Multiple Stabbings in Reading, three dead...

[Rewulf]

31 minutes ago, Mice! said:

The fact this man had already been sent to prison means he should loose the right to remain in our country,  no appeal you have broken the law your gone, now that would get the support of the British people.

It already did, thats why we have the government we have, a government that promised to change things , not just keep flogging the same dead horse, and slamming the same stable door..

This man was granted asylum AFTER  he had committed many crimes, and been imprisoned for some of them, and thats not right.
Try doing that sort of ---- in just about any other country besides most of your 'liberal' EU ones.
This level of weakness leads to national decay, on all kinds of levels, social unhappiness and people screaming about the rise of the far right ect.
They are feeding it with their utter stupidity, and desire to look progressive.

[Scully]

I’m not really interested in why he was here, what his race is nor his religion.
What really really gets my goat is that yet again three people have had no choice but to play the role of victim, because of generations of governmental policy of making it illegal for law abiding UK citizens to carry any meaningful capacity to protect themselves. 
Remember, when seconds count those police are only MINUTES  away. 👍

[oowee]

On 21/06/2020 at 08:33, ShootingEgg said:

Told to shut up then I guess? Or they actually dont know what it was so now retracting initial report... 

BBC were just reportuing the facts. First he was arrested not terror related and BBC reported that its not thought to be a terror related act. Later he was re arrested under terror acts and BBC changed report to reflect the change. Good on BBC for not jumping to conclusions I say. 

That said if these peop'scome and seek asylum and have previous they should be out. I can't see leaving the EU or otherwise making any difference to the rules that we can apply, it's the lack of willingness to apply firm control that is more of an issue than the rules we have. 

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, oowee said:

That said if these peop'scome and seek asylum and have previous they should be out. I can't see leaving the EU or otherwise making any difference to the rules that we can apply, it's the lack of willingness to apply firm control that is more of an issue than the rules we have. 

So the ECHR had nothing to do with keeping the likes of qatada, hamza  and his ilk in the UK , on benefits, and still spouting hate ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Othman_(Abu_Qatada)_v_United_Kingdom

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/11/15/why-britain-usually-obeys-the-european-court-of-human-rights/

Do these Isis recruits, hate preachers, child rapists and other assorted scum , not use the ECHR as a weapon against deportation ?
Being in the EU, enables the ECJ/ECHR  to hold sway over British law , quite often we dont contest defence, as we know it will cost literally millions to fight it through to an unsure ending.
THIS is another reason why we are where we are today regarding Brexit , and a tory government.
Because the majority of the people have had enough of being hamstrung by Brussels.

 

[Rim Fire]

i don't get involved in this type if discussion because i get frustrated but once again priti patel saying we will learn from our mistakes how many ....... mistakes and loss of innocent life is it going to take before this government (not just this government) will wake up and grow a pair 

Edited June 22, 2020 by Rim Fire

[oowee]

34 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

So the ECHR had nothing to do with keeping the likes of qatada, hamza  and his ilk in the UK , on benefits, and still spouting hate ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Othman_(Abu_Qatada)_v_United_Kingdom

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/11/15/why-britain-usually-obeys-the-european-court-of-human-rights/

Do these Isis recruits, hate preachers, child rapists and other assorted scum , not use the ECHR as a weapon against deportation ?
Being in the EU, enables the ECJ/ECHR  to hold sway over British law , quite often we dont contest defence, as we know it will cost literally millions to fight it through to an unsure ending.
THIS is another reason why we are where we are today regarding Brexit , and a tory government.
Because the majority of the people have had enough of being hamstrung by Brussels.

 

More an issue of application and resource, according to the Governments own report of 2017 .

There are a number of mechanisms for removing an individual’s immigration status. Where someone has been granted Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) or refugee status in the UK either may be “cancelled” or “revoked” if the person is found to have obtained it fraudulently, or in certain situations if they are convicted of a serious crime, or judged by the Home Secretary to pose a threat to national security. These grounds may be also used to “deprive” a person of their citizenship, where this has been acquired through naturalisation or registration.8 Additionally, refugees may have their refugee status “ceased” if conditions in their country of origin have changed sufficiently for them no longer to need protection. 3.2 While the terminology and the grounds may vary, the effect is the same: the individual becomes liable to removal from the UK,9 or to refusal of entry if outside the country at the time. 

However, this should not be taken as proof that a “stage by stage” process is intrinsically more efficient than an “end to end” one. There are pros and cons to both, and elsewhere CC’s failure to establish clear and continuous “ownership” of Foreign National Offender (FNO) cases was not only inefficient but ineffective at managing significant risks.11 3.8 Certain things need to be in place for either approach to work well: caseworkers (and managers) need clarity of purpose; everyone needs to be properly trained and supported until “fully effective”, and to have realistic performance targets that are fairly applied. Management must know at all times what cases are in the ‘Work in Progress’ (WiP) queue, what stage each is at, what action is required to progress each case, who is responsible for this, when it should be completed; where there are problems or blockages, these must be identified and dealt with quickly. 3.9 In the case of SRU, some of these were missing. The unit’s piecemeal growth had led to a lack of clear purpose and business objectives. Staff provided various descriptions of what they understood the purpose of the unit to be. Some thought of themselves as nationality caseworkers, some as asylum caseworkers, and others as fraud investigators. Meanwhile, the process for prioritising cases referred to the unit resulted in the majority of cases falling out of sight until and unless they became the subject of an enquiry or complaint; and, individual caseloads were too big, making it difficult for caseworkers and managers to monitor case progress, a problem made significantly worse by the caseworkers’ non-compliant practice of maintaining electronic case records on their personal drives. 3.10 Unsurprisingly, therefore, SRU’s “end to end” process was inefficient.

[Rewulf]

10 minutes ago, oowee said:

There are a number of mechanisms for removing an individual’s immigration status.

Im sure there are...in UK law.
But as we have come to realise , UK law is often trumped by EU law...

Can you cite a single case where the procedures outlined above have been used successfully ?
Quite often Im assuming , started, but not finished , because the lawyers acting for HM Gov have realised the case will not survive a hearing through ECHR ?

[oowee]

Just reporting what the Governments own report says. Far better sticking to the governments facts rather than picking out bits of carp that neither of us understand so well, don't you think? 🙂 

[Old farrier]

Just thinking out loud here 

3 people are dead and I feel for there families 

now here’s the hard question 

Are these deaths terrorist or racial Or just plain murder 

I ask as I may need to change some of my insurance 

they don’t pay out on act’s of war or terrorisim 

 

[Dave-G]

5 hours ago, Walker570 said:

We really should demand a list of all the people responsible for allowing this rubbish to remain in this country. Somebody should be held responsible.

I think they'd be mostly Labour and Lib Dem.

[Rewulf]

21 minutes ago, oowee said:

Just reporting what the Governments own report says. Far better sticking to the governments facts rather than picking out bits of carp that neither of us understand so well, don't you think? 🙂 

The governments 'facts' are hardly going to cite the ECHR as a reason for its failure to protect its populace are they?

Having said that , you asked the question of how leaving the EU would benefit the way we deal with deportations and such, I gave you the answer IMHO , Im not sure it was the answer you wanted to hear...
No doubt what YOU believe, is that its a failure of the tory government, nothing to do with EU meddling, or the liberal progressives at the heart of Brussels doctrine ?
If we had a labour government, who would you level the blame at then ?
The 'far' right ? Kippers ? Or some such thing ?

[Raja Clavata]

Three innocents brutally murdered, others scarred for life, family and friends whose lives will never be the same again.

Why can't we just, for now, be angry with the scumbag who did this and anyone who sympathises with him - no need to politicise this, surely...

[Dave-G]

This won't get politicised much because its white deaths.

[JohnfromUK]

Interesting viewpoint;  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8447049/Obsession-catching-far-right-extremists-diverting-police-stopping-dangerous-jihadis.html

[wishy735]

34 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

This won't get politicised much because its white deaths.

And just how true is that.

[AVB]

1 hour ago, Dave-G said:

This won't get politicised much because its white deaths.

At least two of the men were gay. I am not surprised that it isn’t being made out to be homophobic. 

[sam triple]

Not been thru all replies on here but as yet there seems to be no rioting in major cities across the globe stating white lives matter 

[AVB]

28 minutes ago, sam triple said:

Not been thru all replies on here but as yet there seems to be no rioting in major cities across the globe stating white lives matter 

There was a banner flown above the Man City vs Burnley game stating “white lives matter Burnley”. Burnley FC have condemned it. The lefties onTwitter are going in to meltdown over this ‘racist’ act. 

[Saltings]

7 hours ago, Dave-G said:

This won't get politicised much because its white deaths.

the truth right there      what a tragedy 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Saltings

[12gauge82]

18 hours ago, oowee said:

More an issue of application and resource, according to the Governments own report of 2017 .

There are a number of mechanisms for removing an individual’s immigration status. Where someone has been granted Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) or refugee status in the UK either may be “cancelled” or “revoked” if the person is found to have obtained it fraudulently, or in certain situations if they are convicted of a serious crime, or judged by the Home Secretary to pose a threat to national security. These grounds may be also used to “deprive” a person of their citizenship, where this has been acquired through naturalisation or registration.8 Additionally, refugees may have their refugee status “ceased” if conditions in their country of origin have changed sufficiently for them no longer to need protection. 3.2 While the terminology and the grounds may vary, the effect is the same: the individual becomes liable to removal from the UK,9 or to refusal of entry if outside the country at the time. 

However, this should not be taken as proof that a “stage by stage” process is intrinsically more efficient than an “end to end” one. There are pros and cons to both, and elsewhere CC’s failure to establish clear and continuous “ownership” of Foreign National Offender (FNO) cases was not only inefficient but ineffective at managing significant risks.11 3.8 Certain things need to be in place for either approach to work well: caseworkers (and managers) need clarity of purpose; everyone needs to be properly trained and supported until “fully effective”, and to have realistic performance targets that are fairly applied. Management must know at all times what cases are in the ‘Work in Progress’ (WiP) queue, what stage each is at, what action is required to progress each case, who is responsible for this, when it should be completed; where there are problems or blockages, these must be identified and dealt with quickly. 3.9 In the case of SRU, some of these were missing. The unit’s piecemeal growth had led to a lack of clear purpose and business objectives. Staff provided various descriptions of what they understood the purpose of the unit to be. Some thought of themselves as nationality caseworkers, some as asylum caseworkers, and others as fraud investigators. Meanwhile, the process for prioritising cases referred to the unit resulted in the majority of cases falling out of sight until and unless they became the subject of an enquiry or complaint; and, individual caseloads were too big, making it difficult for caseworkers and managers to monitor case progress, a problem made significantly worse by the caseworkers’ non-compliant practice of maintaining electronic case records on their personal drives. 3.10 Unsurprisingly, therefore, SRU’s “end to end” process was inefficient.

And the length of this post shows how ridiculous the situation under EU law is. It should be.

 

Commit a serious crime as an immigrant and your out.

[oowee]

57 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Commit a serious crime as an immigrant and your out.

The report makes it clear that for asylum seekers this is pretty much the case now (with or without the EU) but given the level of resource committed it is clearly not a priority.

 

Edited June 23, 2020 by oowee

[armsid]

Why do we let this rubbish into our great country give them benifits housing healthcare yet DENY a Fijian ,Ghurkas and others who fight for this country the right to reside here 

[Mice!]

6 minutes ago, armsid said:

Why do we let this rubbish into our great country give them benifits housing healthcare yet DENY a Fijian ,Ghurkas and others who fight for this country the right to reside here 

Because we don't want to upset the bleeding heart liberals, there are probably many genuine cases out there who seek asylum,  but those travelling across Europe to get into our country by any means possible aren't them, and this is yet another case of something that could have been avoided by deportation the first time he broke the law, one chance should be all they get.

[WalkedUp]

11 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

And the length of this post shows how ridiculous the situation under EU law is. It should be.

 

Commit a serious crime as an immigrant and your out.

I agree, freedom of movement should only be for those without any criminal convictions otherwise it’s a visa application to get anywhere. I also believe you should lose your diver’s license for any conviction and that you should be subject to criminal justice repayments. Like student loan but a tax after you are freed to repay the cost of your detention. Criminals get a free ride. My measures would almost certainly be counterproductive but would be very satisfying nonetheless. 

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, did I hear Priti Patel say lessons will need to be learned or such like, ? That what was said before and it keeps happening ? M I 5 say the have 5000 on the list of suspected terrorists ? Or people wanting to distract our way of life in uk and harm people, yet we are a magnet for terrorists activities, a recent arrest of a 15 year old beggers belief ! !