Shocking, young, fit and healthy people don't want Covid jab.

[RockySpears]

Let's not forget "Very rich" too.

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/only-seven-premier-league-clubs-have-more-50-vaccinated-players

 

RS

[Gordon R]

Gareth Southgate should insist that anyone playing for England has the vaccine and will not pick anyone from a club who don't have 100%.

[DUNKS]

We have a daughter in Canada and these are the ones getting seriously ill  over there.

 

[39TDS]

Why should relatively young fit people have the jab?

They are at no great risk if they catch covid, the jab may reduce risk of getting seriously ill but it isn’t likely that they will anyway. It doesn’t stop them catching it or spreading it, nobody stands to gain anything from it as far as I can see.

I am not against the jab and think we have done a good job so far but now it’s time to stop. Forcing kids to have it is just wrong with no benefit, it has become a power trip rather than a health issue.

Australia have taken it even further, Victoria state has introduced a no jab no job policy as of 15th October. That is all workers and they are way behind with their vaccine rollout, so loads of necessary workers are going to get sent home just when most needed.

How long until we make it compulsory for all?

[Scully]

I totally agree it should be down to the individual, and my daughter says the only reason she had it ( double jabbed at 24 ) is because without it, she won’t get access to a lot of the gigs and venues she wants to go to. It’s not always the government who is insistent.
A shop in my local town has a sign outside stating ‘no mask no entry’. 🤷‍♂️

[JohnfromUK]

12 hours ago, 39TDS said:

They are at no great risk if they catch covid, the jab may reduce risk of getting seriously ill but it isn’t likely that they will anyway. It doesn’t stop them catching it or spreading it,

This is not the whole story;

"They are at no great risk if they catch covid" - The risk of catching it is much the same as any other group - that is to say you are much less likely to catch it if vaccinated.

"the jab may reduce risk of getting seriously ill but it isn’t likely that they will anyway." - The jab DOES reduce the risk of getting seriously ill - no 'may' about it.  It is true the young are unlikely to get seriously ill, but it can and does happen.

"It doesn’t stop them catching it or spreading it" - True, but it they are vaccinated, they are MUCH less likely to catch it - and if they do catch it, they are probably less likely to spread it - because vaccines reduce viral load.

12 hours ago, 39TDS said:

Forcing kids to have it is just wrong with no benefit

Forcing kids to have it is wrong but the idea there is no benefit is simply wrong:  There is a benefit, both to them - and to society as a whole - and they should be strongly encouraged to have it.

[243deer]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

A shop in my local town has a sign outside stating ‘no mask no entry’. 🤷‍♂️

Try that in Swaffham, where I hardly saw a mask this morning at the market, and they would shortly have to put up another sign saying 'closed'

I very strongly believe that no-one should have to undergo a medical treatment they do not want to. Not forcing folk to do things they do not want to is a fundamental building block of our modern civilised society. I am frankly disgusted at the folk who would force folk to be vaccinated by whatever means including non-direct ones. 

If we are going to force folk to be vaccinated then we effectively become a totalitarian state.

[henry d]

8 hours ago, 243deer said:

If we are going to force folk to be vaccinated then we effectively become a totalitarian state.

If we force people to stay at home do we become a totalitarian state?

If not what is the difference?

[Vince Green]

Its stupid to say that just because an individual has less risk of death (by virtue of age) they don't need to be vaccinated

They carry exactly the same risk as anybody else of transmission to others.

Also younger people in general, school kids and sportsmen are high churn (churn is the number other people you come into contact with in the course of an average day) and so have the highest number of potential chance of giving or receiving the virus

They may not die but if they are vaccinated the chances of them passing it to others is reduced by 90%. Also if their peer group is all vaccinated the chances of them getting it in the first place is reduced by 90%

Vaccination is nothing much to do with preventing death on a global scale, its all about preventing transmission. Thats the only way we can strangle the virus, and its the high churn individuals that are spreading it the most . 

Edited October 2, 2021 by Vince Green

[enfieldspares]

22 hours ago, 39TDS said:

Why should relatively young fit people have the jab?

They are at no great risk if they catch covid, the jab may reduce risk of getting seriously ill but it isn’t likely that they will anyway. It doesn’t stop them catching it or spreading it, nobody stands to gain anything from it as far as I can see.

I am not against the jab and think we have done a good job so far but now it’s time to stop. Forcing kids to have it is just wrong with no benefit, it has become a power trip rather than a health issue.

Australia have taken it even further, Victoria state has introduced a no jab no job policy as of 15th October. That is all workers and they are way behind with their vaccine rollout, so loads of necessary workers are going to get sent home just when most needed.

How long until we make it compulsory for all?

This. +1.

Edited October 2, 2021 by enfieldspares

[Yellow Bear]

10 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Its stupid to say that just because an individual has less risk of death (by virtue of age) they don't need to be vaccinated

They carry exactly the same risk as anybody else of transmission to others.

Also younger people in general, school kids and sportsmen are high churn (churn is the number other people you come into contact with in the course of an average day) and so have the highest number of potential chance of giving or receiving the virus

They may not die but if they are vaccinated the chances of them passing it to others is reduced by 90%. Also if their peer group is all vaccinated the chances of them getting it in the first place is reduced by 90%

Vaccination is nothing much to do with preventing death on a global scale, its all about preventing transmission. Thats the only way we can strangle the virus, and its the high churn individuals that are spreading it the most . 

Ah yes but, as they say it is within their rights not to.  Sadly the younger generations have decided that the rights no longer come with responsibilities.  In this case to limit onward transmission.

[39TDS]

17 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

They may not die but if they are vaccinated the chances of them passing it to others is reduced by 90%. Also if their peer group is all vaccinated the chances of them getting it in the first place is reduced by 90%

Reduced to 90% chance of infection/infecting I might believe but I don’t think there’s much truth in what you put.

[Stonepark]

12 hours ago, Vince Green said:

Its stupid to say that just because an individual has less risk of death (by virtue of age) they don't need to be vaccinated

They carry exactly the same risk as anybody else of transmission to others.

Also younger people in general, school kids and sportsmen are high churn (churn is the number other people you come into contact with in the course of an average day) and so have the highest number of potential chance of giving or receiving the virus

They may not die but if they are vaccinated the chances of them passing it to others is reduced by 90%. Also if their peer group is all vaccinated the chances of them getting it in the first place is reduced by 90%.

Unfortunately not according to the latest medical studies which demonstrate viral load and therefore transmission is not significantly different between vaccinated and non vaccinated individuals.

 

The studies do however show that you are up to 27 times less likely to be re-infected by the virus if you acquire natural immunity rather than the 'jab' which is not a vaccine (hint vaccines prevent you from acquiring the disease or transmitting it).

 

All those rejecting the jabs and kids and who are aquiring natural immunity are going to be the best protected through natural immunisation.

As a risk, Covid19 to healthy under 15 year olds represents a risk of death of less than 1 in a million

The 'jabs' have a risk of 6-10 deaths per million at that age (and increases with age) why would you put kids at risk like that...?

[WalkedUp]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-jurgen-klopp-says-refusing-vaccine-is-like-drink-driving-as-it-endangers-others-12424716

Liverpool FC have a 99% vaccination rate despite it not being mandatory. I do believe Jurgen Klopp would be a better PM than any of our meagre crop of politicians. 

[WalkedUp]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2021/oct/02/liverpool-jurgen-klopp-says-anti-vaxxers-endanger-others

[timps]

31 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

Unfortunately not according to the latest medical studies which demonstrate viral load and therefore transmission is not significantly different between vaccinated and non vaccinated individuals.

Depends which study you look at. A University of Oxford  one realised on Thursday  disagrees.

 

“People who are vaccinated against Covid-19 are less likely to spread the virus even if they become infected, a new study finds, adding to a growing body of evidence that vaccines can reduce transmission of the delta variant.

British scientists at the University of Oxford examined national records of nearly 150,000 contacts that were traced from roughly 100,000 initial cases. The samples included people who were fully or partially vaccinated with either the Pfizer-BioNTech or the AstraZeneca vaccines, as well as people who were unvaccinated.” …

 

“It’s the highest quality study we have so far on the question of infectiousness of vaccinated people infected with delta,” said Dr. Aaron Richterman, an infectious disease physician at the University of Pennsylvania, who was not involved in the research.”

Edited October 3, 2021 by timps

[Scully]

I think outside influences may eventually dictate whether an individual has the jab or not. 
I think foreign governments will possibly play a role in a deciding factor on who gets into their country, just as they do now for people who want to travel to some of the more exotic destinations. 
No one seems to mind having jabs to enable them to travel to places like Goa or wherever, and I think the Covid jab will eventually be a prerequisite just as others are now. 
As my daughter says, it’s your choice, but if you want to go clubbing you currently need the jab. 

[12gauge82]

On 02/10/2021 at 11:43, 243deer said:

 

I very strongly believe that no-one should have to undergo a medical treatment they do not want to. Not forcing folk to do things they do not want to is a fundamental building block of our modern civilised society. I am frankly disgusted at the folk who would force folk to be vaccinated by whatever means including non-direct ones. 

If we are going to force folk to be vaccinated then we effectively become a totalitarian state.

Absolutely spot on, very well said

19 hours ago, henry d said:

If we force people to stay at home do we become a totalitarian state?

If not what is the difference?

Who's forcing anyone to stay at home? I disagreed with an enforced lockdown to. People should have been allowed to use common sense. 

[clangerman]

5 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Absolutely spot on, very well said

Who's forcing anyone to stay at home? I disagreed with an enforced lockdown to. People should have been allowed to use common sense. 

what common sense the clowns just emptied every garage in the country on nothing more than a rumour 

[captainhastings]

Yea there is no common sense a large portion of people would put getting a few beers down in the local way before any concerns of a virus 

[Raja Clavata]

We are a fully vaccinated household with two young adults (20 & 18) but I fully respect anybody who has decided not to take the vaccine, particularly those who have not yet had children and plan to do so. I'm not saying it's sound but I respect and would argue for the freedom of choice.

[JohnfromUK]

9 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

particularly those who have not yet had children and plan to do so.

Why?  There is NO evidence that any of the Covid vaccines cause infertility.  There is a widespread (false) rumour spread by malicious antivaxxers, but no truth in it apparently according to multiple 'serious' sources.  Eg;

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210112/why-covid-vaccines-are-falsely-linked-to-infertility

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57552527

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n509

[Raja Clavata]

4 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Why?  There is NO evidence that any of the Covid vaccines cause infertility.  There is a widespread (false) rumour spread by malicious antivaxxers, but no truth in it apparently according to multiple 'serious' sources.  Eg;

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210112/why-covid-vaccines-are-falsely-linked-to-infertility

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57552527

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n509

Because there is no way a full study on reproductive health and potential birth defects due to the vaccines could have taken place in time.

I've no interest in what anti-vaxxers say but there is a logic to being wary of the vaccine for people who have yet to produce off-spring. Nothing to do with conspiracy theories just caution and an empathy for people that have a different take on what normal looks like moving forward other than the normalised view of over 50's (like myself).

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said:

Because there is no way a full study on reproductive health and potential birth defects due to the vaccines could have taken place in time.

I've no interest in what anti-vaxxers say but there is a logic to being wary of the vaccine for people who have yet to produce off-spring. Nothing to do with conspiracy theories just caution and an empathy for people that have a different take on what normal looks like moving forward other than the normalised view of over 50's (like myself).

OK.  My concern is that there seems to be a major rumour that the Covid vaccines cause infertility - which is causing many to avoid it for that reason.  As far as I can see - it is completely false and it is just another 'anti-vaxxer' falsehood along with the 5G and "Bill Gates microchip' theories!  Sadly (and to me somewhat incredibly) - people do believe such things.

I am all for people making up their own minds, but NOT if it is based on falsified evidence.

[Gordon R]

Whilst I have had the vaccine and so have my family, I am intrigued by some who advocate freedom of choice. The same freedom of choice doesn't seem to apply to night club owners who demand vaccination proof before admission. 

Have the vaccine or don't but live with the consequences of your decision and don't cry foul when others exercise their rights.