This was a surprise to me.

[JDog]

Yesterday I arranged to take out an old friend from these parts on wheat stubble. 

The line I watched the previous day was not operating. I suspect this was due to a combine in operation part way along it. There was dust everywhere. There was another weak line which is what I set up on.

This friend is a game shooter. I have heard of his exploits from himself and others whilst I have been in Lincolnshire. This would be out of his comfort zone. 

I put him in the best place under an Oak tree and set up my hide on the only bush in a fence line 60m to his left. The rotary and decoy pattern were designed for his benefit. I would have a go at those pigeons skirting the pattern on my side.

To say he struggled would be an understatement. He was just not on long crossers nor birds decoying and losing height. Twice he asked me to stand behind him to see where his aim was. I couldn't really help.

In three hours of shooting he fired 105 cartridges for fourteen pigeons. 

He messaged me this morning saying he couldn't sleep as he was thinking about what I may have thought of his poor performance. If truth be known he actually went up in my estimation as he stuck at it to the end.

Two pints of Wadworths 6x went down quickly at the end of our session.

[Good shot?]

I feel for him, l am sure we all have had a bad day (days) in the past and know how frustrating it is.

I wish him the best of luck and a couple more days of practice till he can get a better result.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Good shot?

[Scully]

Comes as no surprise really; the number of times I’ve heard people say that the more time they spend decoying the better they do at driven. 
There is no comparison really in my opinion, between the two disciplines, especially with partridge or pheasant. 
The variety and sheer unpredictability of pigeons ( and to a lesser extent corvids ) is so that not even clays will prep you for decoying pigeon. 
Pigeon decoying is without doubt the best shooting you can get, and providing the birds were there in numbers I would gladly pass up a days driven ( of any kind ) in favour of a days decoying. 

[PeterHenry]

We've all been there - just need to chalk it down as a humbling experience and make sure it doesn't keep nibbling away in the back of your mind.

When it happens to me, I'll go clay pigeon shooting the day after to confirm to myself that I can still shoot. Although, as Scully said - its a completely different game - it still reassures me.

Edited August 23, 2023 by PeterHenry

[yickdaz]

19 minutes ago, Scully said:

Comes as no surprise really; the number of times I’ve heard people say that the more time they spend decoying the better they do at driven. 
There is no comparison really in my opinion, between the two disciplines, especially with partridge or pheasant. 
The variety and sheer unpredictability of pigeons ( and to a lesser extent corvids ) is so that not even clays will prep you for decoying pigeon. 
Pigeon decoying is without doubt the best shooting you can get, and providing the birds were there in numbers

I would gladly pass up a days driven ( of any kind ) in favour of a days decoying. 

So would i

[ditchman]

1 hour ago, JDog said:

Yesterday I arranged to take out an old friend from these parts on wheat stubble. 

The line I watched the previous day was not operating. I suspect this was due to a combine in operation part way along it. There was dust everywhere. There was another weak line which is what I set up on.

This friend is a game shooter. I have heard of his exploits from himself and others whilst I have been in Lincolnshire. This would be out of his comfort zone. 

I put him in the best place under an Oak tree and set up my hide on the only bush in a fence line 60m to his left. The rotary and decoy pattern were designed for his benefit. I would have a go at those pigeons skirting the pattern on my side.

To say he struggled would be an understatement. He was just not on long crossers nor birds decoying and losing height. Twice he asked me to stand behind him to see where his aim was. I couldn't really help.

In three hours of shooting he fired 105 cartridges for fourteen pigeons. 

He messaged me this morning saying he couldn't sleep as he was thinking about what I may have thought of his poor performance. If truth be known he actually went up in my estimation as he stuck at it to the end.

Two pints of Wadworths 6x went down quickly at the end of our session.

a proper good report 

[aga man]

Nothing worse than having JDog watch you shoot🫣

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[eggy74]

I know its not everyone's cup of tea, but a Shotcam really helped me see where i was going wrong when I first started pigeon shooting. I bought one 2nd hand for 400 quid and sold it a year later for 360 so not expensive when you think about it. Now i can get 15 pigeons for 104 shots!!!

[Old Boggy]

Many thanks for your report which is a bit of an eye opener, but perhaps not uncommon.

I too took an avid game shooter out decoying a few years ago and I was surprised that a similar performance ensued.

Not being a game shooter myself with very little knowledge of driven shooting I can only assume that it was the unpredictability of the humble pigeon that got the better of your friend.

Also perhaps, any movement prior to taking on the bird could have been a contributory factor as I assume whilst driven shooting it isn`t quite so alarming to a pheasant as any slight movement is to a pigeon and so making the shot more difficult if the bird flares away. We as pigeon shooters seem to know when to take the shot for the maximum result whereas perhaps a game shooter doesn`t have this experience.

Having said all of that, I certainly wouldn`t put myself up against a game shooter on driven pheasants as I would probably perform abominably. Horses for courses and all that.

OB

Edited August 23, 2023 by Old Boggy

[marsh man]

The shoe could easily be on the other foot if a person had been decoying for a good many years and had never stood on a peg game shooting .

Decoying is mainly about timing and the more time you spend in a hide then the more you can start to read the Pigeons intention , many a time you watch a Pigeon making it's way accross a field heading towards your set up knowing there is a good chance he or she is going to come right into your decoy pattern , it is then up to you when you want to pull the trigger , then you watch one that cannot make up it's mind and you know the only chance you are going to get if it happen to come into range .

The use of magnets make life a bit harder because the gadjet can bring them into towards your set up and then they take avassive action when it is 50 / 60 yards away as something do not look right with maybe glinting arms catching the sun when revolving round .

Anyhow , after spending many , many years looking through a net you can get some right but there are still many that make your way of thinking compleatly negitive 

[jall25]

I wonder if he was trying to shoot sitting down - i really struggle with that - but practice has made me a little better 

[JDog]

3 hours ago, aga man said:

Nothing worse than having JDog watch you shoot🫣

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What could you possibly mean?

[aga man]

Always found your presence imparted some sort of pressure & doddlers become so easy to miss!😆

That was one of my excuses anyway!

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by aga man

[GingerCat]

The term "doddler" was universal and I had many an amusing hour shouting it at jdog with similar effect, almost a magical word that can make the easiest, almost stationary 20 yard bird impossible to hit. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Gordon Bennett!    

[Wilts#Dave]

I bet the poor chap wanted to curl up and die! Was he shooting at birds too far away / flaring or just having a really bad day? 
That must have been equally frustrating for you watching actually. 

[kitchrat]

On 23/08/2023 at 05:44, marsh man said:

The shoe could easily be on the other foot if a person had been decoying for a good many years and had never stood on a peg game shooting .

Decoying is mainly about timing and the more time you spend in a hide then the more you can start to read the Pigeons intention , many a time you watch a Pigeon making it's way accross a field heading towards your set up knowing there is a good chance he or she is going to come right into your decoy pattern , it is then up to you when you want to pull the trigger , then you watch one that cannot make up it's mind and you know the only chance you are going to get if it happen to come into range .

The use of magnets make life a bit harder because the gadjet can bring them into towards your set up and then they take avassive action when it is 50 / 60 yards away as something do not look right with maybe glinting arms catching the sun when revolving round .

Anyhow , after spending many , many years looking through a net you can get some right but there are still many that make your way of thinking compleatly negitive 

Yes MM, the boot can be on the other foot. I had quite a good winter on the pigeons, although they were hard to decoy, including a 109 day, last year. However, on the few driven days I went on I was abysmal! This in spite of having done a good number of driven days in earlier years, and scored well. I don't know if I couldn't get the speed right or treated them as too easy but I missed more than I hit, including some easy cocks on a beaters day. In fact, I did better on the hardest ones so maybe I was too casual. Need to do better this year!

[marsh man]

15 minutes ago, kitchrat said:

Yes MM, the boot can be on the other foot. I had quite a good winter on the pigeons, although they were hard to decoy, including a 109 day, last year. However, on the few driven days I went on I was abysmal! This in spite of having done a good number of driven days in earlier years, and scored well. I don't know if I couldn't get the speed right or treated them as too easy but I missed more than I hit, including some easy cocks on a beaters day. In fact, I did better on the hardest ones so maybe I was too casual. Need to do better this year!

I know exactly what you mean , the late , great Archie Coates once said his average was slightly better at roost shooting than he done at decoying mainly because it it snap shooting , where standing on a peg you can see them at a distance and you have a great deal of time to take your shot , at decoying he recon two shots for one Pigeon was acceptable but three shots for two Pigeons over decoys was more of a average.

I wander if clay shooters find it harder to shoot driven game , or Pigeon shooting in general ?? , although I did know a bloke who was in our shoot who was an excellent shot at both Pigeons and clays , he often shot at Bidwell's and I did hear that John Bidwell recon with more tuition he was good enough to shoot at county level or possibly for his country , he was more interested in Pigeon shooting because at the time we could sell everthing we got and clays shooting was expensive then and still is now and we all had fairly short pockets .   MM

[bunny_blaster]

I have a friend who is a very good clay shot but put him in a hide or on a driven day and he can’t hit f##k all! It’s a completely different style of shooting

[Mightymariner]

On 23/08/2023 at 11:10, JDog said:

In three hours of shooting he fired 105 cartridges for fourteen pigeons. 

Sounds like me!

Fair play to him for sticking at it. I would have given up.

I hardly do any game shooting but I am not very good at it, especially when I have plenty of notice of birds approaching and can see them coming from a way off. I much prefer pigeon shooting, especially if I can set my hide up so I am 'surprised' by birds and have little time to think.

[marsh man]

7 hours ago, bunny_blaster said:

I have a friend who is a very good clay shot but put him in a hide or on a driven day and he can’t hit f##k all! It’s a completely different style of shooting

Hi Ben    You shoot as many Pigeons as anyone on the forum so what would be roughly your average throughout the year , I would have thought 2 out of 3 is about right , but if I remember rightly the late Archie Coates fired around 650 shots when he got his record bag , he was no doubt a very good shot and shooting 5.5 out of 6.5 throughout the day is way behind me , yes you do get little spells where you get your eye in but you also get little spells where you can't drop a thing and also there is a lot of difference in what you click on the clicker and what you pick up when the day draw to a close .

[Ultrastu]

As for averages .I'm always happy to finish on a 2:1 ratio sometimes I can go 10 + shots for 10+  birds and then miss everything for the next 10 shots .

The key really is to only pull the trigger on the birds you know are in range and present a kill shot as opposed to say a high flying one going away 40 yds out its never gonna drop . 

I shot pretty well today with my .410 for an hour the birds just turned on and I must have hit 3:2 ratio .

But again I waited till the birds were within 30 yds and presenting well .

As said above that's the real key to pigeon decoying and making a bag .

[hushpower]

Were they in range?  Was it very windy ?what type cartridge. Chokes?..so many variables. I would start at the bottom and  suggest a eye test ...well done to him a bet he enjoyed himself though  he had some shooting

[bunny_blaster]

On 28/08/2023 at 18:19, marsh man said:

Hi Ben    You shoot as many Pigeons as anyone on the forum so what would be roughly your average throughout the year , I would have thought 2 out of 3 is about right , but if I remember rightly the late Archie Coates fired around 650 shots when he got his record bag , he was no doubt a very good shot and shooting 5.5 out of 6.5 throughout the day is way behind me , yes you do get little spells where you get your eye in but you also get little spells where you can't drop a thing and also there is a lot of difference in what you click on the clicker and what you pick up when the day draw to a close .

I’ve never worked my average out to be honest. Without sounding big headed i like to think I’m a fairly decent shot but I’m shooting 3 days a week on average. Let’s say out of 50 decoyed pigeons I’d like to see 45 of them on the floor. The day PC and I shot 800+ I took 520 of them for I think 625 shots, I remember this as I had 600 shells in the truck and used the last one with 499 down. I rang PC and told him I’d finished and what I was on and he walked a box of cartridges over to me saying you can’t finish on that number! My best cartridge to bird ratio I’ve ever done was 133 pigeons for 136 shots as that’s all the cartridges I had with me. It was small corner of a field of spring rape they had grazed off low and every shot was the same and nothing was more than 20 yards away

[marsh man]

4 minutes ago, bunny_blaster said:

I’ve never worked my average out to be honest. Without sounding big headed i like to think I’m a fairly decent shot but I’m shooting 3 days a week on average. Let’s say out of 50 decoyed pigeons I’d like to see 45 of them on the floor. The day PC and I shot 800+ I took 520 of them for I think 625 shots, I remember this as I had 600 shells in the truck and used the last one with 499 down. I rang PC and told him I’d finished and what I was on and he walked a box of cartridges over to me saying you can’t finish on that number! My best cartridge to bird ratio I’ve ever done was 133 pigeons for 136 shots as that’s all the cartridges I had with me. It was small corner of a field of spring rape they had grazed off low and every shot was the same and nothing was more than 20 yards away

133 out of 136 is certainly some shooting even with most of the Pigeons creating the same type of shot , I know it is possible on a lesser scale as me and another Pigeon shooter once sat in the hedge with my brother shooting over decoys on a field of Peas , his main gun at the time he used for Pigeon shooting was a cheap A Y A Yeomen , he bored both chokes out and if he wore the firing pins out he bought a couple from the local gun shop and then put them in the gun himself , on the afternoon we sat with him he was shooting every Pigeon that came in , we never saw him miss one and he ended up picking up 48 out of 50 , he did say later that he did shoot two with one shot , even so it was still good shooting .

Do you shoot any game or wildfowl ? , and if you do , how do you find them compared with Pigeons ?