BASC to cease legal expenses cover wef 31 July 2020

[London Best]

48 minutes ago, mossy835 said:

or filling up the range rovers.

All the BASC employees that I know that get a company vehicle have a Ford Ranger.

And surely even you know at least one shooting man with a Range Rover?

[bruno22rf]

I'm a shooting man with a Range Rover - didn't pay BASC inflated membership - that's how I afford the car !!!

[WalkedUp]

2 hours ago, London Best said:

All the BASC employees that I know that get a company vehicle have a Ford Ranger.

And surely even you know at least one shooting man with a Range Rover?

This seems true, I’ve been given a lift in a BASC regional director’s Ranger on the Moor when we had to park up one end for a long drive. I’m not anti BASC but I do think there needs to be some self reflection on how they see their role. I’m a member through wildfowling. Also in Countryside Alliance privately and support GWCT. Often you don’t agree with everything your representatives do but feel they are on balance working in your interest, BASC may have just altered that tipping point for a large proportion of their non affiliate club members. 

[Farmboy91]

42 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

This seems true, I’ve been given a lift in a BASC regional director’s Ranger on the Moor when we had to park up one end for a long drive. I’m not anti BASC but I do think there needs to be some self reflection on how they see their role. I’m a member through wildfowling. Also in Countryside Alliance privately and support GWCT. Often you don’t agree with everything your representatives do but feel they are on balance working in your interest, BASC may have just altered that tipping point for a large proportion of their non affiliate club members. 

The way things are going I don't think they will have long to self reflect. 

How long will it be until the vast majority of their membership is made up of the compulsory wildfowling clubs etc? I agree with your last 7 lines or so but BASC have handled some major issues very very badly in the eyes of their members lately, and I don't see them attempting to put it right.

It's safe to say CCC will be getting my money for the foreseeable.

[mossy835]

so are basc going to take off there web site, that legal insurence will no longer be there for new members that might join.

[Diver One]

3 minutes ago, mossy835 said:

so are basc going to take off there web site, that legal insurence will no longer be there for new members that might join.

Why would they?

they didn't bother telling me when I renewed a couple of weeks ago.....not impressed

not impressed at all!

"can I borrow an umbrella  Mr BASC?"

"certainly Mr Member you can HIRE it for as long as you want"

"damnation it is raining, Mr BASC.   It's lucky that you hired me an umbrella 🌂 "

Mr BASC "give me the umbrella back NOW as nobody is using them so we will not be hiring them out anymore"

Just fuming

[mossy835]

i bet you are.if you did buy direct debit,you could cancel it.

[AVB]

I am going to cancel my BASC membership. More because of the their stance on lead ammo and their inaction in getting clarity on pest control during the lockdown. So what options are there for insurance? Countryside alliance, Country Cover Club? Any others I should look at.  

[button]

25 minutes ago, AVB said:

I am going to cancel my BASC membership. More because of the their stance on lead ammo and their inaction in getting clarity on pest control during the lockdown. So what options are there for insurance? Countryside alliance, Country Cover Club? Any others I should look at.  

Me too, I am looking at SACS and the SGA

[mossy835]

how much legal cover are with sacs.cant see it on there web site.

Edited July 5, 2020 by mossy835

[scolopax]

3 hours ago, mossy835 said:

how much legal cover are with sacs.cant see it on there web site.

I think they quietly ditched it , it was their major selling point, nobody said boo. Now BASC do the same, even though it was only in place a few years,  everyone wants out. Strange world.

[lancer425]

26 minutes ago, scolopax said:

I think they quietly ditched it , it was their major selling point, nobody said boo. Now BASC do the same, even though it was only in place a few years,  everyone wants out. Strange world.

Do not start bringing common sense and reasoning into this debate whatever you do.

[PPP]

On 03/07/2020 at 10:32, Fatcatsplat said:

Could i ask how many brokers you used in the RFP tender for coverage? How many markets did they tender to and with what fees/commissions built in? I've just looked on the website and see that Marsh used Markel - If you're going to go the Lloyd's route, there are an awful lot more syndicates to choose from.

With 155,000 members (in August, 2019) x £13.50, that's a little under £2.1M in annual spend - Take out IPT and that's a gross of £1.87M - That's a hell of a pot to play with for what is a reasonably sentient cover, generally thrown in for free with a lot of coverages

"With regards to the legal expense’s insurance only around 150 (1 in 1000) members a year make a claim, and of those only around a half (1 in 2000 members) have their cases taken up" - That's the whole point of insurance - The premium of the many to pay the losses of the few. What have the loss ratios looked like for the last 5 years? I'm genuinely interested and would be happy to converse via PM is you would prefer.

 

It’s actually worse than this as they refer to £1M saving which means they have been charging members Around 40% Commission.

A genuine question, as it’s AGM this week what needs to be done to force a vote of confidence in the board? If genuine shooters could force out the old boys lunch club who don’t give a stuff about members there is a chance that this could be a useful body.

Impressive that Ian Bell, the much lauded new CEO has made a crappy organisation much worse!

[Teal]

It's too endemic to change, if you don't like it the only way is to leave in my personal opinion. Far too sleepy an organisation to mobilise the membership into requesting change. Just look at the calibre of some of the board the members vote for.

You are pushing water uphill, if you can't support it, stop supporting them, imo. Otherwise keep paying and accept what you're given. There is some to like, not a lot though.

[ShootingEgg]

On 02/07/2020 at 17:26, Rewulf said:

Certainly going to make me think about continued membership.

If it COSTS £1 mill a year, what are they going to spend the saving on ?

Ive always stuck up for BASC , but its beginning to make me wonder whether some of the things you hear are true, ie massive salaries ect.

Regional officers are not on big money, as I looked into applying at one point but it would have been a big pay cut and one even though id of loved the job I couldn't afford it. As for other higher positions. Pass to what they maybe paid

[scolopax]

4 hours ago, lancer425 said:

Do not start bringing common sense and reasoning into this debate whatever you do.

 

I am unfortunately coming to the sad conclusion so many on our side are dumb and reactionary.  A fair proportion of comments on social media and online are from people who think BASC are ditching all insurance. I just really wish folk did some research and found out the facts as far as they can for themselves.

Edited July 5, 2020 by scolopax

[lancer425]

23 minutes ago, scolopax said:

 

I am unfortunately coming to the sad conclusion so many on our side are dumb and reactionary.  A fair proportion of comments of social media and online are from people who think BASC are ditching all insurance. I just really wish folk did some research and found out the facts as they can for themselves.

I fear you are right and  nothing can be done that is the sad part.

[Scully]

48 minutes ago, scolopax said:

 

I am unfortunately coming to the sad conclusion so many on our side are dumb and reactionary.  A fair proportion of comments of social media and online are from people who think BASC are ditching all insurance. I just really wish folk did some research and found out the facts as they can for themselves.

I have no interest in the insurance aspect to be honest, and only bother with it because my syndicate requires it. 
My reasons for leaving BASC were many and varied, built up over many years sadly, and it’s been quite a few years now since I left. 
I simply get disillusioned and disappointed with the effectiveness of our shooting orgs; many seem to promise plenty but are always left wanting.
It’s a bit like watching the England team play football; I set off with high hopes only to end up feeling let down and disappointed. 🙂

[bottletopbill]

Please BASC look at the comments and do a u turn. This will make more members leave and Basc will be no more please change some of the jumped up idiots at a senior level  and adopt a members come first policy. 

[McSpredder]

1 hour ago, scolopax said:

I am unfortunately coming to the sad conclusion so many on our side are dumb and reactionary.  A fair proportion of comments of social media and online are from people who think BASC are ditching all insurance. I just really wish folk did some research and found out the facts as they can for themselves.

Does dumb and reactionary describe the old-fashioned notion that a contract ought to be honoured, and that if insurance is cancelled there ought to be some proportional refund of premiums?  

Where are those "comments of social media and online are from people who think BASC are ditching all insurance"  to which you refer?    Please quote some.

Perhaps the dumbest thing was to suddenly announce what is being excluded from BASC insurance, without bothering to say what is still included.   Thoughtless, and somewhat lacking in basic communication skills, I would suggest.   

Can you imagine anybody in business telling customers "We are cutting features from our product, we are not reducing the price, and if you want to find out what is still included you will have to do some research and find out the facts for yourself", as you seem to think BASC members should do?

[enfieldspares]

The good news for those that feel aggrieved and have just paid a full year's membership...or even are three or four months into it are that BASC are registered with the Financial Conduct Authority.

So for those members seeking a part refund. The FCA has rules on how a complaint is handled.

I have worked in an industry also governed by the FCA. If aggrieved you will need to make a complaint to BASC and ask for  cancellation of your remaining membership and a refund  as below. Also for "redress"  for the inconvenience of now having to telephone around and etc..

Ask BASC to make you a cash offer and to re-imburse the remaining proportion of "unused" months on your membership you've paid. They have varied the contract of what benefits you have without your consent. They cannot do this regardless IMHO of whatever the "small print" says as that will be struck down by implied "unfair contract terms" law.

If they refuse to make a pr-rata refund then ask that your complaint be escalated. And the timescale that they have to respond in is quite specific.

And...and this is key...regardless of whether your complaint is upheld internally by the company it is this:

1) if a company that is governed by the FCA fails to resolve a complaint then you can tell the company that you "refuse to accept the resolution offered" and your complaint must then be referred by it to the FCA.

2) At which point the company (not you) has to pay the FCA a £500 fee for the FCA having to intervene. This is why so many companies in fact settle as it is cheaper for them to do so rather than pay that £500.

I used to be a huge believer in BASC. It is disappointing to now have turned against them. But then who is that the fault of?

Here are some links. The topmost may be a useful starting point. The other is in more general terms:
 

Report an unfair contract term

Financial firms must provide clear and fair contracts, and cannot enforce unfair terms.

 www.fca.org.uk

 

How to complain

If you are unhappy with a financial product or service, you can complain.

 www.fca.org.uk

Edited July 5, 2020 by enfieldspares

[enfieldspares]

Meanwhile here's this from the House of Common's Register of Members' Interests:

Geoffrey Clifton-Brown MP

£741 + £800 + £772 + £772 + £825 = £3910

Gifts, benefits and hospitality (UK)
Name of donor: British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC)
Address of donor : Marford Mill, Rossett, Wrexham LL12 0HL
Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: supper, bed and breakfast, and one day’s shooting at Catton Hall, Derbyshire, 16 December 2012; total value £741.60
Date of receipt of donation: 16 December 2012
Date of acceptance of donation: 16 December 2012
Donor status: Registered Industrial and Provident Society, No 28488R

Name of donor: British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC)
Address of donor : Marford Mill, Rossett, Wrexham LL12 0HL
Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: one day’s shooting and supper, bed and breakfast at Catton Hall, Derbyshire; total value £800.50
Date of receipt of donation: 13 December 2013
Date of acceptance of donation: 13 December 2013
Donor status: Registered Industrial and Provident Society, No 28488R

Name of donor: British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC)
Address of donor: Marford Mill, Rossett, Wrexham LL12 0HL
Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: one day’s shooting and one night’s accommodation at Hoar Cross Hall Hotel Staffordshire; total value £772
Date received: 17 December 2015
Date accepted: 17 December 2015
Donor status: Registered Industrial and Provident Society No 28488R
(Registered 21 December 2015)

Name of donor: British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC)
Address of donor: Marford Mill, Rossett, Wrexham LL12 0HL
Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: one day’s shooting at Catton Hall, South Derbyshire and one night’s accommodation at Hoar Cross Hall Hotel Staffordshire; total value £772
Date of receipt of donation: 16 December 2016
Date of acceptance of donation: 16 December 2016
Donor status: Registered Industrial and Provident Society No 28488R
(Registered 19 December 2016)

Name of donor: British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC)
Address of donor: Marford Mill, Rossett, Wrexham LL12 0HL
Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: one day’s shooting and one night’s hospitality, total value £825.45
Date received: 15 December 2017
Date accepted: 15 December 2017
Donor status: Registered Industrial and Provident Society No 28488R
(Registered 08 January 2018)



Wiggin, Bill MP (North Herefordshire)

£825 + £953 = £1778

Gifts, benefits and hospitality from UK sources
Name of donor: British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC)
Address of donor: Marford Mill, Rossett, Wrexham LL12 0HL
Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: one day’s shooting at Catton Hall, South Derbyshire and one night’s accommodation; total value £825.45
Date of receipt of donation: 15 December 2017
Date of acceptance of donation: 15 December 2017
Donor status: Registered Industrial and Provident Society No 28488R
(Registered 09 January 2018)

Name of donor: British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC)
Address of donor: Marford Mill, Rossett, Wrexham LL12 0HL
Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: one day’s shooting at Catton Hall, South Derbyshire and one night’s accommodation; total value £953
Date received: 24-25 September 2018
Date accepted: 24 September 2018
Donor status: Registered Industrial and Provident Society No 28488R
(Registered 30 October 2018)



Brady, Sir Graham MP (Altrincham and Sale West)

£826 + £825 = £1651

Gifts, benefits and hospitality from UK sources

Name of Donor: British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC)
Address of donor: Marford Mill, Rossett, Wrexham LL12 0HL
Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: one day’s shooting at Catton Hall, South Derbyshire and one night’s accommodation at Hoar Cross Hall Hotel Staffordshire: total £826.73
Date of receipt of donation: 16 December 2016
Date of acceptance of donation: 16 December 2016
Donor status: Registered Industrial and Provident Society No 28488R
(Registered 23 December 2016; updated 10 January 2017)

Name of donor: British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC)
Address of donor: Marford Mill, Rossett, Wrexham LL12 0HL
Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: one day’s shooting at Catton Hall, South Derbyshire and one night’s accommodation at Hoar Cross Hall Hotel, Staffordshire: £825.45 in total
Date received: 15 December 2017
Date accepted: 15 December 2017
Donor status: Registered Industrial and Provident Society No. 28488R
(Registered 15 January 2018)



SPENCER, Mark MP (Sherwood)

£850 + £850 + £772 + £670 = £3152

Gifts, benefits and hospitality (UK)

Name of donor: British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC)
Address of donor : Marford Mill, Rossett, Wrexham LL12 0HL
Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: one day’s shooting and one night’s accommodation at Catton Hall, Derbyshire, total value £850
Date of receipt of donation: 13 December 2012
Date of acceptance of donation: 13 December 2012

Name of donor: British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC)
Address of donor: Marford Mill, Rossett, Wrexham LL12 0HL
Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: one day’s shooting and one night’s accommodation at Catton Hall, Derbyshire, total value £850
Date of receipt of donation: 13 December 2013
Date of acceptance of donation: 13 December 2013
Donor status: unincorporated association

Name of donor: British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC)
Address of donor: Marford Mill, Rossett, Wrexham LL12 0HL
Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: one day’s shooting and one night’s accommodation at Hoar Cross Hall Hotel Staffordshire; total value £772
Date received: 17 December 2015
Date accepted: 17 December 2015
Donor status: Registered Industrial and Provident Society No 28488R
(Registered 13 January 2016)

Name of donor: British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC)
Address of donor: Marford Mill, Rossett, Wrexham LL12 0HL
Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: one day’s shooting with a value of £670
Date of receipt of donation: 15 December 2017
Date of acceptance of donation: 15 December 2017
Donor status: Registered Industrial and Provident Society No 28488R

 

And, like Frank Cook was wont to say, and there's more:

Adams, Nigel (Selby and Ainsty)
Name of donor: British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC) Address of donor: Marford Mill, Rossett, Wrexham LL12 0HL Amount of donation, or nature and value if donation in kind: one day’s shooting at Catton Hall, South Derbyshire and one night’s accommodation; total value £953 Date received: 24-25 September 2018 Date accepted: 24 September 2018 Donor status: Registered Industrial and Provident Society No 28488R (Registered 01 November 2018)

Djanogly, Mr Jonathan (Huntingdon)
Name of donor: British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC) Address of donor: Marford Mill, Rossett, Wrexham LL12 0HL Amount of donation, or nature and value if donation in kind: one day's shooting and one night's hospitality, total value £953 Date received: 25 September 2018 Date accepted: 25 September 2018 Donor status: Industrial and Provident Society No 28488R (Registered 05 October 2018)

Garnier, Mark (Wyre Forest)
Name of donor: British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC) Address of donor: Marford Mill, Rossett, Wrexham LL12 0HL Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: one day’s shooting at Catton Hall, South Derbyshire with a value of £700 Date received: 25 September 2018 Date accepted: 25 September 2018 Donor status: Registered Industrial and Provident Society No 28488R (Registered 07 November 2018)

Edited July 5, 2020 by enfieldspares

[udderlyoffroad]

9 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

Meanwhile here's this from the House of Common's Register of Members' Interests:

They are supposed to be a lobbying organisation.  That is precisely what they're supposed to do.  Unlike other countries, it must be publicly declared.

What is your point?

True, looking at some of the names, they might well have been preaching to the choir, but, again, we need allies in parliament.

I wish they'd take my local MP shooting, or at least show her some of the land management/conservation work keepers do.  As she's a former director of LACS, I don't hold out much hope.

[enfieldspares]

My point is does the Countryside Alliance do this? The Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust? The others like NGO, SGA, SACS? The Country Landowners' Association? No. I cannot see ANY such gifts on the Members' Interests Register. 

And as I have asked elsewhere have ANY of these that have enjoyed such days....that's some as far back as 2012, 2013, 2015 actually raised and single successful attempt to have the Home Office Guidance adding a clear and unambiguous "addendum" to the Home Office Guidance concerning the GP input as set down in law? I can't see that on Google.

That anything over and above the above must be "exceptional" and therefore paid for by Chief Constable requesting it out of his/her force's budget and not be a charge on the individual shooter?

Seems to me that its wasted money to continue to pay for a choir that yet still doesn't seem to ever sing from the songsheet its audience truly and really hopes to hear from. It's worse that preaching to the converted. It seems here to be rewarding scant success at all.

To say little of those who give up their time for free not for £650 pheasant days year on year to really protect the future of shooting by getting youngsters involved in it.

Edited July 6, 2020 by enfieldspares

[scarecrow243]

i said a few years ago basc would not help me with my fac application and they said to the gun shop that phoned them on my behalf that they thought i was telling lies  so i never joined them again  they only help them selfs