old man Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 1 hour ago, hambone said: It does not matter who is negotiating! The EU want to hurt us to try and stop others leaving, it is simply not in their interest to help us. I do not think it will take long for 'no deal' to bite European countries (German cars, French wine etc) before they want to resume trade. Why give them anything voluntarily when they are being obstructive? My decision was made a few weeks ago, being sick of their constant threats. Now buying from anywhere but not EU goods knowingly. I think I can get by ok with a bit of effort. Maybe suggest we all do the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 I find it quite funny, if stuff isn't there we will just buy something different. It's not like the shelves will be empty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Mice! said: I find it quite funny, if stuff isn't there we will just buy something different. It's not like the shelves will be empty I don't need a BMW, Mercedes, Blaser or plonk made in Germany. I have two HW's, a 98 and a 77 but I might rename them Churchill for spite. I certainly don't want a French car regardless because I don't believe that they have ever made a good one. I would buy a Ferrari, Maserati or a high grade Beretta from Italy because they have been well **** on by the EU too. No idea what the rest of you think, but anything I need I would probably get from the UK or anywhere else in the world except Europe. ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aled Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 8 hours ago, hambone said: It does not matter who is negotiating! The EU want to hurt us to try and stop others leaving, it is simply not in their interest to help us. I do not think it will take long for 'no deal' to bite European countries (German cars, French wine etc) before they want to resume trade. Why give them anything voluntarily when they are being obstructive? I think you have a point here, the EU will do everything within their power to make sure that we are worse off outside the EU than inside it...from their perspective I don't blame them...right then there are a load of you on here who know far more about economics and financial management than a single Bank of England employee or politician. Stop being voices from the side lines, join a political party and put that superior knowledge to good use and stand for election and ensure the UK is that rip roaring political and economic success you all claim we will be post Brexit. 52% of the population is totally behind you. Cheers Aled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted August 6, 2018 Report Share Posted August 6, 2018 4 hours ago, Aled said: I think you have a point here, the EU will do everything within their power to make sure that we are worse off outside the EU than inside it...from their perspective I don't blame them...right then there are a load of you on here who know far more about economics and financial management than a single Bank of England employee or politician. Stop being voices from the side lines, join a political party and put that superior knowledge to good use and stand for election and ensure the UK is that rip roaring political and economic success you all claim we will be post Brexit. 52% of the population is totally behind you. Cheers Aled If we have a hard/clean brexit, it will put us beyond the reaches of the EU giving us a bad deal, so that's what I'm hoping for. I don't think anyone on here has said they know more than A bank of England employee, what has been said by people on here, me included, is that it seems obvious Carney has lied/exaggerated and shown political bias by sticking his nose into brexit, you don't need to be a financial expert to see that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted August 6, 2018 Report Share Posted August 6, 2018 Quote I think you have a point here, the EU will do everything within their power to make sure that we are worse off outside the EU than inside it...from their perspective I don't blame them...right then there are a load of you on here who know far more about economics and financial management than a single Bank of England employee or politician. Stop being voices from the side lines, join a political party and put that superior knowledge to good use and stand for election and ensure the UK is that rip roaring political and economic success you all claim we will be post Brexit. 52% of the population is totally behind you. Cheers Aled Leaving aside the timetable to get elected or the inclination to be a pig at the trough, I assume that you rate Diane Abbott as more intelligent than Forum members. You seem to have a simplistic approach which suggests that anyone who is one of the 52% has superior intelligence. Point taken, I think you are correct. Perhaps the Remoaners should stop being voices from the side lines, join a political party and put that inferior knowledge to good use and stand for election and ensure the UK is that rip roaring political and economic success . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aled Posted August 6, 2018 Report Share Posted August 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Gordon R said: Leaving aside the timetable to get elected or the inclination to be a pig at the trough, I assume that you rate Diane Abbott as more intelligent than Forum members. You seem to have a simplistic approach which suggests that anyone who is one of the 52% has superior intelligence. Point taken, I think you are correct. Perhaps the Remoaners should stop being voices from the side lines, join a political party and put that inferior knowledge to good use and stand for election and ensure the UK is that rip roaring political and economic success . LOL Nice response. But seriously though many of you on here are stating that we should just walk away and leave the EU with no deal. Fine if it genuinely is in our best interests why hasn't a single politician (to the best of my knowledge or Has J R-Moggie said something?) or economist stated that's what we should do? Why did Davies (a staunch supporter of Brexit) waste 18months at the negotiating table? Doesn't make sense. Cheers Aled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 6, 2018 Report Share Posted August 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, Aled said: But seriously though many of you on here are stating that we should just walk away and leave the EU with no deal. This is misleading; we have offered LOADS of concessions, along with £39 BILLION. In my view we have offered far too much. We will not be walking away without having tried. The EU on the other hand has offered next to nothing - and has done it's best to drive us away. IT IS THE EU that needs to actually start negotiating (as opposed to posturing) to prevent us walking away; there is not much more we can give! The way Barnier & Co have behaved, I have strong 'good riddance' views now, despite having actually voted remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 6, 2018 Report Share Posted August 6, 2018 40 minutes ago, Aled said: LOL Nice response. But seriously though many of you on here are stating that we should just walk away and leave the EU with no deal. Fine if it genuinely is in our best interests why hasn't a single politician (to the best of my knowledge or Has J R-Moggie said something?) or economist stated that's what we should do? Why did Davies (a staunch supporter of Brexit) waste 18months at the negotiating table? Doesn't make sense. Cheers Aled It would have been nice if the EU had behaved in a normal ,adult manner, and tried to fashion a deal with us that was mutually beneficial. We didnt ask for a lot, it wasnt a cake and eat it bargain, we just wanted to part ways amicably, whilst continuing the trade between us and Europe. A trade we have had for hundreds, maybe thousands of years, strangely without the EUs assistance. A cynical person might look at he behaviour of the EU, thinking that, after all those years, they are now going to try to frustrate that trade, causing not only us harm, but themselves ? Why would they do that ? Ive stated this quite a few times on these threads now, but to further clarify the point, what are the EU for ? What is their purpose ? Surely it is to make the people of Europe more prosperous, secure, and promote cohesion throughout Europe, whether they are EU members or not ? Yes it is a protectionist bloc, but surely if a non member country borders a member, there is no good in having poor relations between those two countries ? Indeed there are many non EU countries, who enjoy frictionless movement and trade with EU members. So why is our case so different ? Is it because we are the first big p(l)ayer to want to leave, is the EU so fragile that it cannot stand the departure of us ? Ive seen nothing from them that seems to respect our decision, our vote, Ive seen a lot of intransigence, threats and weirdly blame ! Its our FAULT this has happened, what a strange attitude, Im aware they are not the most democratic organisation, but to take this stance does sort of bring it home. Why shouldnt we leave ? There is virtually no partnership status in the civilised world that forbids a split, yes it can be acrimonious, but its accepted that a clean break is usually beneficial to both sides. There is a saying about the EU , if we were not already a member, would we join ? With the general majority answer being, not on your nelly ! To answer your question Aled, no one wanted to make a hard, no deal Brexit as the first choice, it wasnt a sensible choice in the first instance. Some of the staunchest Brexiteers did say it early on, but it was the bull at a gate scenario. We have offered far far more than I believe we should in negotiations, we have rolled over on so many things, and received not much of nothing in return. Why ? Re read from the top, they CANNOT do it , us leaving pulls a cornerstone out from the EU bloc work. When the second biggest contributor wants out, when one of the biggest markets wants out, when a player like the UK says its time to leave, the other members start thinking about the structure and integrity of the house. Call it rats/ sinking ship mentality , but its not exactly an unsound strategy. Ill say it again, the EU is fighting for survival here, its negotiating strategy is geared up to either overturn Brexit, or make Brexit such an unholy mess, that few others would consider leaving, members with more fragile economies than ours would struggle with the uncertainty. You need to think laterally about it, the ship will sink eventually, the rats will leave, its a foregone conclusion. No deal has been touted by many economists, as not half as bad as some other economists make it out to be, you have men like Carney and his ilk putting definitive figures on Brexit , 'Its cost us £900 per household ALREADY' or ' It will make us poorer by £4300 per year worse off' projections. No hard deal scenario has put forward figures, because they have at least got the honesty and integrity to say, they dont know, or it might not be good for a while. You have to respect that honesty, it could be great, it might take while to get over the initial shock to the markets ,especially in a cliff edge scenario. The pound may well plummet, and the markets will dip, for a while. The sooner we tackle it head on the better, give the EU the hard Brexit it thinks will break us, I believe we can survive it , and prosper, a lot easier than some think. I know the EU will not fare so well, many of the rats are restless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 7, 2018 Report Share Posted August 7, 2018 Brexapocalypse latest, if we go no deal in March 19, by August we 'could' be starving to death according to the NFU. Thats of course if no one in Europe wants to sell us food, and the EU blockades all our ports and airfields from the rest of the world. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/07/uk-run-out-of-food-no-deal-brexit-national-farmers-union Youve got to admire the depth and imagination of the people who write these articles, they are wasted in the media. They should be writing Hollywood disaster movies really, the ones they show on SYFY and the other rubbisher cable channels. What next? The Russkies or Chinese will invade us, and the EU will stand by and just watch because we arent a member? Mind you they pretty much did that with the break up of Yugoslavia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted August 7, 2018 Report Share Posted August 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Rewulf said: What next? The Russkies or Chinese will invade us, and the EU will stand by and just watch because we arent a member? Mind you they pretty much did that with the break up of Yugoslavia. Well, a member state armed the Argentines when we were a war with them, so nothing would surprise me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted August 7, 2018 Report Share Posted August 7, 2018 Are the German and French car manufacturers really going to sit back and really accept no deal? When they know the Japanese, Korean and American car manufacturers are just itching to steal their market share? Barnier is playing a very egotistical game. I don't think he even understands the implications Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 7, 2018 Report Share Posted August 7, 2018 26 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: Well, a member state armed the Argentines when we were a war with them, so nothing would surprise me. True, I was on holiday in France when it was going off, the amount of French people who mentioned how 'wrong' you British are invading those Islands ! 4 minutes ago, Vince Green said: Are the German and French car manufacturers really going to sit back and really accept no deal? When they know the Japanese, Korean and American car manufacturers are just itching to steal their market share? Barnier is playing a very egotistical game. I don't think he even understands the implications He is under instruction to smash the negotiations to pieces, look at his body language , his rhetoric. If you wanted someone to negotiate a peaceful and productive settlement, you would pick someone with steel yes, but someone who WANTED a deal. Barnier is none of these things, the talks were spiked from the start, even remainers are starting to see that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted August 7, 2018 Report Share Posted August 7, 2018 Oh role on March next year when hopefully we will be "released" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted August 7, 2018 Report Share Posted August 7, 2018 There be a mass exodus the beginning of next year, with all the doom & gloom preached by the remoaners it must have made there mind up by now... Lets face it, what's the point of stopping in the UK.. Out of interest, how many remainers have decide to leave then....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted August 7, 2018 Report Share Posted August 7, 2018 11 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said: There be a mass exodus the beginning of next year, with all the doom & gloom preached by the remoaners it must have made there mind up by now... Lets face it, what's the point of stopping in the UK.. Out of interest, how many remainers have decide to leave then....? Not enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted August 7, 2018 Report Share Posted August 7, 2018 We have all probably known somebody who has been through a difficult divorce and people in those situations can be totally bloody minded. They dig in and won't budge even though they know they can't win. Couples who end up with nothing having blown all their money on legal bills arguing over the CDs and the lawnmower. Pride comes before a fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriBsa Posted August 7, 2018 Report Share Posted August 7, 2018 32 minutes ago, Vince Green said: We have all probably known somebody who has been through a difficult divorce and people in those situations can be totally bloody minded. They dig in and won't budge even though they know they can't win. Couples who end up with nothing having blown all their money on legal bills arguing over the CDs and the lawnmower. Pride comes before a fall. Bloody minded? Not Theresa May. She has the opportunity to divorce a serial abuser but is willing to let them dictate terms and if they can't dictate quick enough throws in more concessions of her own. She want's an arrangement where they no longer appear married, but she still pays the bills, is dictated to and still gets rogered silly. She has no pride. Her only red line is her shoe collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRDS Posted August 7, 2018 Report Share Posted August 7, 2018 Her days need to be numbered to single figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted August 7, 2018 Report Share Posted August 7, 2018 In the film The Dark Knight, Batman is locked in a fight to the death with the Joker, at one stage the Joker gets up after being knocked down and says a line that is almost brilliant, he says "You can't hurt somebody that doesn't care" That is so true, I have adopted it as my motto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 17 hours ago, Rewulf said: He is under instruction to smash the negotiations to pieces, look at his body language , his rhetoric. If you wanted someone to negotiate a peaceful and productive settlement, you would pick someone with steel yes, but someone who WANTED a deal. Barnier is none of these things, the talks were spiked from the start, even remainers are starting to see that now Op-ed by Michel Barnier, the European Commission's Chief Negotiator for the negotiations with the United Kingdom - 2 August 2018 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/news/ambitious-partnership-uk-after-brexit-2018-aug-02_en Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 I still think that the deal is already done and we are merely being fed a pantomime to try and appease those of us who see democracy being ignored and thus killed off! Mrs May is one of THEM,not US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Retsdon said: Op-ed by Michel Barnier, the European Commission's Chief Negotiator for the negotiations with the United Kingdom - 2 August 2018 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/news/ambitious-partnership-uk-after-brexit-2018-aug-02_en Doesnt sound like the words of Barnier. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/02/uks-brexit-proposals-threaten-future-of-eu-says-barnier https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-barnier/more-questions-than-answers-in-uk-brexit-offer-barnier-idUKKCN1J41RQ https://www.irishnews.com/news/brexit/2018/06/29/news/michel-barnier-warns-theresa-may-over-irish-brexit-issues-1369539/ But then again, maybe its a softening of stance, who knows? I always said the NI border would be the wheel they try to break us on, its a riddle with no answer. No one wants a hard border, but unless we split NI from the UK , we have to have a hard border, the EU says so, but its OUR fault for leaving, so whatever happens after that is down to us. Damned if we do, damned if we dont. As far as Barnier goes, his words mean absolutely nothing without action, and my opinion hasnt changed in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 9 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Doesnt sound like the words of Barnier. That's why it's always best to source the original to find out what's actually been said. The newspapers and other media sensationalize everything to get clicks and sales and will quite happily quote out of context to further their own ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, Retsdon said: That's why it's always best to source the original to find out what's actually been said. The newspapers and other media sensationalize everything to get clicks and sales and will quite happily quote out of context to further their own ends. Im sure they do quote out of context, but if its a quote ,they cant change that. Im curious , do you think Barnier has conducted a fair and balanced negotiation ? Also ,Ireland, do you not see how the EU made conundrum is going to make either capitulation on our part, or collapse of the talks inevitable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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