. I have witnessed Wood Pigeon landing and feeding by scarecrows and flags and although the gas guns will make them take off, they will return within minutes or fly to another part of the field to continue feeding.

 

The problem is once the birds decide they are going to eat on a particular crop, it doesn’t matter what method you use, they will continue to feed. By shooting them, you at least reduce the amount of birds causing damage and for every bird shot, that is one less that will go on to breed. Any shooter will tell you that they will not hit every target and a return of 1 kill for 2 shots fired is a very decent return. When missing, the birds will fly away but only to return.

 

The Wood Pigeon population has increased over the past 40 years and continues to do so. Without lethal methods to control their numbers throughout the year, including shooting over stubble fields (to stop them feeding on other crops nearby) roost shooting or newly drilled crops, this will lead to unmanageable numbers in the future. Not only will this have a detrimental effect on the farming industry but will also badly impact the birds. With too many birds and not enough to eat, they will begin to starve and become diseased.

 

2) Your experience or evidence of any benefits that were delivered by the three revoked general licences?

3) Your experience or evidence of any problems with or caused by the three revoked general licences. Are there any conditions, in your view, that could be attached to general licences to address these issues?

 

I cannot see any benefits that were delivered by revoking the three licences, especially with such short notice. The GL had been in place and working to keep a balance in the countryside for many years. NE had not been administering it properly in legal terms and this needed to be sorted out at some point but not in the way it was done.

 

The new licence for Wood Pigeon and Carrion Crows which I have read, are over complicated and leave people in doubt as to what they can or cannot do. They seem to be written by lawyers leaving them open to challenges especially where the wording “ reasonable endeavours” is used. Stating that lethal methods should be the last resort is a nonsense. Lethal methods should be used alongside other methods which has been the case for many years and proven to be effective in keeping a balance. If it isn’t broken, why try and fix it? Yes by all means make sure they are legal but keep the basic proven principles in place

 

4) Your experience or evidence of any problems caused by the revocation of the three revoked general licences.

 

At this time of year with spring crops, lambing and nesting birds, revoking the licences at such short notice was poorly thought through and executed without due consideration of the consequences, leaving no protection for the above. The lack of communication via television and radio when the decision made would affect approx 600,000 people within 36 hours could be described as negligent.

 

The misinformation and negative propaganda issued by individuals on television, radio and social media at this time who support the revocation of the licences, without recourse or need for justification should be addressed to allow the public to make an informed view.

 

Xxxxx Xxxxx

Member of the public

[Good shot?]

I would have difficulty adding much, if anything to improve that response to Defra.

Good on you.

[kenholland]

all farmers should sue them if they don't get it back to what it was , the cost is mounting every day, lets hope n f u can get do there bit maybe they will see how valuable we are for crop protection now , I know it is a crazy right now let's hope things will get sorted soon from b a s c and n g o this week.

[turbo33]

The only extra point I would make, is in the BASC "Pest control, the facts" which we have all seen, is that crop damage as an isolation, by pigeons is £115m per year, and thats with as Chris Packham alleges, " The vandalistic killing of millions of birds". Research and maths would give an extraordinary insight into the projected losses over the next calendar year if shooting is not reinstated just for the pigeon alone.

The bigger picture of course, is the loss to the economy, we all know who these are, Farming,, ammunition manufacturers, anything related to shooting, gun manufacturers, clothing, retailers, Pest controllers, suppliers of equipment........the list is endless and the financial implications, hardship, metal health..........

 

One other thing I would add is..........

We have had these feckless climate  change people causing havoc in London at the same time as we, the rural community, have been passively waiting to hear if we can continue legally doing what we do. They on the other hand, have disrupted peoples lives, income, probably cause health hazards, and within two weeks, had Mr Gove eating out of their hands, and listening to their very whim.

The combines aren't needed for a few more weeks, and I know of a very good parking area, beginning with "L" and ending in "N"!

If we don't really start grasping the bull be the horns, it will all be gone.

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by turbo33

[panoma1]

22 minutes ago, turbo33 said:

The only extra point I would make, is in the BASC "Pest control, the facts" which we have all seen, is that crop damage as an isolation, by pigeons is £115m per year, and thats with as Chris Packham alleges, " The vandalistic killing of millions of birds". Research and maths would give an extraordinary insight into the projected losses over the next calendar year if shooting is not reinstated just for the pigeon alone.

The bigger picture of course, is the loss to the economy, we all know who these are, Farming,, ammunition manufacturers, anything related to shooting, gun manufacturers, clothing, retailers, Pest controllers, suppliers of equipment........the list is endless and the financial implications, hardship, metal health..........

 

One other thing I would add is..........

We have had these feckless climate  change people causing havoc in London at the same time as we, the rural community, have been passively waiting to hear if we can continue legally doing what we do. They on the other hand, have disrupted peoples lives, income, probably cause health hazards, and within two weeks, had Mr Gove eating out of their hands, and listening to their very whim.

The combines aren't needed for a few more weeks, and I know of a very good parking area, beginning with "L" and ending in "N"!

If we don't really start grasping the bull be the horns, it will all be gone.

 

The archetypal politician, can't be trusted, because he/she will lean whichever way the wind blows, look after their own interests and protect themselves at all costs from anything that may negatively impact their career and prospects!...……..all off our voting them into power...….no wonder they are so despised by ordinary honest people!

 

[turbo33]

6 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

The archetypal politician, can't be trusted, because he/she will lean whichever way the wind blows, look after their own interests and protect themselves at all costs from anything that may negatively impact their career and prospects!...……..all off our voting them into power...….no wonder they are so despised by ordinary honest people!

 

You are absolutely right of course!!

[turbo33]

Whose old enough to remember Hitchcocks film "The birds"? With the branchers leaving shortly, and 5 times the amount of crows on the Barley, that will be all we need to prove a point.👍

[Ozz]

On 24/04/2019 at 08:11, ShootingEgg said:

Sit on it tomorrow with a cap gun or a packet of blanks?? 

Dont shoot anything anywhere near soya let the birds eat it an the vegans go hungry .90% of them are on the dole crustys and wont be able to afford tjere prossesd **** when the prices go up

[ShootingEgg]

1 hour ago, turbo33 said:

Whose old enough to remember Hitchcocks film "The birds"? With the branchers leaving shortly, and 5 times the amount of crows on the Barley, that will be all we need to prove a point.👍

It is going to be carnage, its proven that we aren't effecting the numbers as they're still increasing, although crows are predated by hawk and owl, the number of theses is far less, and crows will predate on them also. Springwatch will have a name change soon to corvid watch 

[wymberley]

I can see the sense in this provided the revenue generated is used for the ongoing protection and conservation of the species in question. On the other hand, I'm not aware that several bird species in the UK are not similarly endangered, are actually prolific and are doing considerable damage so what's the problem here?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/science-environment-48147245/michael-gove-no-uk-ban-on-trophy-hunt-imports-yet

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, so what is the latest update on these licences ? they issued for crow and now pigeon, what about a general licence for the 16 species, a PW member said they are not going to do a GL 04 ?????  

[JJsDad]

47 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

they issued for crow and now pigeon, what about a general licence for the 16 species,

The old (now revoked) GL04/05 & 06 covered a number of bird specie (16). The cunning plan as put out initially by Natural England(NE) was that individual licences would be issued in due course for each specie, these would be split into one for damage to livestock and a further one covering crop damage, damage to buildings & health etc. Unless things have changed over the Bank Holiday the only one`s issued are for Carrion Crows - to prevent damage to livestock, Canada Geese to prevent crop damage and Pigeon for the same reason. If this plan continues we could end up with around 32 or more licence`s each covering a bird specie and a reason for taking lethal action.

In the light the responsibility for producing these licence`s is now being handed over to DEFRA and Mr Gove is under pressure to sort the whole sorry debacle out, you might see a bit more common sence applied to producing these licence`s; however I wouldnt hold my breath. At least DEFRA is on a fact finding mission and one can but hope our organisations & associations put in a detailed and factual document as to why the licence`s currently issued are unworkable and unfit for purpose.

Due to this hand over of responsibilty from NE to DEFRA, I wouldnt be surprised if there is not a delay while DEFRA get their collective heads around the mess they have been saddled with and start to study the results of their evidence gathering exercise.

Edited May 7, 2019 by JJsDad