Simply rude people!

[motty]

4 hours ago, millrace said:

Hes a disgruntled customer who thinks you have done him a wrong turn......welcome to the world of running a buisness.....if you stick it long enough he wont be the last to voice displeasure....

Really that is all this event is,,turning it into something else is a bit much....weve all had bad days dont mean we should lose our guns....

 

I totally agree. I think it is a bit much to suggest he should lose his gun/s just because he had a little hissy fit.

[Duckandswing]

I cannot abide being sworn at, there is rarely a need. This certainly isn’t a scenario that warranted abusive language.

i mean really? Swearing like that in a shop full stop is wrong, but in a gun shop at an RFD? 

An apology is required from the gentleman as a bare minimum.

If no apology is forthcoming then there is no remorse for his actions and he clearly believes such behaviour to be the norm. Which is wrong in my opinion.

 

 

[andrewluke]

shooters portray themselves whiter than white because they hold certificates,they may be most of the times but always??,i doubt it

[mel b3]

One thing is for sure Edd, this thread will have lost you many future customers mate . Their will be dozens of future or existing customers ,that are reading this thread , and quietly telling themselves to steer clear of ever buying a gun from you, and financially, it will probably cost you many times the value of his cheap shotgun.

You need to put yourself in the customers position, he bought a gun ,and it went wrong , he took it back to the shop ,and was told that nothing was wrong with it ,he's bound to feel a bit miffed mate , and now to think that you might try to have his sgc taken away is quite shocking.

You started the thread in an attempt to gain suport from the pw membership, now can you imagine if the customer had been a pw member ,and had posted how he had bought a new gun from an rfd ,the gun had then failed ,only to be told by the rfd that the gun was fine ? , the pw members would be screaming for the rfd to be nailed to the cross,and to be publicly named and shamed.

The guy may well already be posting about you on another forum or Facebook, and he will certainly be making sure that none of his shooting mates ever buy a gun from you, and they're the local customers that you need in a shop.

The fact that he forgot his sgc is his own fault ,yes a reminder wouldn't hurt ,but ultimately, it's his responsibility. 

I'm sorry if my post sounds harsh mate ,its certainly not meant to ,but , it's the reality of the way that the thread has gone.

Edited December 31, 2017 by mel b3

[al4x]

Look at this from another angle, he is older generation, you checked his ticket when you sold the gun so know at that point he had one.  

Many shops over the years wouldn’t check upon return so I am guessing he will be used to this and was as upset at his own failing as anything and you bore the brunt verbally. 

I would take it on the chin as one of those things, treat it as one of those things and some people do go through life like this. 

The other side of things is you never know quite who you are falling out with and how it will affect business, shooters have a habit of knowing lots of other shooters and will definitely voice their opinion whether right or not if they think they have been wronged 

[martyn2233]

1 hour ago, mel b3 said:

One thing is for sure Edd, this thread will have lost you many future customers mate . Their will be dozens of future or existing customers ,that are reading this thread , and quietly telling themselves to steer clear of ever buying a gun from you, and financially, it will probably cost you many times the value of his cheap shotgun.

You need to put yourself in the customers position, he bought a gun ,and it went wrong , he took it back to the shop ,and was told that nothing was wrong with it ,he's bound to feel a bit miffed mate , and now to think that you might try to have his sgc taken away is quite shocking.

You started the thread in an attempt to gain suport from the pw membership, now can you imagine if the customer had been a pw member ,and had posted how he had bought a new gun from an rfd ,the gun had then failed ,only to be told by the rfd that the gun was fine ? , the pw members would be screaming for the rfd to be nailed to the cross,and to be publicly named and shamed.

The guy may well already be posting about you on another forum or Facebook, and he will certainly be making sure that none of his shooting mates ever buy a gun from you, and they're the local customers that you need in a shop.

The fact that he forgot his sgc is his own fault ,yes a reminder wouldn't hurt ,but ultimately, it's his responsibility. 

I'm sorry if my post sounds harsh mate ,its certainly not meant to ,but , it's the reality of the way that the thread has gone.

+1

[Zapp]

Not sure what it is about this thread that is making people forget the house rules, but since we are now into double figures of edits to posts and two warnings for swear filter evasion:

Swearing is not permitted on the forum and must be blanked out in full.

Therefore if you want to say "abcde", "*****" is fine, but "a***e" is not.

It is your responsibility to check your posts to ensure they are within the terms of the user agreement.

This rule is incredibly simple to grasp and all users agree to abide by it on joining.

No more please.

 

[millrace]

3 hours ago, mel b3 said:

One thing is for sure Edd, this thread will have lost you many future customers mate . Their will be dozens of future or existing customers ,that are reading this thread , and quietly telling themselves to steer clear of ever buying a gun from you, and financially, it will probably cost you many times the value of his cheap shotgun.

You need to put yourself in the customers position, he bought a gun ,and it went wrong , he took it back to the shop ,and was told that nothing was wrong with it ,he's bound to feel a bit miffed mate , and now to think that you might try to have his sgc taken away is quite shocking.

You started the thread in an attempt to gain suport from the pw membership, now can you imagine if the customer had been a pw member ,and had posted how he had bought a new gun from an rfd ,the gun had then failed ,only to be told by the rfd that the gun was fine ? , the pw members would be screaming for the rfd to be nailed to the cross,and to be publicly named and shamed.

The guy may well already be posting about you on another forum or Facebook, and he will certainly be making sure that none of his shooting mates ever buy a gun from you, and they're the local customers that you need in a shop.

The fact that he forgot his sgc is his own fault ,yes a reminder wouldn't hurt ,but ultimately, it's his responsibility. 

I'm sorry if my post sounds harsh mate ,its certainly not meant to ,but , it's the reality of the way that the thread has gone.

Edd read this and move on....and reconsider why you need opinions of people on the internet you dont know to advise you on running a buisness.............!

[eddoakley]

Looking at all of the replies since my last post kind of put things into perspective.

My initial post was just relating a tale of how I was surprised and annoyed at the action/reaction of someone whom I had expected different. 

I'm not someone who is rude (depends who you ask) but certainly wouldn't shout and swear at someone, especially over my own error.

I have said several times that I had not even considered any action such as contacting the FEO and it was only the suggestions here and from a couple of mates who knew about it that made me think about it.

I have also said several times that I didn't consider there to be aggressive behaviour or threats in the way that would definitely warrant contacting the feo.

As for whether or not it would be good for business- I don't care. I would have to do the right thing morally before worrying about financial consequences.

But all in all as much as it may still be just that little niggle in the back of my mind I think that is just because it's been blown out of proportion and the right thing to do is leave things as they are, post the letter asking him to be more civil when he collects his gun and just move on.

 

Edd

 

[stumfelter]

To all the people that think the feo should be informed do you also think that the keeper should be reported when your in the beating line and he's losing his rag because the drives not going well.

[Rst1990]

32 minutes ago, stumfelter said:

To all the people that think the feo should be informed do you also think that the keeper should be reported when your in the beating line and he's losing his rag because the drives not going well.

Yep, report that man!

[Wb123]

4 hours ago, mel b3 said:

One thing is for sure Edd, this thread will have lost you many future customers mate . Their will be dozens of future or existing customers ,that are reading this thread , and quietly telling themselves to steer clear of ever buying a gun from you, and financially, it will probably cost you many times the value of his cheap shotgun.

You need to put yourself in the customers position, he bought a gun ,and it went wrong , he took it back to the shop ,and was told that nothing was wrong with it ,he's bound to feel a bit miffed mate , and now to think that you might try to have his sgc taken away is quite shocking.

You started the thread in an attempt to gain suport from the pw membership, now can you imagine if the customer had been a pw member ,and had posted how he had bought a new gun from an rfd ,the gun had then failed ,only to be told by the rfd that the gun was fine ? , the pw members would be screaming for the rfd to be nailed to the cross,and to be publicly named and shamed.

The guy may well already be posting about you on another forum or Facebook, and he will certainly be making sure that none of his shooting mates ever buy a gun from you, and they're the local customers that you need in a shop.

The fact that he forgot his sgc is his own fault ,yes a reminder wouldn't hurt ,but ultimately, it's his responsibility. 

I'm sorry if my post sounds harsh mate ,its certainly not meant to ,but , it's the reality of the way that the thread has gone.

 

I'm not sure I agree entirely. I have a batch of cartridges with duff primers that frequently don't fire in all my shotguns. Should I be returning shotguns or cartridges over the matter? It would not be reasonable in my mind for a dealer to take a hit on the shotguns over it.

 

I do agree that I would be very hesitant to shop there if I heard that an argument appeared to lead to loss of the chaps sgc.

[Bigbob]

this is why i dont have a job  dealing with the public my second word would be off , but im all for live and let live unless it involves me or mine  hope it all works out 

[stumfelter]

4 minutes ago, Bigbob said:

this is why i dont have a job  dealing with the public my second word would be off , but im all for live and let live unless it involves me or mine  hope it all works out 

Whatever you do don't let anybody off here know where you live, your feo's phone will be red hot. ??

[Wb123]

11 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

What’s your job and what do you mean by ‘turn it on’ ? 

I guess it depends on the legality of your reason for the threat / statement. 

Ive had some very dangerous situations at work with people coming at you with knives etc and had to tell them “you keep coming with that this is only going to end one way... with you on the floor...” this is all whilst awaiting Police assistance who are on the way. 

In your work If someone claimed you’d threatened them, and took this to the Police etc, do you think the Police and ultimately a Judge would accept that you were “just pretending to threaten” or “turning it on”?? 

I work in a profoundly underresourced part of the civil service where frequently a debate has to be had about what work will not get done but all of it is in theory at least safety critical. Often this ends up being sorted out by people further towards the bottom of the food chain who cannot get all the required work done with the available resources, they essentially end up deciding what doesn't happen when a grossly unrealistic set of tasks are requested. My job involves making sure work under my name doesn't get excessively compromised.

Usually this can be achieved with a little give and take outlining what can be dropped or delayed and what can't. Most of the people lower down will bend over backwards to get everything they can done and will work their backsides off to keep everyone happy so letting some stuff go isn't a problem. But rarely compromise is not possible and occasionally competing interests for resources are also not in a position to compromise, here the chaps at the bottom have to decide who to leave with a sodding great big mess.

I dont threaten individuals with violence, though I may threaten to discuss with line managers or members of management known for being deeply unpleasant. I will where required use excessive eye contact, draw myself up to my full height, move a few inches closer, and question how they intend to justify each omission when I take this up the food chain. I have no doubt it can be highly intimidating (that's the point) but there is no threat of physical danger. 

Fortunately I have to do this once a year or less and the reputation carries. I was taught it as a 'management strategy' which was an essential tool to master, though in reality we all know it is being a ****. 

[panoma1]

There is a thin line between being a manager and being a bully, a manager worthy of the name will not step over that line! But in my experience they are few and far between.....I have some sympathy with this because if the manager won't do it, someone else will! employers want the job done and most dont care how their managers achieved this!

Welcome to the real world of being an employee!

[Wb123]

10 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

There is a thin line between being a manager and being a bully, a manager worthy of the name will not step over that line! But in my experience they are few and far between.....I have some sympathy with this because if the manager won't do it, someone else will! employers want the job done and most dont care how their managers achieved this!

Welcome to the real world of being an employee!

It is frustrating, I hate doing it and reserve it for very rare occasions only. Sadly there are occasions where it is the only way to get results as no extra resources will be forthcoming.

Fortunately it is something that has never had to feature in my personal life. A little charm seems to get you anywhere when systems have enough slack. 

[Bigbob]

As i look at my Grumpy tshirt  i'm thinking the wife and kids are trying to tell me something , my son says i've got a problem with keepers in 4x4s  but at my time of live i'm no for taking any **** and see it as it is  and say it as it is if i get permission and instructions from the land owner there boss that's how the job will be done .

Weve a new boss at work and hes trying to make his mark but hes a barstool and it comes back to bite him every time he wants guys to swap shifts or help him as said a good boss is worth there weight in gold and there workers respect and work harder under them if there coming and going on both sides 

[Seadog1408]

1 hour ago, Wb123 said:

 

I dont threaten individuals with violence, though I may threaten to discuss with line managers or members of management known for being deeply unpleasant. I will where required use excessive eye contact, draw myself up to my full height, move a few inches closer, and question how they intend to justify each omission when I take this up the food chain. I have no doubt it can be highly intimidating (that's the point) but there is no threat of physical danger. 

 

Ha ha ha, "turn it on"?, more like "bang and a whimper"

[Wb123]

26 minutes ago, Seadog1408 said:

Ha ha ha, "turn it on"?, more like "bang and a whimper"

Some colleagues will shout and throw things. I have never yet had to try that. 

[Newbie to this]

34 minutes ago, Wb123 said:

Some colleagues will shout and throw things. I have never yet had to try that. 

Sounds like some serious retraining is needed (unless of course you're in the military, can't see any of the behaviour described being acceptable anywhere else, and maybe not even then nowadays)

[JohnfromUK]

When a reasonable complaint is raised (such as something not working right) there should be no need for swearing, abusive language or threats.  The vast majority of retailers want happy customers who will come back and spend more - and bring their friends as well.  Getting a good name for being helpful can be a positive outcome from an unfortunate problem (such as something not working right).

In the unlikely event that no progress can be made towards a solution by this method, the best way forward (in my opinion) would be to be quite clear (in a polite way) that you are not happy with the outcome or progress to an outcome, and will need to take legal advice IF there is no progress.  This can be done perfectly calmly and makes it clear that you intend to escalate the complaint.

[Gordon R]

Quote

 

I dont threaten individuals with violence, though I may threaten to discuss with line managers or members of management known for being deeply unpleasant. I will where required use excessive eye contact, draw myself up to my full height, move a few inches closer, and question how they intend to justify each omission when I take this up the food chain. I have no doubt it can be highly intimidating (that's the point) but there is no threat of physical danger. 

Fortunately I have to do this once a year or less and the reputation carries. I was taught it as a 'management strategy' which was an essential tool to master, though in reality we all know it is being a ****. 

 

You have no place in the Civil Service. You are a public servant and would do well to remember that.

[Wb123]

9 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

You have no place in the Civil Service. You are a public servant and would do well to remember that.

I tend to assume ones ultimate employer, the tax payer, wants as much of the work they think they are paying for done as possible, however unrealistic the politicians promises may be.

 

Anyhow, we have drifted a long way from the origional subject and its sideline of how unpleasant do people have to be before it merits calling their feo...

 

[walshie]

3 hours ago, Wb123 said:

I dont threaten individuals with violence, though I may threaten to discuss with line managers or members of management known for being deeply unpleasant. I will where required use excessive eye contact, draw myself up to my full height, move a few inches closer, and question how they intend to justify each omission when I take this up the food chain. I have no doubt it can be highly intimidating (that's the point) but there is no threat of physical danger. 

Fortunately I have to do this once a year or less and the reputation carries. I was taught it as a 'management strategy' which was an essential tool to master, though in reality we all know it is being a ****. 

That is appalling. Regardless of what does and doesn't get done, you can let people know you are displeased without having to resort to pseudo threats of violence and trying to gain a "reputation".or appear intimidating.  The very fact you consider yourself intimidating speaks volumes. There is no place for that in the workplace under any circumstances. It sounds like bad management if you can't get people to do what you want them to.

If you tried that in a good few places I have worked you would either get the sack or a clump in the car park after work.