Help needed

[wishy735]

Today I had the firearms officer turn up and asked me to surrender my shotguns and rifles, which I did. (Please don't tell me if this was right or wrong)

 

I have moved from Norfolk to Lincoln and had been granted both SGC and fac in march.having both for over 20 years I had not informed Norfolk that I had taken antidepressants (sleeping tablets) in 2008 and 2012. Norfolk picked up upon this and questioned why. my reasons were accepted as historical and perhaps naive.

 

However Lincolnshire police see this as reason to take away my shotguns and rifles, because I had been dishonest with Norfolk.

 

Lincolnshire police are saying I have been dishonest and that in Lincolnshire that means I can not have shotguns or rifles.  

 

I however after sitting here seething for the past 6 hours can not see how Lincolnshire can apply their rules over another country.

 

Lincolnshire have not asked me to fill in any paperwork, other than get a doctor to submit another report, with the same information that was available 4 months ago.

 

 Lincolnshire have not allowed me to or asked me to fill in any paperwork.

 

If I had emitted to inform Lincolnshire of the medical prescriptions I could be a bit more understanding but they have never asked me. 

 

Think I could be needing a local legal professional who can help me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rbrowning2]

36 minutes ago, wishy735 said:

 

I however after sitting here seething for the past 6 hours can not see how Lincolnshire can apply their rules over another country.

yes they can, each Chief Constable can operate what ever policy they consider appropriate.

if a member of any shooting organisation I would seek their help, but unlikely to be a quick fix however you go about it.

get the medical report they have requested and then submit it as possibly they are throwing you a lifeline by asking for it.

their was no mandatory GP reports back in 2008 and 2012 so you are likely to have to explain why you omitted to mention the antidepressants on your renewals back then.

they are very risk adverse especially given recent events in Plymouth.

Good luck.

 

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by rbrowning2

[steve_b_wales]

If you are a member of BASC, seek their advice, or contact a solicitor who knows about firearm regulations.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Sorry to say that Lincolnshire Police can and will hold it against you and they are quite possibly correct to do so.

[wishy735]

31 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Sorry to say that Lincolnshire Police can and will hold it against you and they are quite possibly correct to do so.

Why are they correct? I have not lied to them. If I had remained in Norfolk which borders Lincolnshire I could have carried on shooting all over the country.

 

They are aware of the medical prescriptions otherwise they would not be taking this stance. Good enough for Norfolk but not for Lincolnshire.

 

 

 

[Rob85]

I would be pretty peeved at this. This allowance for chief constables to do as they please in interpreting rules/guidelines is why incidents like Plymouth happen. The mainland needs to get one set of rules that all chief constables go by, I don't see how that is not the sensible option. Then when you move counties you just have the continuity of the original licence until renewal.

I've just went through my renewal(northern ireland) and the question we are asked regarding mental health only considers the previous 5 years. I was informed that as I had a note on my file previous(over 5 years ago) they would write to the doctor regardless of when it happened but unless it can be shown that I deliberately lied about anything that changed since my last renewal 5 years previously then there should be no change. but to drag up an episode that is 9 years old at least is ripping the hole out of it a bit. 

I think we are now seeing police getting tetchy about guns after the Plymouth incident.

[Free range Rob]

Lincs have always had a bad reputation on licencing, approach an org if your a member or get a legal involved as you will need it.

[Ooops]

Wishy sorry to hear about your troubles.

This lady was mentioned on the TDS forum as being particularly effective. Amongst her specialities are firearms licensing appeals. 

"Laura Saunsbury from Lewis Nedas Law, who is a leading expert in Firearms Law. Laura is a consultant solicitor with 25 years experience practicing exclusively in firearms related law, both criminal offences and firearms licensing appeals"

The original thread may read at https://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/threads/hare-coursers.204260/ post #1 

Hope this helps

[TIGHTCHOKE]

8 hours ago, wishy735 said:

Why are they correct? I have not lied to them. If I had remained in Norfolk which borders Lincolnshire I could have carried on shooting all over the country. They are aware of the medical prescriptions otherwise they would not be taking this stance. Good enough for Norfolk but not for Lincolnshire.

I would suspect that they (Lincolnshire Firearms Licensing) probably feel that you have not told them everything they might want to know.

Your mindset appears to be that you have not lied to them, but you must accept that by not telling them everything you have effectively withheld pertinent information.

[mgsontour]

I'd feel the same as you TBH but as mentioned above you might not like us telling you that you have lied but you have, it's going to get worse with gun laws, carts, and anties

[kamyonsofor]

11 hours ago, steve_b_wales said:

If you are a member of BASC, seek their advice, or contact a solicitor who knows about firearm regulations.

I agree with Steve you need to contact the firearms section at BASC if not a member then join asap,they are very helpfull and have the legal eagles on board and present your case.Another issue you only have to be squeaky clean in the last 3 years  to satisfy the Home Office and your history is well beyond that.

[clangerman]

if norfolk had any notion you were lying they would have acted they clearly accepted you did not mislead them as your continued ownership proves inform lincoln chief constable and his police and crime commissioner (recorded delivery) if your firearms are not returned within 28days you will make a court application listing norfolk and your gp as witnesses advice is cheap go with what works 

[Westley]

53 minutes ago, clangerman said:

if norfolk had any notion you were lying they would have acted they clearly accepted you did not mislead them as your continued ownership proves inform lincoln chief constable and his police and crime commissioner (recorded delivery) if your firearms are not returned within 28days you will make a court application listing norfolk and your gp as witnesses advice is cheap go with what works 

There yer go, who needs Solicitors anyway  ??  

[GingerCat]

My unqualified take on this is that Norfolk should have done what lincolnshire are now doing. In light of recent events this will be become ever increasing. 

I'd  suggest you take the life line they have thrown you  wait a few months and then get your guns back provided the gp report says what you say it will. 

[wishy735]

18 hours ago, Ooops said:

Wishy sorry to hear about your troubles.

This lady was mentioned on the TDS forum as being particularly effective. Amongst her specialities are firearms licensing appeals. 

"Laura Saunsbury from Lewis Nedas Law, who is a leading expert in Firearms Law. Laura is a consultant solicitor with 25 years experience practicing exclusively in firearms related law, both criminal offences and firearms licensing appeals"

The original thread may read at https://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/threads/hare-coursers.204260/ post #1 

Hope this helps

Thanks I have been in touch with them today and they are more than eager to take my case on.

17 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I would suspect that they (Lincolnshire Firearms Licensing) probably feel that you have not told them everything they might want to know.

Your mindset appears to be that you have not lied to them, but you must accept that by not telling them everything you have effectively withheld pertinent information.

I have not been asked anything by Lincolnshire! I only informed them that I had moved to Lincolnshire. The only thing I have provided is a doctor's report which was asked for by my new doctor in Lincolnshire who I have yet to see.

[Ooops]

5 hours ago, wishy735 said:

Thanks I have been in touch with them today and they are more than eager to take my case on

Wishy that's excellent news. Let us know your progress as things unfold.

As a point of interest, did you join BASC and get a consultation? 

[London Best]

I don’t think BASC will help with pre-existing issues from before you join.

[Newbie to this]

I don't think BASC will help at all!

[robbiep]

Whilst you are correct in that you have not lied to your current licencing authority, the fact remains that you did lie to Norfolk licencing on a form where the consequences for lying or omission are very clearly laid out.

I suspect that you have made your bed, and will now be expected to lie in it.

It is not up to the police force to ask you about any new medical conditions on renewal, it is up to YOU to inform them of any new conditions - the renewal form and notes both make that perfectly clear, and have done so for 20 years or more.

By failing to do so you will be viewed as having concealed that information, and therefore having obtained your certificate by deception. Even if your medical conditions were not enough to cause concern, its the attempt to hide the information that is of greater concern - especially after recent events.

[marsh man]

16 minutes ago, robbiep said:

Whilst you are correct in that you have not lied to your current licencing authority, the fact remains that you did lie to Norfolk licencing on a form where the consequences for lying or omission are very clearly laid out.

I suspect that you have made your bed, and will now be expected to lie in it.

It is not up to the police force to ask you about any new medical conditions on renewal, it is up to YOU to inform them of any new conditions - the renewal form and notes both make that perfectly clear, and have done so for 20 years or more.

By failing to do so you will be viewed as having concealed that information, and therefore having obtained your certificate by deception. Even if your medical conditions were not enough to cause concern, its the attempt to hide the information that is of greater concern - especially after recent events.

Might not be what the op wanted to read , but 100% correct 

[clangerman]

as norfolk ACCEPTED the op did not set out to misled it cannot be taken as a deliberate attempt to lie or it has to be the case norfolk allowed someone unfit to hold firearms for 20yrs you can’t have cake and eat it 

[Vince Green]

I got a right telling off for not notifying the FEO when I got divorced even though it was amicable and uncontested

[Tonka54]

53 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

I got a right telling off for not notifying the FEO when I got divorced even though it was amicable and uncontested

SAY WHAT!!! That is frigging unbelievable, how the hell does getting divorced become a concern of your FEO, Unless of course, they happen to be your ex father/mother in law😁.

Edited September 10, 2021 by Tonka54
typo

[robbiep]

1 hour ago, clangerman said:

as norfolk ACCEPTED the op did not set out to misled it cannot be taken as a deliberate attempt to lie or it has to be the case norfolk allowed someone unfit to hold firearms for 20yrs you can’t have cake and eat it 

The OP stated that Norfolk viewed it as 'historical and perhaps naïve'.

Lincs may have looked at it and decided it is 'not so historical, and perhaps deliberate concealment'. we don't know.

Putting things in CAPITALS doesn't make your point any more valid, by the way

It's a simple fact that the forms have, for decades, required you to notify any such changes. The OP failed to do so. His new licencing authority are entitled to take a dim view of such behaviour

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

There are some extremely "old fashioned" and poorly thought through views throughout this thread.

 

With the appalling events involving licensed and unlicensed guns in past years is it any wonder Police Forces and their licensing mechanisms are being "more careful?"