Lead ban & BASC

[Old farrier]

15 minutes ago, PeterHenry said:

For what it was worth, I called BASC today and let the poor woman at the end of the phone know in no uncertain terms what I thought of this mess. I was polite, and didnt direct anything towards her personally, but ensured that she knew how utterly let down I feel by the organisation that I pay to protect our sport, and further, how entirely inept they have been.

 

In my stupidity I thought that it was a given that this would have been discussed with cartridge manufacturer's - who, afterall, does not bother to seek counsel with the pepole upon who your assertions rest before they make a statement bound to be picked up by, and indeed pushed upon the national press and those who actively wish to do us harm?

 

If I had done something of this magnitude at work, I would not be asked to leave, I would have been escorted from the building. 

Not only you that’s thought they would have consulted the cartridge manufacturers and members of the gun trade 

[Dave at kelton]

And SACS latest

View this email in your browser SACS CLARIFICATION STATEMENT ON LEAD SHOT Dear SACS Member, Following the cartridge manufacturer's joint statement today, SACS wishes to clarify that it is our understanding that cartridge manufacturers were consulted on the proposed five-year transition from lead shot in live quarry shooting with shotguns. Please find below our full clarification statement. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact SACS Director Alex Stoddart on 07879 550750. Best wishes, The SACS Team

[rbrowning2]

Done

https://redleafaccountancy.wufoo.com/forms/x3lqcvv0ms9ixs/?fbclid=IwAR2X3zMzqwQSxrFFdr3VSq5qvvm1Wqxt8SJcug_83MKvAiF1T5NPimK9vr4

all basc members should do likewise we need around 1500 for the special AGM to be called.

 

Just now, Old farrier said:

Not only you that’s thought they would have consulted the cartridge manufacturers and members of the gun trade 

Even the trade are publicly attracting basc on the basc Facebook pages for not consulting with them,

[Zapp]

1 minute ago, Dave at kelton said:

And SACS latest

View this email in your browser SACS CLARIFICATION STATEMENT ON LEAD SHOT Dear SACS Member, Following the cartridge manufacturer's joint statement today, SACS wishes to clarify that it is our understanding that cartridge manufacturers were consulted on the proposed five-year transition from lead shot in live quarry shooting with shotguns. Please find below our full clarification statement. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact SACS Director Alex Stoddart on 07879 550750. Best wishes, The SACS Team

Dear lord.  What a mess.

 

1 minute ago, rbrowning2 said:

Done

https://redleafaccountancy.wufoo.com/forms/x3lqcvv0ms9ixs/?fbclid=IwAR2X3zMzqwQSxrFFdr3VSq5qvvm1Wqxt8SJcug_83MKvAiF1T5NPimK9vr4

all basc members should do likewise we need around 1500 for the special AGM to be called.

 

Signed 

[Teal]

Unbelievable. Couldn't make this up. Wish it was a bad dream. 

I'm actually in favour of the phasing in of mainstream steel and other lead alternatives, even was the first person in Northern Ireland to buy the eley steel ecowads, but this whole thing is a complete mess. Entirely created by our own organisations.

Whoever thought it was a good idea to not consult either their membership, the industry or the shooting community prior to the announcement, is an idiot. They are not fit to represent shooters in this country.

[PeterHenry]

14 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

https://redleafaccountancy.wufoo.com/forms/x3lqcvv0ms9ixs/?fbclid=IwAR2X3zMzqwQSxrFFdr3VSq5qvvm1Wqxt8SJcug_83MKvAiF1T5NPimK9vr4
 

petition to call a basc EGM 

Signed.

[johnnytheboy]

I was in one of the UKs biggest gunshops and I listened to an interesting argument, that we all should fight a lead shot ban, for as long as possible, the reasoning presented behind that was that the ordinary working man who shoots now and again might not be able to afford a steel proofed gun and that the day a lead shot ban arrives it’s only the more affluent members of the community that can afford to take part. Then as a general rule of thumb it’s easier for the general public to put pressure on us as it’s a class vote, it become like fox hunting, the general public are just voting against posh ***** in their perception! 

Seems like a reasonable argument! 

Then today I get an email offering BASC discount on a £50000 Maserati 

Where is the working man in all this? 

[Centrepin]

10 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

Done

https://redleafaccountancy.wufoo.com/forms/x3lqcvv0ms9ixs/?fbclid=IwAR2X3zMzqwQSxrFFdr3VSq5qvvm1Wqxt8SJcug_83MKvAiF1T5NPimK9vr4

all basc members should do likewise we need around 1500 for the special AGM to be called.

 

Even the trade are publicly attracting basc on the basc Facebook pages for not consulting with them,

Done

[silver fox 1]

21 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

https://redleafaccountancy.wufoo.com/forms/x3lqcvv0ms9ixs/?fbclid=IwAR2X3zMzqwQSxrFFdr3VSq5qvvm1Wqxt8SJcug_83MKvAiF1T5NPimK9vr4
 

petition to call a basc EGM 

Done

[Old farrier]

Question 

how do you get lead shot banned Along with plastic wads devalue half the guns in the country and make the others obsolete Along with destroying the rural economy and bankrupting small businesses nationwide 

answer get a job at Basc 

 

[silver fox 1]

1 minute ago, Old farrier said:

Question 

how do you get lead shot banned Along with plastic wads devalue half the guns in the country and make the others obsolete Along with destroying the rural economy and bankrupting small businesses nationwide 

answer get a job at Basc 

 

 It seems like somebody already has 

[scolopax]

Just the cartridge manufacturers having a good whinge about getting pushed into something they do not want to do, after all it will cost them money in R&D, new equipment etc to develop the new wads required if we are to go both non tox and no plastic at the same time. They do have a very valid point about the current CIP pressure limitations, if we are to use steel in particular these need changing so that we can use HV steel like the Danes and the US. Never the less it would appear that in the short term we can go to steel but will have to stick with plas wads, especially if using small bores, until a full range of non plastic wads are developed for steel/ hard shot.

I quite like the idea of plas wads being made a hi vis colour like orange or blue (no reds or pinks please i'm coluor blind), they are not impossible to pick up with a bit of effort as it is and a easily seen colour will only help in recovery

 

[Old farrier]

5 minutes ago, silver fox 1 said:

 It seems like somebody already has 

Makes you feel like there’s a anti working there (Not the first time) 

not a bad achievement for the stroke of a pen 

[rbrowning2]

9 minutes ago, scolopax said:

Just the cartridge manufacturers having a good whinge about getting pushed into something they do not want to do, after all it will cost them money in R&D, new equipment etc to develop the new wads required if we are to go both non tox and no plastic at the same time. They do have a very valid point about the current CIP pressure limitations, if we are to use steel in particular these need changing so that we can use HV steel like the Danes and the US. Never the less it would appear that in the short term we can go to steel but will have to stick with plas wads, especially if using small bores, until a full range of non plastic wads are developed for steel/ hard shot.

I quite like the idea of plas wads being made a hi vis colour like orange or blue (no reds or pinks please i'm coluor blind), they are not impossible to pick up with a bit of effort as it is and a easily seen colour will only help in recovery

 

I would be surprised if even all the UK cartridge manufactures  combined together they would have the resources to create a biodegradable plastic wad, bioammo the new Spanish company need an 8 million euro grant to get up and running, express accounts showed their operating profits were 29.2% down last year. It could be many years of R&D to create the correct plastic and they would start from scratch they are cartridge manufactures not scientists working in the world of plastics.  Not even the wad manufactures like B&P or Gualandi have achieved it yet. Hence why they say they are hopping the plastics industry in general crack the problem.

Edited February 28, 2020 by rbrowning2

[grahamch]

23 minutes ago, PeterHenry said:

Signed.

Not a good idea to go for an sgm. We need to pull together to sort this and not factionalise or have witch hunts or the Packham **** and his cohorts will be all over us. Wasn't just BASC who made a monumental cock up

[silver fox 1]

8 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Makes you feel like there’s a anti working there (Not the first time) 

not a bad achievement for the stroke of a pen 

 You couldn’t make this up,  The only comfort we have got is it’s a voluntary ban  at the moment 

[clangerman]

1 minute ago, grahamch said:

Not a good idea to go for an sgm. We need to pull together to sort this and not factionalise or have witch hunts or the Packham **** and his cohorts will be all over us. Wasn't just BASC who made a monumental cock up

a good point sacs could and should have confirmed consultation had taken place and they better have a good explanation ready tomorrow when i ring them why they did not do so passing the buck is a shabby response 

[Teal]

8 minutes ago, grahamch said:

Not a good idea to go for an sgm. We need to pull together to sort this and not factionalise or have witch hunts or the Packham **** and his cohorts will be all over us. Wasn't just BASC who made a monumental cock up

I can't understand this, why would you want the ones who have done this still to be at the top? That'd be madness. It's entirely their (shooting orgs) mess, that they have created. No one else can get the blame.

[matone]

57 minutes ago, silver fox 1 said:

 Interesting times ahead that’s for sure.  My dilemma is whether I should be funding my organisation or not,  I guess this is a personal matter and I will be giving it some thought and some time  for now anyway 

Many of us have the same dilemma! I`ve always thought that BASC were our only viable org to try and protect our interests and indeed have said the same on here before.

But now........

[silver fox 1]

5 minutes ago, grahamch said:

Not a good idea to go for an sgm. We need to pull together to sort this and not factionalise or have witch hunts or the Packham **** and his cohorts will be all over us. Wasn't just BASC who made a monumental cock up

 100%  agree but there  has been a lot of hole digging And it would seem our organisations have gone off half cocked  that’s not a good  either  makes you wonder what next  

[Westley]

I watched the B.A.S.C. Northern Rep. making a pathetic excuse of an explanation of the situation,  on You Tube this morning.

[rbrowning2]

4 minutes ago, Teal said:

I can't understand this, why would you want the ones who have done this still to be at the top? That'd be madness. It's entirely their (shooting orgs) mess, that they have created. No one else can get the blame.

Well said their needs to some accountability if need be basc can bring the gun trade association along to the meeting.

 

below is the history of the pva water soluble wads eley are using it has taken nine years to get to where we are today with them and lots of eu money. 

https://watersoluble.green-cycles.com/2012/10/01/plasticos-hidrosolubles-aiju-develop-hunting-cartridge-wads-based-on-pva-biodegradable-materials/

[mossy835]

all the orgs could do nothing to stop it.so they had to go with it, just like the medical the police want.

[JohnfromUK]

11 minutes ago, grahamch said:

Not a good idea to go for an sgm. We need to pull together to sort this and not factionalise or have witch hunts or the Packham **** and his cohorts will be all over us. Wasn't just BASC who made a monumental cock up

The key things for an egm are;

• What is the agenda? (i.e. what is to be achieved)
• Can you realistically 'get your way' (i.e. carry enough votes)
• If looking to remove personnel - is/are there  'better' replacement(s) lined up and willing to stand for election?

Without these it will not achieve anything.

[Dibble]

41 minutes ago, johnnytheboy said:

Then today I get an email offering BASC discount on a £50000 Maserati 

Where is the working man in all this? 

Has anyone ever used one of these BASC Car discounts and was it a better deal than they could cut for themselves? How many members actually even buy a new car each year?

Yet we get several pages in the magazine every month devoted to them.