Sore shoulder - advice please

[Bobba]

Never ever in many years have I ever had sore shoulder problems with my OU’s. Decided to buy my first SxS. An SKB 200E. Kickeezee pad fitted and gun fit checked by a gun fitter. 7lb weight. Fired 60 gamebore evo 21 gram carts at the weekend and ouch. So, SxS community, any ideas of help eg softer carts, if so, recommendations. Thanks in advance

[enfieldspares]

SKB guns are notorious for having too much drop in the stock. But that, usually, would hit you in the face. Excessive recoil can be that the rims are cut too deep in the chamber (excessive headspace) so that the cartridge is slamming back against the breech rather than being held close to against it. My thoughts are that a "solid" stock...solid wood, solid rubber like a Silver's pad, or rubber as on the old AYA Cosmos is best. Usually (from experience of firing a Enfield No4 with a factory "S" short butt) a bruised shoulder is length of pull too short and gun not held tight into the shoulder.

Edited February 20, 2023 by enfieldspares

[Scully]

Time to go back to a proper gun methinks! 😉

[Ultrastu]

Man up perhaps 😄.

 

 

 

Only teasing .

[Westward]

Keep shooting the thing. Your shoulder will get used to the increased recoil.

[ditchman]

change cartridge .....some 21 gm carts can be quite punchy....like Hull for instance...

[Gunman]

May be your mount and not hanging on to it as tightly as you think esspesially if its a straight hand stock when you are used to a pistol hand .

Then again some guns do seem to kick more than others .

[Agriv8]

Shoot paper case cartridges lot more expensive but should kick less than plastic ones.

a heavier gun helps my game gun a beretta kicks like a mule compared to my browning clay buster with the same shell s

as ditchman says not all 21 gram shells are the same ! 

you can get recoil pads for shooting jackets that migh Alison be an option 

Agriv8

[London Best]

Maybe you are trying to hold the fore-end wood as if it’s an OU? 
Straighten your left? arm and hold the barrels. This will absorb much of the recoil through the arm.

[Stonepark]

Gamebore Evo are meant to be their soft shooting training cartridge.

I would suggest there is something wrong with the gun fit or your mount.

If it is only shoulder and not cheek slap, it suggests stock is not resting against your shoulder firmly when you pull the trigger.

You could try a 1\2 inch spacer under the kickeezz pad to increase the length of the stock\pull.

[JohnfromUK]

21g in a 7 lb gun should not kick badly.  My best guess is as

1 hour ago, Stonepark said:

I would suggest there is something wrong with the gun fit or your mount.

If it is only shoulder and not cheek slap, it suggests stock is not resting against your shoulder firmly when you pull the trigger.

I use everything from 21g to 30g, occasionally 32g in s/s under 7 lbs and only ever have a problem in one gun (a very light Darne that doesn't fit well and does kick), and I'm a relative scrawny lightweight myself!  I have regularly used 32g in an AyA at 6 3/4 lbs, no recoil pad (don't like them) with no troubles even in a light summer shirt.

[Bobba]

Thank you one and all for your advice which I will take on board. Two quick responses. The LOP is matched with spacers and kickeezee to my Beretta and Miroku. The stock is not a straight stock, mine is pistol grip. I may try Lyalvale super light cartridges and, possibly a shoulder pad. I do intend to get it right because I enjoyed my first outing with a SxS and surprised myself with my clay score.

[Old farrier]

Try comp X 21 grams or for a really pleasant experience try the hull subsonic 28 grams 

note I have found that a ss tends to need a slightly longer stock than a over and under 

i shoot both they are different and it’s quite a transition from one to the other 👍

[Centrepin]

Lyalvale Express super light 21 gram are the softest I've found. It's all I ever use on clays, no matter SBS or O/U.

On pigeon/crow I use up to 32 x 5s RC sipe with no problems.

Methinks you maybe need to practice your mount a little or re check the fit.

[wymberley]

Not a good idea to crack on regardless. By sheer coincidence (mentioned in cartridges/ammo) I've just been playing for my stepson before he gets heavy handed on the game next season. I have used a bit of a guesstimate for the wads and powder but reasonably so.

Both guns 6&1/2lbs:

   Standard English 1&1/16th cartridge;

   Recoil Velocity 15.3 ft/sec and Recoil Energy 24.62 ftlbs.

   My 28gr 1400 ft/sec Supreme Game:

   Recoil Velocity 15.83 ft/sec and Recoil Energy 25.3 ftlbs.

A fast heavy high pheasant load in a 7&1/2lb gun:

   Recoil Velocity 17.7 ft/sec and Recoil Energy 36.8 ftlbs.

For continuous shooting a velocity of 16ft/sec and an energy of 24 ftlbs max are suggested. 

Your load is, velocity 11.39 ft/sec and 14 .1 ftlbs in your gun. 

May just pay to see what's what as detailed above.

 

[arjimlad]

Another mention for Hull Comp X if you're doing clays, they're lovely to shoot. 

Perhaps try a slip-on pad for now to see if that makes things better. 

[JohnfromUK]

45 minutes ago, arjimlad said:

Another mention for Hull Comp X if you're doing clays, they're lovely to shoot. 

Perhaps try a slip-on pad for now to see if that makes things better. 

Agreed on Hull CompX - the 21g version is my preferred 'clay' cartridge.  Slip on pad makes sense as well.

[Walker570]

18 hours ago, Bobba said:

Never ever in many years have I ever had sore shoulder problems with my OU’s. Decided to buy my first SxS. An SKB 200E. Kickeezee pad fitted and gun fit checked by a gun fitter. 7lb weight. Fired 60 gamebore evo 21 gram carts at the weekend and ouch. So, SxS community, any ideas of help eg softer carts, if so, recommendations. Thanks in advance

Sell it and buy a 410, much more fun.

[Gunman]

4 hours ago, Bobba said:

Thank you one and all for your advice which I will take on board. Two quick responses. The LOP is matched with spacers and kickeezee to my Beretta and Miroku. The stock is not a straight stock, mine is pistol grip. I may try Lyalvale super light cartridges and, possibly a shoulder pad. I do intend to get it right because I enjoyed my first outing with a SxS and surprised myself with my clay score.

Direct comparison of stock measurements between O/U and SxS are not always what you need and sometimes they do need to differ . Drop and cast can also have an effect so if the problem continues I suggest another look at the fit .

Difficult to give to much advice without seeing you but as Enfield indicated  forend grip is something to think about . 

 

[Westley]

19 hours ago, ditchman said:

change cartridge .....some 21 gm carts can be quite punchy....like Hull for instance...

Hull Comp X are probably the 'softest' cartridges available. My semi auto will cycle almost anything...........except Comp X, even the 28 gram. They are also 65mm so I can use them in my English S x S.

[ditchman]

3 minutes ago, Westley said:

Hull Comp X are probably the 'softest' cartridges available. My semi auto will cycle almost anything...........except Comp X, even the 28 gram. They are also 65mm so I can use them in my English S x S.

i tried them in my A303...and they were difficult to cycle.....so i tried them in my AYA #2...and found them (strangley) to be a bit vicious !!!!!

[Westley]

I have just removed a Kick-eeze pad from my clay gun. I have a knackered right shoulder, so I do feel recoil. I found that my upper arm was getting bruised. I use Cheddite cartridges mainly, but I do like the Hull Superfarts, especially on the occasional 'long' target. The Hull can be a bit er......'punchy'  though  !  With the Kick-eeze pad, the gun was bouncing out of my shoulder onto my upper arm after the first shot, the second shot was then fired with the stock on my upper arm, causing the bruising.  I shoot a ProSport, which is not known for being lightweight. They only come with 2 different thickness recoil pads. Even the thinner of the 2 was too thick, the gun being a good 1/2" too long, hence my fitting a Kick-eeze pad. I now plan on trying the 18mm Beretta pad.

7 minutes ago, ditchman said:

i tried them in my A303...and they were difficult to cycle.....so i tried them in my AYA #2...and found them (strangley) to be a bit vicious !!!!!

I shoot them through my Westley which is 6lbs 3ozs and my No. 2 which is 6lbs 8ozs. with no problems. Your No.2 isn't a bit short in the stock, is it  ?

They would not cycle my 300 or 303 either.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Westley

[JohnfromUK]

I think Comp X 21g are the 'softest' of the 21g's I have tried ......... but I agree some 21gs can be quite punchy. 

I found the Eley to be particularly sharp, but it was a few years ago and they do change 'the formula' sometimes.  I had some Fiocchi tt1 21g - and they had a different problem.  Wouldn't reliably fire in any of my Merkel guns, but not a single misfire in my AyA.  (My Merkel's have I think only one other misfire I can remember with any other of many used over several years).  I think I must have had a duff batch ....... which I used up in the AyA.  They were also quite 'soft'.  I haven't tried the Gamebore version, but Hull Comp X has become my preferred one - if only partly because it is easy to get locally.

[Stonepark]

2 hours ago, Westley said:

  I shoot a ProSport, which is not known for being lightweight. They only come with 2 different thickness recoil pads. Even the thinner of the 2 was too thick, the gun being a good 1/2" too long, hence my fitting a Kick-eeze pad. I now plan on trying the 18mm Beretta pad.

 

Browning do a 12mm, 20mm and 25mm pad, assuming your gun got delivered with the latter two, perhaps getting the former might be worthwhile?

[Westley]

Not for the Prosport they don't  !  It uses a Pachmyr pad and the pads are made to fit each individual gun, they even have the guns serial number on each of the TWO pads provided. One pad is around 20mm the thicker one is around 25mm. With the thinner of the 2 pads the LOP is around 15" (depending on the adjustable trigger position) rising to 15 1/2" with the thicker pad. The 3 pads you refer to are for the standard 725 or 525 guns. I currently have a 12mm incest pad on the gun but the pad is 1/8" short all around. I have fitted a thin piece of ebonite to protect the exposed wood from damage.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Westley