Tier 4

[Mice!]

12 minutes ago, oowee said:

It's too complicated! There are no rules

I'd say it's too complicated,  there are too many rules, with different rules being enforced depending on which way the wind blows.

That picture above of people shopping is ridiculous,  they probably did use public transport. 

Then there are the people ignoring all the rules. 

Nothing stopping people going from a tier3 to 2 for a meal, so what's going to stop those in 4  doing as they wish?

[Newbie to this]

4 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

open up the whole country and the devil take the hindmost.  Get businesses back to work and stop destroying the country.

^^^This

[oowee]

6 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Who do you suggest would make a better job of it then....and don't say that paper hat Starmer.   It realy is a poisoned chalice whatver he does. My view, open up the whole country and the devil take the hindmost.  Get businesses back to work and stop destroying the country.  All but a few snowflakes I speak to are in agreement.

Not sure why you think Starmer would be an option he is in opposition not the Govt!

Opening up the country is not an option. Many more would die and not of covid.

6 minutes ago, grrclark said:

 

Although I really don’t like him, someone like Ken Clarke would have done well in how he presented to the public, i don’t think he would have done any better in real terms, but I think his sober demeanour would have carried well.

For me it's as much about the approach as the the person in charge. Top down in England cannot work when you have devolved responsibility for parts of the UK with only the purse strings as an anchor.

[grrclark]

3 minutes ago, oowee said:

For me it's as much about the approach as the the person in charge. Top down in England cannot work when you have devolved responsibility for parts of the UK with only the purse strings as an anchor.

Agreed.  The devolved approach and one-upmanship involved on all sides has only added to the noise and lack of clarity. Even the noise by the likes of Burnham and Kahn contributes to that.  It’s not about who is wrong or right or colour of party rosette, it’s simply about cohesion and continuity of message an approach.

It is an abject failure of decisive leadership.

[impala59]

1 minute ago, grrclark said:

 

It is an abject failure of decisive leadership.

And also people not taking it seriously and not caring. As an example, I work in the transport industry and much has been made of 'extra cleaning' 'sanitising' etc. we are bombarded at work with posters, emails, statements, notices, declarations, policy, etc etc but this morning I had cause to wipe part of my (sealed and sanitised) cab with some tissue, it came away black with filth so obviously the contractors are doing their usual job of a cursory wipe with a grubby rag. I reported this to one of our supervisors who said it was nothing to do with him, found one of the contactors who shrugged his shoulders and walked away. I emailed 3 managers and have had no response 

"Carry on driver!"

[Cosmicblue]

There is much in the way of half-witted-pooh-for-brains garbage in this thread, let's try and get sensible.

1) Covid-19 is VERY dangerous, for some people its a few days of not feeling great and for others the virus attacks the body's vital organs and kills them in a few days.  Have to be put on a ventilator, put into a coma and you will almost certainly die. There are no proper drugs to treat the virus, the medical teams can only support the patients so their systems can produce anti-bodies to fight the the virus.   If you don't believe me - then find an NHS ITU nurse and ask.

2) The hospitals, across the country are at about 90% capacity - get ill with something other than Covid/need an emergency bed then you'll have to take your chances.  The 'release the restrictions idea is simply insane' - the NHS is at breaking point, the nurses and doctors are burnt out - they have seen 65,000+ people die in about 9 months, its not what they were trained for and even before the Covid-19 kicked off,  the NHS was short of 36,000 nurses - https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/workforce/english-nhs-still-short-of-more-than-36000-nurses-26-11-2020/   I know from NHS nurse friends that the stress is unbearable and some just can't face another shift and go sick - long term.

3) Perhaps a card system, like a donor-card "I don't support the Government's C-19 restrictions - if I get sick/have an accident then let me die, probably painfully".  Who in the non believer group is up for it??

4) Politicians - by nature they to be likeable and not dish out bad news because bad news doesn't get you re-elected even if you have done a good job.  I'm not a fan of Boris and his hopeless cronies however it is also the case that no government in modern times has had to contend with this kind of pandemic, yeah they are making it up as they go along and dithering in the process.    The unpalatable truth is probably that the best strategy would be to keep the nation in lockdown and massively ramp up the vaccination process - but as usual no-one wants to say it.  There will be more financial and commercial hardship with associated mental health issues for sure and yep the country is going to be paying this for decades into the future.

5) The scale of the vaccination challenge isn't talked about by the politicians either, I wonder why?  Unpalatable truth I suspect.   Roughly 60 million people in the UK, to keep it simple let's assume everybody is going to have the jabs.   Jab 100,000 people a day (which would be cracking along) it's going to take 600 days - two years give or take, and it's got to be done twice, 21 days apart - so needs to be 200,000 a day.   Boris was saying in his national address this evening that the vaccination will make things better by the spring...mmm must have missed something in the memo perhaps.

6) Just had a message from a nurse friend working an ITU night shift on her evening break - 'just finished preparing the body of another patient for transfer to the mortuary and who won't be going home to their family this Christmas'.

7) The bit that absolutely staggers me is that many people seem to see the restrictions as a curtailment of their individual civil liberties by the government and not something they have to take personal responsibility for - we all do, every single person in the UK has a part to play. 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by Cosmicblue

[Humblepie]

Good god, what a disgraceful situation. 
 

All for a virus that no longer exists and has been proven not to exist to the point where it is no longer harmful, or in fact ever was. Ferguson again shouting his mouth off about more deaths because of a mutation of Covid, at least 4,000 deaths a day and Boris listening to him. If this was Packham, you would be up in arms but for some reason you all think this is acceptable. Why?

Absolute rubbish yet again but the people of this country follow like sheep without any evidence. For gods sake wake up and do not comply unless you want masks, lockdowns, no travel, no access to your loved ones for the rest of your lives. This is happening.

Where on earth has the the British spirit gone. Stop accepting lies and fight back. It’s easy to do, just take your mask off and say no, I do not comply.

No doubt I will receive a load of abuse about this post but while you all follow orders, your freedom, what’s left of it, will be further eroded. 

Before anyone attacks this post for me being a conspiracy theorist or a left wing nut job (already been claimed on another post I submitted), I have been a Tory voter since the age of 18, I am now 58. I voted for Boris last time around and have always voted Tory.
 
They are lying to you

7 minutes ago, Cosmicblue said:

Perhaps a card system, like a donor-card "I don't support the Government's C-19 restrictions - if I get sick/have an accident then let me die, probably painfully".  Who in the non believer group is up for it??

I was about to submit my post and yours came in. So I will reply to it. I am defo up for it as long as the cause of sickness is definitely CV-19 or why not put a yellow star on those  that do not believe in the party line...

 

12 minutes ago, Cosmicblue said:

Just had a message from a nurse friend working an ITU night shift on her evening break - 'just finished preparing the body of another patient for transfer to the mortuary and who won't be going home to their family this Christmas'.

I am sorry to hear that but was it any different to last year or the year before or the year before that? People die, it’s horrible but it happens. Hospitals this years are no more overrun than than they normally are. If I am wrong please show me the stats to put me right

[Cosmicblue]

Card System - no, it doesn't work that way - you overwhelm the NHS then you'll die with the consequences Covid or otherwise.

Deaths - the death statistics now are are based on people who have tested positive to the virus in the last 28 days, so the 65,000 deaths are over and above the normal mortality rate.

The hospitals have had a tendency to be overrun as the winter months bite, into January and February, there isn't spare capacity.

I too have always voted Tory, but not the last time - I really didn't think Boris and team were up to the job and that would appear to be correct from other events that have transpired.

 

 

[Raja Clavata]

I still don’t know a single person in the UK who has died of COVID.

I do know three people who have taken their lives during this time, I suspect at least one of them died because of COVID.

I’m not a conspiracy theorist but for the life of me I can’t get my head around the approach ours and other governments are taking.

I’ve gone along with it all for now but I’m really not minded to do so any more. It’s rather academic though since just about everything is closed.

I really don’t know what the history books are going to make of this but I don’t believe they will show our current PM in a good light.

[enfieldspares]

9 hours ago, oowee said:

Other option? He needs to get a grip or move over and let someone else do the job. 

This. +1.

[WalkedUp]

I strongly dislike everything about Boris and do not believe he is the right man for the job. He is a pantomime figurehead. However, who else on the front bench is there? Are there any grown ups left in the room? The conservatives are short of any big beasts.

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, Boris and his team could have sorted this better right from the beginning of the pandemic, 1000s coming in from the EU and China should have self isolated or the latter stopped from coming,  and the masks fiasco, 🤔 

[Newbie to this]

Anything other than a full lockdown, no one in, no one out, essential goods only allowed through ports and a quarantine/cleansing system in place, is farcical to say the least.

Once rid of the virus, the no one in/out and goods quarantine/cleansing would have to remain until the rest of the World followed suit.

I know this isn't really plausible, so we should just get on with our lives, this virus and it's mutations are here to stay, we need to learn to live with it.

[oscarsdad]

9 hours ago, Humblepie said:

Good god, what a disgraceful situation. 
 

All for a virus that no longer exists and has been proven not to exist to the point where it is no longer harmful, or in fact ever was. Ferguson again shouting his mouth off about more deaths because of a mutation of Covid, at least 4,000 deaths a day and Boris listening to him. If this was Packham, you would be up in arms but for some reason you all think this is acceptable. Why?

Absolute rubbish yet again but the people of this country follow like sheep without any evidence. For gods sake wake up and do not comply unless you want masks, lockdowns, no travel, no access to your loved ones for the rest of your lives. This is happening.

Where on earth has the the British spirit gone. Stop accepting lies and fight back. It’s easy to do, just take your mask off and say no, I do not comply.

No doubt I will receive a load of abuse about this post but while you all follow orders, your freedom, what’s left of it, will be further eroded. 

Before anyone attacks this post for me being a conspiracy theorist or a left wing nut job (already been claimed on another post I submitted), I have been a Tory voter since the age of 18, I am now 58. I voted for Boris last time around and have always voted Tory.
 
They are lying to you

I was about to submit my post and yours came in. So I will reply to it. I am defo up for it as long as the cause of sickness is definitely CV-19 or why not put a yellow star on those  that do not believe in the party line...

 

I am sorry to hear that but was it any different to last year or the year before or the year before that? People die, it’s horrible but it happens. Hospitals this years are no more overrun than than they normally are. If I am wrong please show me the stats to put me right

I honestly hope that if you have SGC or worse FAC it finds its way to the FEO how stupid you actually are and if so stupid to claim Covid doesn’t exist, what other facts do you not believe in which mean you shouldn’t be allowed scissors or sharp things?

[oowee]

The PM of the UK cannot manage the powers and responsibilities of the devolved nations. There are, like it or not, four nations that need to be engaged underwritten by the UK cheque book.

Agree the ground rules form a steering group and back it with cash. 

Simple clear messages. 

Understandable trigger points for common tiers. 

Driven by the science moderated by reality owned by the people. 

All backed up by some visible enforcement.

 

[Mice!]

2 hours ago, WalkedUp said:

I strongly dislike everything about Boris and do not believe he is the right man for the job. He is a pantomime figurehead. However, who else on the front bench is there? Are there any grown ups left in the room? The conservatives are short of any big beasts.

Who in their right mind would want to step up and take over from Boris? He should have been running a government with a massive majority,  no real opposition party, it should have been one big party.

How different things are compared with 12 months ago. 

[Docleo]

10 hours ago, Cosmicblue said:

There is much in the way of half-witted-pooh-for-brains garbage in this thread, let's try and get sensible.

1) Covid-19 is VERY dangerous, for some people its a few days of not feeling great and for others the virus attacks the body's vital organs and kills them in a few days.  Have to be put on a ventilator, put into a coma and you will almost certainly die. There are no proper drugs to treat the virus, the medical teams can only support the patients so their systems can produce anti-bodies to fight the the virus.   If you don't believe me - then find an NHS ITU nurse and ask.

2) The hospitals, across the country are at about 90% capacity - get ill with something other than Covid/need an emergency bed then you'll have to take your chances.  The 'release the restrictions idea is simply insane' - the NHS is at breaking point, the nurses and doctors are burnt out - they have seen 65,000+ people die in about 9 months, its not what they were trained for and even before the Covid-19 kicked off,  the NHS was short of 36,000 nurses - https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/workforce/english-nhs-still-short-of-more-than-36000-nurses-26-11-2020/   I know from NHS nurse friends that the stress is unbearable and some just can't face another shift and go sick - long term.

3) Perhaps a card system, like a donor-card "I don't support the Government's C-19 restrictions - if I get sick/have an accident then let me die, probably painfully".  Who in the non believer group is up for it??

4) Politicians - by nature they to be likeable and not dish out bad news because bad news doesn't get you re-elected even if you have done a good job.  I'm not a fan of Boris and his hopeless cronies however it is also the case that no government in modern times has had to contend with this kind of pandemic, yeah they are making it up as they go along and dithering in the process.    The unpalatable truth is probably that the best strategy would be to keep the nation in lockdown and massively ramp up the vaccination process - but as usual no-one wants to say it.  There will be more financial and commercial hardship with associated mental health issues for sure and yep the country is going to be paying this for decades into the future.

5) The scale of the vaccination challenge isn't talked about by the politicians either, I wonder why?  Unpalatable truth I suspect.   Roughly 60 million people in the UK, to keep it simple let's assume everybody is going to have the jabs.   Jab 100,000 people a day (which would be cracking along) it's going to take 600 days - two years give or take, and it's got to be done twice, 21 days apart - so needs to be 200,000 a day.   Boris was saying in his national address this evening that the vaccination will make things better by the spring...mmm must have missed something in the memo perhaps.

6) Just had a message from a nurse friend working an ITU night shift on her evening break - 'just finished preparing the body of another patient for transfer to the mortuary and who won't be going home to their family this Christmas'.

7) The bit that absolutely staggers me is that many people seem to see the restrictions as a curtailment of their individual civil liberties by the government and not something they have to take personal responsibility for - we all do, every single person in the UK has a part to play. 

 

 

Thanks for the good post. 

Unfortunately out there there're a too many Humblepie.... what a disgrace for us all.

[Vince Green]

13 hours ago, Jega said:

What did you expect , Regent Street two weeks ago 5/12/20 ,complete with crowd marshall chap in hi-viz yellow tabard and no mask .

 

THIS ^^^^^

and practically every one of them would have had to get there by underground or bus

[WalkedUp]

1 hour ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, Boris and his team could have sorted this better right from the beginning of the pandemic, 1000s coming in from the EU and China should have self isolated or the latter stopped from coming,  and the masks fiasco, 🤔 

Agree, it’s been a complete mess but we get what we deserve for electing a generation of television personalities rather than leaders. 

[bavarianbrit]

I do not agree with the deniers but will support their right to do everything possible to catch this non existent virus, Darwinism at its most simple at work.

[oldypigeonpopper]

19 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

Agree, it’s been a complete mess but we get what we deserve for electing a generation of television personalities rather than leaders. 

Good post 👍 I wonder what Winston C would of done? 

Edited December 20, 2020 by oldypigeonpopper

[Morkin]

11 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

Agree, it’s been a complete mess but we get what we deserve for electing a generation of television personalities rather than leaders. 

Cannot agree more mate + all those people shopping and the plastic presents what will end up in land fill where all made in ? You have got it China ,are we really that baty

[blackbird]

27 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

Agree, it’s been a complete mess but we get what we deserve for electing a generation of television personalities rather than leaders. 

+1 I haven’t voted in the past 2 elections & will never waste my time voting again.

[treetree]

1 hour ago, oscarsdad said:

I honestly hope that if you have SGC or worse FAC it finds its way to the FEO how stupid you actually are and if so stupid to claim Covid doesn’t exist, what other facts do you not believe in which mean you shouldn’t be allowed scissors or sharp things?

You should have the decency to withdraw this comment. Absolute disgrace.

[oscarsdad]

5 minutes ago, treetree said:

You should have the decency to withdraw this comment. Absolute disgrace.

No it isn’t, when people insist on spreading lies and disinformation which could ultimately lead to deaths if people continue to believe such nonsense then it should be called out. 
 

Anyone who believes Covid doesn’t exist is stupid.