Azeem Rafiq

[holloway]

Any views on this saga ? I am trying to understand what has happened during his career at Yorkshire cricket club.the problem being we don't get any of the facts ,his best friend was racially abusing him but thought it was banter how does that even work ? Obviously other stuff went on but what ? How long was his career at Yorkshire ?I thought I read he had been there for ten years ,I have become completely lost by it all ,I see Yorkshire have now settled employment tribunal is that a money thing ? 

[harkom]

The whole issue is pathetic. Anybody born outside of Yorkshire will get verbal abuse from the natives !

Looks like another payday seeker?

[Gordon R]

Hard to judge without all the facts, but I do recall Brian Close on TV saying that Yorkshire cricket was for "our lads", which left no-one in any doubt who he was referring to.

As an outsider, no-one seems to have come out of it well.

[RCB56]

Up until 1991 if you weren't born in Yorkshire you could not play for them. The first overseas player was a young Indian player Satchin Tendulker.

[JDog]

What intrigues me is that Rafiq went back for a second spell.

[chrisjpainter]

32 minutes ago, harkom said:

The whole issue is pathetic. Anybody born outside of Yorkshire will get verbal abuse from the natives !

Looks like another payday seeker?

Nope that's not good enough. This is from team mates, it's from club officials, it's from people closely associated with the club and it was meted out on a player representing them. This was over a sustained period, not one-off comments. To say 'oh it's just Yorkshire' is a cop out. Put yourself in the players' (and it's plural now) shoes. You expect a certain level of personal abuse from opposition fans. It's unnecessary, banal and childish, but it happens. But where do you turn when it's your own club doing it? 

Ballance has already come out to publicly apologise for comments he's made, so Yorkshire's lamentable attempt to sweep it under the carpet looks crass and ill-judged at best. The report actually found that he had been victim of 'racial harassment and bullying' - but they decided not to do anything about it. In any business, if a report had found evidence of 'racial harassment and bullying' there would be consequences. It smacks of a club that has assumed it's got some kind of inherent special status.

Putting them into the international wilderness for a bit is a start.

He was there for ten seasons and played all formats. The new chair's made a difference and has brought in a lot of measures to make it transparent. The full report can be disclosed to anyone; initially Rafiq was given a heavily redacted version. The tribunal was settled with Rafiq - and the non-disclosure agreement Yorks had tried to slip in was removed. They've also set up a process for complaints to be made and there will be a review into the processes behind diversity at the club. 

[bluesj]

As we (or at least I) don't know what was said how can any one really have much of a view on it.

Banter can be pretty full on at times the fast place i worked I was the short ***** ****** and the lad i worked with was the fat four eyed ****!

[Walker570]

Far more important things to think about.

[henry d]

17 minutes ago, bluesj said:

As we (or at least I) don't know what was said how can any one really have much of a view on it.

Banter can be pretty full on at times the fast place i worked I was the short ***** ****** and the lad i worked with was the fat four eyed ****!

And you were ok with it? Others may not be, image a child being taunted like that, just banter?

[holloway]

I have got one point that I have thought about ,and that is that at the time of the banter it was maybe not considered offensive by the giver until now when we are all more enlightened,and therefore it might have taken a similar length of time for the abused to realise that it was not banter but abuse and hence why he has acted all of these years later .

If that makes sense (sorry if this logic has offended anybody it's a minefield)

[12gauge82]

18 minutes ago, henry d said:

And you were ok with it? Others may not be, image a child being taunted like that, just banter?

Here's the problem. 

Part of uk culture is based on banter. The governments strategy on diversity and protected characteristics is harming the fabric of our society including the very people it is supposed to protect.

I know someone who was paralysed, the first time his best mates went to see him, they took the **** and called him ironside, xavier and called him lazy for not getting up, it was the first time he smiled since it had happened.

The point to that story is the legislation creates different rules based on colour, which in itself is racist, that alone could cause resentment. On top of that it excludes ethnic minoritys as everyone is too afraid to include them in banter for fear of causing offence, excluding them from and putting barriers up with wider society, I should imagine it also causes suspicion, if I was a black man, despite probably experiencing next to no racism in the uk, I would probably believe most white people were closet racists, if the TV and government is to be believed, as they and the media talk like its a huge problem. Like I said, all its done is drive a wedge between people based on colour. What's wrong with going back to how it used to be, treat everyone how you'd like to be treated and if you accidentally offend someone, you appoligize. No one gets sacked or branded a racist (unless of course they really are, which is thankfully exceedingly rare.) 

[chrisjpainter]

35 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Far more important things to think about.

Sums almost every single thread in Other Topics, but there's still value in having the threads

 

8 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

What's wrong with going back to how it used to be, treat everyone how you'd like to be treated and if you accidentally offend someone, you apologise. No one gets sacked or branded a racist (unless of course they really are, which is thankfully exceedingly rare.) 

Yup. exactly so. I think the trouble here is that there was no apology, or recognition of the effect it caused. Then Yorks compounded it by having an enquiry, admitting the abuse, but then decided nothing needed to be done because of it and tried to sweep it all under the carpet in redacted reports and NDA's. 

[12gauge82]

1 minute ago, chrisjpainter said:

Sums almost every single thread in Other Topics, but there's still value in having the threads

 

Yup. exactly so. I think the trouble here is that there was no apology, or recognition of the effect it caused. Then Yorks compounded it by having an enquiry, admitting the abuse, but then decided nothing needed to be done because of it and tried to sweep it all under the carpet in redacted reports and NDA's. 

I'll be honest, I'm not that clued up on this case, but if the chap who caused offence didn't appoligize, that's pretty bad. 

[clangerman]

26 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

 What's wrong with going back to how it used to be, treat everyone how you'd like to be treated and if you accidentally offend someone, you appoligize. No one gets sacked or branded a racist (unless of course they really are, which is thankfully exceedingly rare.) 

we stopped doing that because it was far to sensible and worked 

[holloway]

1 hour ago, Walker570 said:

Far more important things to think about.

Didn't stop you posting though !

[Agriv8]

So the hospital our two where born at is just over Lancashire Yorkshire boarder in the good  old days there are stories of ladies about to calf  crossing there legs so that there child was Yorkshire Born. Ps my shooting pal mum was a mid wife there for 30 years and seen this first hand. 
 

The problem I have with this is that there are two sides to the storey and things were said in different times. I am not condoning racism but my old Nick name at work would no longer allowed to be used as it could be derogatory.

One of my best gaffers at work was Asian while working up through the ranks we worked shifts it used to get stressful - we would often swear at each other using terms that in this day and age would probably get us both sacked. Something that we both still have a giggle at when our paths cross today and he still a gods freind !

If it’s gone on that’s not right if it’s still going on it needs to stop but sledding in cricket ain’t a new but it needs to be put in context!

atb Agriv8

[zipdog]

2 hours ago, Agriv8 said:

So the hospital our two where born at is just over Lancashire Yorkshire boarder in the good  old days there are stories of ladies about to calf  crossing there legs so that there child was Yorkshire Born. Ps my shooting pal mum was a mid wife there for 30 years and seen this first hand. 
 

The problem I have with this is that there are two sides to the storey and things were said in different times. I am not condoning racism but my old Nick name at work would no longer allowed to be used as it could be derogatory.

One of my best gaffers at work was Asian while working up through the ranks we worked shifts it used to get stressful - we would often swear at each other using terms that in this day and age would probably get us both sacked. Something that we both still have a giggle at when our paths cross today and he still a gods freind !

If it’s gone on that’s not right if it’s still going on it needs to stop but sledding in cricket ain’t a new but it needs to be put in context!

atb Agriv8

Being from Lincolnshire I can’t understand why anyone would want to be born in Yorkshire. 

I said to someone at work the other day ‘you horrible, ugly, Yorkie man'

He said back ‘I don’t mind being called horrible, I don’t mind being call ugly but don’t for the life of me call me a Yorkie.'

 

Living close to the boarder I have lots of friends who are actually from Yorkshire, and they are all lovely people, but it doesn’t stop the good old rivalry. As a comedian once said, they only time British people don’t hate their closest neighbour is when there’s someone from further away :). When there’s a southerner present we all take great pride in being northern.   

[yates]

The real issue is not so much the racism it’s the fact that Yorkshire thought that they were above the law and could what they wanted, largely ignoring the outcomes of an investigation. I’m a dyed in the wool Yorkshireman and feel that my club should be brought into the twenty first century 

[Robden]

In my day it was called "Name Calling."  The more reaction it got, the longer it went on.  Mind you, we never had 'Faceblob' or '####' then, so it soon stopped and was soon forgotten. 

[steve s×s]

9 hours ago, Agriv8 said:

So the hospital our two where born at is just over Lancashire Yorkshire boarder in the good  old days there are stories of ladies about to calf  crossing there legs so that there child was Yorkshire Born. Ps my shooting pal mum was a mid wife there for 30 years and seen this first hand. 
 

The problem I have with this is that there are two sides to the storey and things were said in different times. I am not condoning racism but my old Nick name at work would no longer allowed to be used as it could be derogatory.

One of my best gaffers at work was Asian while working up through the ranks we worked shifts it used to get stressful - we would often swear at each other using terms that in this day and age would probably get us both sacked. Something that we both still have a giggle at when our paths cross today and he still a gods freind !

If it’s gone on that’s not right if it’s still going on it needs to stop but sledding in cricket ain’t a new but it needs to be put in context!

atb Agriv8

Ha Ha can relate to this, family lived in Earby (on the ranch) I've got Skipton on birth certificate (I don't think there was any motive) 

[Yellow Bear]

11 hours ago, Agriv8 said:

One of my best gaffers at work was Asian while working up through the ranks we worked shifts it used to get stressful - we would often swear at each other using terms that in this day and age would probably get us both sacked.

Sadly not so - the current situation is that you would be deemed to have started it and he just responded and would get off scot free (and probably get a payment to boot),  and  before  some of our more "liberal" member say this is not so I have seen it in action.

[Smokersmith]

Standard advice is to not say anything at work that you wouldn’t be ashamed to say in the cold light of day, infront of a judge in court.

 

[12gauge82]

23 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

Standard advice is to not say anything at work that you wouldn’t be ashamed to say in the cold light of day, infront of a judge in court.

 

Totally understand why that is good advice, but what a world to live in, people spend half their waking lives in work. 

[The Heron]

15 hours ago, RCB56 said:

Up until 1991 if you weren't born in Yorkshire you could not play for them. The first overseas player was a young Indian player Satchin Tendulker.

Was he any good 🤣 🤣 

[RCB56]

40 minutes ago, The Heron said:

Was he any good 🤣 🤣 

The highest Test run score of all time, so he wasn't a bad batsman.🤣🤣🤣

1 minute ago, RCB56 said:

The highest Test run score of all time, so he wasn't a bad batsman.🤣🤣🤣

Should of been scorer