No guest shooting, is this normal?

[Smokersmith]

3 hours ago, Demonic69 said:

The attitude of the staff, rather than the rule is what's put me off going back.

With you on that one ...

One ground in particular has the most condescending set of owners, and I'm not going back.

[Demonic69]

1 hour ago, Centrepin said:

Have you ever been at a ground when a cert holder has turned up with half a dozen mates in tow. Semi auto, normally camouflaged, fires 3 shots at every clay and their shouting is generally louder than the gun. If you're behind them it takes forever unless you bypass the stand. If you're in front you jump the next two stands to get some distance.

Or maybe I'm just unlucky cos it's happened to me twice. 

I've not seen that myself. I've seen a group of lads with some semis and some pumps enjoying themselves. They were being a bit loud, but no more than other groups I've seen.

There have been a few All The Gear, No Ideas giving "lessons" to groups of people who clearly don't want to be there, probably family.

The worst gun safety I've seen is from experienced shooters, usually just small lapses in concentration while chatting to mates. Not opening the gun when taking from the rack, closing it before putting it back, not watching the where the business end is pointing etc.

[Pangolin]

1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

also seen people trying to hit clays by firing from the hip. 

We used to do that at my mates place, you can get surprisingly good at it.

[Vince Green]

33 minutes ago, Pangolin said:

We used to do that at my mates place, you can get surprisingly good at it.

we have all done things like that, you just have to choose the right time and place.

[Pangolin]

Just now, Vince Green said:

we have all done things like that, you just have to choose the right time and place.

Yes, this was on his farm.

[LeedsZeppelin]

I've had a similar experience to OP, although I had phoned and asked the question before leaving the house.

Their explanation was that only 'their coaches' were allowed to give lessons, and anyone shooting under supervision was theoretically been given a lesson. The only way we could shoot together was to pay for a lesson.

Me and a non-SGC holder friend who has shot with me dozens of times just wanted a quiet round, so we went elsewhere.

That ground gets a kick-back from any lessons booked with the house coaches, and seems desperate to defend that small bit of income. I have known another coach getting banned from the ground for giving 'unofficial lessons'.

4 hours ago, Rob85 said:

Weapon handling....I don't know how else to describe a sporting shotgun but the term "weapon" doesn't sit easily with me. A weapon in my opinion is something you have with the intention of injuring or killing a person.

My thoughts exactly. The term reminds me of my training in the military, and the term 'weapon' was used to subconsciously remind you that what you are handling is not a toy but a dangerous piece of kit designed to kill anything in front of it.

I was under the impression that the term 'weapon'was frowned upon by the police as it gives the wrong impression. Even to the extent that it could negatively impact an FEO's decision at an application interview if you refer to a shotgun or rifle as a weapon.

[London Best]

Weapons are for fighting with. What we have are sporting guns or sporting rifles.  
I once had a police officer ask me what weapon I was carrying. I told him I didn’t have any weapons, I had a sporting rifle. There IS a difference. 

[Scully]

5 hours ago, Centrepin said:

Have you ever been at a ground when a cert holder has turned up with half a dozen mates in tow. Semi auto, normally camouflaged, fires 3 shots at every clay and their shouting is generally louder than the gun. If you're behind them it takes forever unless you bypass the stand. If you're in front you jump the next two stands to get some distance.

Or maybe I'm just unlucky cos it's happened to me twice. 

😀Yeah, something similar has  happened to me a couple of times too, but the most annoying was a bloke ( and his mate plus girlfriend ) who would regularly pay for three cards each and insist on shooting all three ( that’s nine cards in total ) at each stand before moving on to the next! There was all the added changing of chokes going on to suit each target at each stand of course....royal pains in the aris! I wouldn’t mind but his lady friend was hopeless, so there was also much discussion of advice and waving of arms as they tracked the bird with a hand prior to shooting. 
I once saw the same bloke wait til the end of day to shoot the pool seven times before straighting it to win! 🤷‍♂️

Edited April 7, 2021 by Scully

[Lloyd90]

There’s two big ground in Gloucester I’ve been to, Ladywoods and Ian Coley’s. 
 

Coley’s is ticket holders only and I think Ladywoods is caddied. So a member of staff has to go around with your ground anyway. 
 

Normally shoot Mendip shooting ground, which is a bit further away but you can turn up anytime whenever and with almost anyone and just crack on. 

[Scully]

3 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

There’s two big ground in Gloucester I’ve been to, Ladywoods and Ian Coley’s. 
 

Coley’s is ticket holders only and I think Ladywoods is caddied. So a member of staff has to go around with your ground anyway. 
 

Normally shoot Mendip shooting ground, which is a bit further away but you can turn up anytime whenever and with almost anyone and just crack on. 

Have to admit all this is quite alien to me! 
As I said, In all the years I’ve been shooting, I’ve never come across any of the obstacles ( logical, warrented or otherwise ) at any clay ground I’ve visited, and there’s been a few! 
Ive been asked for my ticket when buying cartridges, which is a requirement anyhow, and once some official at a small local ground many years ago tried to tell me that despite having BASC insurance I should have CPSA insurance if I wanted to shoot clays, but didn’t persist when I disagreed with him, but apart from that I’ve always just turned up and shot, Covid requirements notwithstanding obviously. 

[London Best]

Am I right in thinking that at Doveridge they ask for your SGC when issuing a dongle and put it in a pigeon hole to be returned when you return the dongle?

[Demonic69]

4 minutes ago, London Best said:

Am I right in thinking that at Doveridge they ask for your SGC when issuing a dongle and put it in a pigeon hole to be returned when you return the dongle?

The last time I went I just pre paid for a card and went shooting with the foot pedals, far too easy to blast through 150 clays and carts in under an hour! They didn't ask for my SGC, probably assuming that, without my cert, I wouldn't have the means to shoot in the first place 🤣

[Rob85]

34 minutes ago, London Best said:

Am I right in thinking that at Doveridge they ask for your SGC when issuing a dongle and put it in a pigeon hole to be returned when you return the dongle?

I'm not sure about the mainland but in NI, handing your certificate over(other than an RFD for buying carts or guns) to be retained by another person would be seen as a breach of your conditions by putting your security at risk. Reason being anyone working on the premises could see your name and address and whatever firearms you hold, they now know where you are and what you have. It's probably something peculiar to NI due to our history though

[Centrepin]

10 hours ago, London Best said:

Am I right in thinking that at Doveridge they ask for your SGC when issuing a dongle and put it in a pigeon hole to be returned when you return the dongle?

Not that I know of. But it's been 2 years since I last went. My son was asked for his SGC as he bought carts but I wasn't.

Wherever we go we tend to shoot a slab each and staff tend to remember us for that reason. We generally zero the card after the first slab and anything over 250  we refuse to pay for as "no birds". Never been asked for a deposit, never had any fuss about paying.

On a personal note the only time I part with my SGC is to allow someone to enter a gun on it.

[dead eye alan]

Still think a phone call first is the only way to go.

[WalkedUp]

My favourite clay ground has no telephone line, website or signage. You just have to “know” the rules and the opening times (which change with the sun). Guests are welcome. At the other end of the scale is Sealand, they  don’t allow non-SGC until they have had an introductory course of lessons with their instructors. Fair enough really. 

I tend to take guests to my local little ground, and have never really thought before about how much of a blockage taking a couple of non-SGC guests (to introduce them to the sport) is for others. I like to give new people a taster but I guess some consideration of regular attendees is worthwhile. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by WalkedUp

[TRINITY]

16 hours ago, Centrepin said:

Have you ever been at a ground when a cert holder has turned up with half a dozen mates in tow. Semi auto, normally camouflaged, fires 3 shots at every clay and their shouting is generally louder than the gun. If you're behind them it takes forever unless you bypass the stand. If you're in front you jump the next two stands to get some distance.

Or maybe I'm just unlucky cos it's happened to me twice. 

Centre pin, 

I know exactly what you are are saying. This is the main reason I detest Sunday morning straw bailers. I have been to quite a few in Yorkshire and everyone has had one or more of such groups. 

[TRINITY]

11 hours ago, Scully said:

Have to admit all this is quite alien to me! 
As I said, In all the years I’ve been shooting, I’ve never come across any of the obstacles ( logical, warrented or otherwise ) at any clay ground I’ve visited, and there’s been a few! 
Ive been asked for my ticket when buying cartridges, which is a requirement anyhow, and once some official at a small local ground many years ago tried to tell me that despite having BASC insurance I should have CPSA insurance if I wanted to shoot clays, but didn’t persist when I disagreed with him, but apart from that I’ve always just turned up and shot, Covid requirements notwithstanding obviously. 

Well I went to a very well known shooting ground in the north of England. I phoned up first to check on mid week practice. Times etc were explained but no mention of my sgc. I turned up on the day and asked for 100 Clay's. I was asked for my sgc.  I did not have it but carry a photo copy in the car with my cpsa ticket and insurance. I was told this was not good enough. I then offered to show my driving licence as further identity but still refused. I then said ok and started to walk away and my parting remark was , "ok I will take my custom elsewhere"  then by magic another member of staff , heard this and came over and said it was OK to shoot.

 

[London Best]

11 hours ago, Rob85 said:

I'm not sure about the mainland but in NI, handing your certificate over(other than an RFD for buying carts or guns) to be retained by another person would be seen as a breach of your conditions by putting your security at risk. Reason being anyone working on the premises could see your name and address and whatever firearms you hold, they now know where you are and what you have. It's probably something peculiar to NI due to our history though

Exactly! 
That was my concern. 
I am not really a clay shooter, but on the couple of occasions I have been there I am sure that was how it was done.

[reggiegun]

18 hours ago, London Best said:

Am I right in thinking that at Doveridge they ask for your SGC when issuing a dongle and put it in a pigeon hole to be returned when you return the dongle?

That's only to make sure you bring the card back to pay

[London Best]

35 minutes ago, reggiegun said:

That's only to make sure you bring the card back to pay

Maybe I look a bit dodgy?

[discobob]

20 hours ago, LeedsZeppelin said:

My thoughts exactly. The term reminds me of my training in the military, and the term 'weapon' was used to subconsciously remind you that what you are handling is not a toy but a dangerous piece of kit designed to kill anything in front of it.

I was under the impression that the term 'weapon'was frowned upon by the police as it gives the wrong impression. Even to the extent that it could negatively impact an FEO's decision at an application interview if you refer to a shotgun or rifle as a weapon.

I agree with you there - and treat my gun as a weapon if you get my meaning. One of the worst breaches on a clay ground that I have seen is an ex-officer. I pulled him down a peg on safety.

 

8 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

My favourite clay ground has no telephone line, website or signage. You just have to “know” the rules and the opening times (which change with the sun). Guests are welcome. At the other end of the scale is Sealand, they  don’t allow non-SGC until they have had an introductory course of lessons with their instructors. Fair enough really. 

I tend to take guests to my local little ground, and have never really thought before about how much of a blockage taking a couple of non-SGC guests (to introduce them to the sport) is for others. I like to give new people a taster but I guess some consideration of regular attendees is worthwhile. 

Where is that as we are quite close by to each other

[Pangolin]

I went to the open practice at the local this evening, advertised as SGC holders ONLY. They didnt check one person for a SGC when I was in the queue.

[welshwarrior]

Yes this quite normal on larger grounds your SGC says the police trust you (not that you are competent) some grounds will also ask for proof of insurance if you are unescorted.  
Having a SGC does mean your capable of looking after a novice (some with out a SGC), why should the ground take the risk.  
 

I’ve caught people doing really stupid things on grounds when unescorted and I don’t blame grounds for being cautious as it’s them that get the blame and repercussions after an accident. 

[Downforce]

I personally would typically call a ground I've never shot at before BUT I very often get told there's no need to call just turn up is fine when I call.

I was on holiday in Devon & Cornwall and went on the website and everything seemed dandy - I called up and asked all the normal questions (I thought) having looked at the website first. It was only right at the very end of the conversation that I said, great see you tomorrow when they told me they were closed on Wednesdays (or whatever day). As I still had the website open on the laptop in front of me I looked again at the opening times and was confused to see they were open every day except Mondays and the person I was talking to said yes thats wrong on the website. DOH!

So I learned two lessons that day;

1. Dont take everything published on a website as gospel - ask about everything that will affect your activity.
2. Dont assume that someone will tell you that theres innaccuracies on the website - even if you are calling them to ask about shooting in the next few days - ask about everything that will affect your activity !

D