greylag Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 Why are people quick to knock BASC.They have jumped on this challenge right from the start.Well done BASC,As has been said previously we would we far worse without them and they could not be more proactive when WJ reared their latest argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 +3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipdog Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 29 minutes ago, B725 said: Why keep knocking BASC they and other's do a lot that we don't see we would be a lot worse off without them. Where would you like me to start? BASC’s is all smoke and mirrors and has proven itself effectively useless against all opposition. They receive millions a year in membership and either save it or wasted it, primarily on jobs for the boys. Look at how effective Wild Justice has been with good management and effective campaigning. IMHO BASC either need to get their finger out, with a radical change in management, or we will continue to loose ground to left wing activist groups. The CA have done significantly more than BASC in trying to protect shooting and that is saying something!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudpatten Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 Where exactly did BASC fail in the General Licence issue? Since Zipdog is a tactical and strategic expert perhaps he`d like to share his vision as to how this latest challenge should be fought so that BASC, and the rest of us, can learn from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B725 Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 I take it your not a BASC member Mr Zipdog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 BASC have done a good job with out them W J would walk all over us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 59 minutes ago, mossy835 said: BASC have done a good job with out them W J would walk all over us. Well they stopped pigeon shooting completely for a while and it is only back until a new set of rules can be drawn up with the input of said group. Now it's game rearing/shooting and make no mistake the outcome of this will be loads of nearly unworkable regulations put in place. And let's not forget one of his favourite gripes grouse shooting. They are already walking all over us and the shooting world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papercase Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, B725 said: Why keep knocking BASC they and other's do a lot that we don't see we would be a lot worse off without them. Best £80 I spend every year, that and GWCT. Worth every penny! Edited July 18, 2019 by Papercase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob525 Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 They are trying, its more than most and they have my full support because of that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) Just seen in my inbox that wj have started a legal challenge to the releasing of game birds. Specifically pheasants and partridge. Edit- I must have been asleep for the last 7 hours or I would have seen this thread (shift work). This is the big one. If they win or manage to ruin this season then how many shoots would be ruined? How many acres of land no longer managed for the benefit of wildlife? (Not that wj care). It would weaken shooting sports beyond recognition in this country. We (all shooters) must take the front foot and promote our pastime or it will be lost. Regardless or whether you punch holes in paper, game or pigeons. Edited July 18, 2019 by GingerCat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver fox 1 Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 13 hours ago, Novice said: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/18/release-of-non-native-game-birds-to-be-challenged-in-court I'm sure no one saw this coming... 13 hours ago, WestonSalop said: Here we go again...…………. 👍🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scutt Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 (edited) B.A.S.C. should not stand alone on this ,all interested parties must get together including game farm owners feed producers cartridge manufacturers every one who is involved in the money that the shoots turnover. So I would like to see a joined up united team challenge these WJ may be this is already happening if not then one of our shooting associations should be making this a reality and earn the fees paid to them . TO show knock on effect of a ban on game bird rearing and release I start a list. the suppliers of sheds, timber, fencing, feed, medication, incubators, transport ,gas and so on . Edited July 19, 2019 by scutt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 was reading on the Avery blog that crowd funding allows that if you loose a case there is a ceiling of £10 thousand cost's.. so small change.. why don't pro shooting exponents initiate some crowd funding. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greylag Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 BASC will not be fighting this alone,as with the general licence nonsense it was a combined effort from all the various shooting organisations that got things moving.They will be be exchanging information to fight this legal challenge if it comes our way.The people who are quick to knock BASC or other organisations fail to give any constructive arguments to fight these constant attacks on our way of life.Without the backup of legal departments and wildlife expertise ,conservation experts and various other departments we would be wiped out in next to no time.Eighty pounds very well spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 18 hours ago, panoma1 said: Does this mean it was, and is, illegal to release any species, for whatever reason, not naturally found living in the wild in the UK? Would this not include any species sourced from other countries and released into the UK? Species which were formerly, but are no longer found (are extinct) in the wild in the UK? Would this not include ALL species of flora and fauna, not native to the UK, which have been imported into this country and become established in the wild?....... Would this not impact on rewilding? And the introduction into the wild of species not (no longer!) native to the UK such as Lynx, Sea Eagles, Red Kite, Beaver etc, etc? I like your thinking!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClemFandango Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, panoma1 said: Does this mean it was, and is, illegal to release any species, for whatever reason, not naturally found living in the wild in the UK? Would this not include any species sourced from other countries and released into the UK? Species which were formerly, but are no longer found (are extinct) in the wild in the UK? Would this not include ALL species of flora and fauna, not native to the UK, which have been imported into this country and become established in the wild?....... Would this not impact on rewilding? And the introduction into the wild of species not (no longer!) native to the UK such as Lynx, Sea Eagles, Red Kite, Beaver etc, etc? Nope. All the species you mention are released under license after a lengthy application procedure. Releasing pheasants is totally unlicensed. That is their point. It even says that in their statement. Edited July 19, 2019 by ClemFandango Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, ClemFandango said: Nope. All the species you mention are released under license after a lengthy application procedure. Releasing pheasants is totally unlicensed. That is their point. It even says that in their statement. I realise this, but due mostly to conservation concerns, many people in the UK don't support releasing extinct (in the UK) species into the wild in the UK, any more than Packham, Avery and Tingay like the releasing of Pheasant and partridge into the wild in the UK.....the difference is Packham, Avery and Tingay are forcing the issue via the legal system, not because of conservation concerns, but to covertly attack the lawful pastime of shooting... Edited July 19, 2019 by panoma1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClemFandango Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 1 minute ago, panoma1 said: I realise this, but due mostly to conservation concerns, many people in the UK don't like the idea of releasing extinct (in the UK) species into the wild in the UK, any more than Packham, Avery and Tingay like the idea of releasing Pheasant and partridge into the wild in the UK.....the difference is Packham, Avery and Tingay are forcing the issue via the legal system, not because of conservation concerns, but to covertly attack the lawful pastime of shooting... Yeah I see that but it doesn't really wash as an argument, one outcome might be thay we would have to apply for a licence to release pheasants, just as you would have to to release any other species. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, ClemFandango said: Yeah I see that but it doesn't really wash as an argument, one outcome might be thay we would have to apply for a licence to release pheasants, just as you would have to to release any other species. I realise that too!.......my original posting was rhetorical, born out of an opinion/observation, more than the basis of an argument! Edited July 19, 2019 by panoma1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClemFandango Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 1 minute ago, panoma1 said: I realise that too!.......it was question born out of an opinion/observation, more than the basis of an argument! Fair enough. I am absolutely in favour of pheasant shooting but I can see the argument WJ are making too. There is a tally on here of how many Grey Squirrels are shot annually by PW members. A non-native species that has a negative impact on it's surrounding environment and species such as songbirds. Then we release a non-native species that can have a detrimental impact on it's surroundings and other species. Then we dump tonnes of feed into the environment to allow that species to live which creates an artificial food resource for pest species such as grey squirrels which we spend time and money trying to eradicate because they are a non native species. look at it objectively and it sounds a bit bonkers to me. All that said. Shooting is a legitimate land use that can be carried out in conjunction with a variety of other land uses, it can contribute to the local and wider economy, it provides jobs and supports livelihoods. Arguably it also socially supports vulnerable people in isolated rural communities (I am thinking retirees etc who come beating). Although it may have some detrimental effects to the landscape these are matched, possibly outweighed by the benefits of the habitat creation and management that inevitably goes along with it. Show me any other commercial land use that doesn't have a negative effect on the land it occupies but also contributes economically and socially to the community it serves? I think that challenges like this are good in the long run, we need to evolve and improve if the way of life we love is to continue. We need to be more realistic about the positive and negative impacts of our actions and how we mitigate them. Similarly organisations like WJ need to realise that they have more to gain by working with us rather than fighting us. £40,000 towards conservation or habitat creation could go a long way if directed by someone with the time and passion to drive it and the knowledge and backround to implement it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 ClemFandango, On re-reading my original posting, rather than asking "would" perhaps I should have written "should"? Lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjimlad Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 3 hours ago, islandgun said: was reading on the Avery blog that crowd funding allows that if you loose a case there is a ceiling of £10 thousand cost's.. so small change.. why don't pro shooting exponents initiate some crowd funding. ? I cannot find reference to a limit on paying only £10,000 of the opponent's costs if you lose your case and are crowd-funded.. but I was wondering if BASC should launch a similar donation scheme, I would be very happy to contribute especially after their prompt action on the earlier GL challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, arjimlad said: I cannot find reference to a limit on paying only £10,000 of the opponent's costs if you lose your case and are crowd-funded.. but I was wondering if BASC should launch a similar donation scheme, I would be very happy to contribute especially after their prompt action on the earlier GL challenge. I am not against the proposition............but do we not already crowdfund via our membership subscriptions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClemFandango Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 31 minutes ago, panoma1 said: ClemFandango, On re-reading my original posting, rather than asking "would" perhaps I should have written "should"? Lol! I couldn't find a like button. Have a couple of emoji's 😁😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 11 minutes ago, panoma1 said: I am not against the proposition............but do we not already crowdfund via our membership subscriptions? Is my memory at fault again, or is there/was there not a BASC Fighting Fund from some time back that might just have the £ or two in the bottom of the bag still? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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