Longthorne Guns - Faults and Terrible Customer Service

[theshootist]

Oh dear. You bought a pair if guns and the triggers have different mechanisms? This does seem extraordinary. 

[hod]

I would find this whole thread surprising if you’d spent just a tenth of what you had. The additional issues identified are crazy. Full credit to you for giving them an extra opportunity to address the issue prior to you even doing any filming. 

[Duffryn]

Some images of the build quality on one of my Longthorne's. Fore end gap appeared after a year and the fore end rattled on shooting ever since, the hairline crack around the  pistol grip some time in the guns 4th season. Not what you would expect on a gun costing £2.5K let alone £25K. None of these are covered under Longthorne's warranty, in fact not much is, because there is never a fault in their opinion just an adjustment with return to base at your cost.  Longthorne don't seem very keen to promote the fact that there is no warranty at all on their wood. My question on one of their facebook posts showing their beautiful wood was quickly deleted. Give it a go for yourself....   

Edited February 5, 2022 by Duffryn

[TK421]

Not that beretta (GMK) are renowned for there proactiveness but chatting with a chap today who has a DT11 Black edition which has lost its finish on the barrels but more so on the action, black finish has warn off and showing through the silver underneath, looks a bit of a mess. GMK said, as it’s a few years old, we will refinish the action and barrels at no cost, but only do this once. Which I think is actually fair enough. Chaps going to leave it until it gets worse then get it done by GMK out of season for free. I know it’s not a wood issue, but still proactive in supporting the customer. Longthorne should be bending over backwards to sort this out, no excuses whatsoever. Discraceful, really is bad form. And to think I was going to throw money down on one as well. 

[CharlesP]

I'm following this thread with great interest and, indeed, disappointment.

If you bought these guns as a pair it is (as the shootist has said above) astonishing that different trigger mechanisms are fitted. If a different one was fitted at a later date to cure, say, a failure to fire the second barrel that's just as appalling unless it was done after comprehensive consultation, and even then I would expect both guns to be similarly modified as there's an implication that the original mechanism wasn't fit for purpose. If you didn't know about this difference it would be unreasonable for Longthorne's to claim that you're out of time on any warranty claim as the internal parts of the gun are not visible to the user.

That "hairline crack" doesn't look like what I would call a hairline crack it looks like a plain old broken stock, and shouldn't have happened, assuming you haven't been using the gun as a club. The grain there looks a bit contrary! 

The fore end wood shouldn't have opened up like that. It shouldn't rattle. Is the inner surface untreated? That could perhaps explain a differential expansion as moisture in the air is taken up by the inner surface but not by the finished outer. I have a problem with a front door caused by such a phenomenon.

I look forward to the video, and I sincerely hope that Messrs Longthorne do the right thing by you.

I can't afford a Longthorne gun, I haven't been attracted to them anyway, but this thread together with other comments would kill any desire to do so.

 

 

 

[strimmer_13]

If i was longthorne, id be wanting those guns back in sharpish. If the owner can afford such a pair, he at a guess wont be on the average farmers shoot, but will be mixing with potential clientèle who would be interested in such a range. 

Say whilst having a break, and people chatting, such a gun will have caught most guns eye, the first thing they would notice is the poor wood fit and then one question would lead to another and if this thread is true (which i have no doubt to believe), potential sales and a bad reputation will follow. Word of mouth on a exquisite piece of work, can tarnish a small limited production company. 

Not being rude, and you dont have to answer duffryn, have you been on/part of many syndicates, and had many guns come and ask about said shotgun with the defects? Have they been put of by it and the customer service you have received? 

[Duffryn]

My email

" I have now had the guns inspected by a independent gunsmith. He noted that the pair of guns are not identical in that number 1 gun has an inertia trigger, number 2 gun has a mechanical trigger, one has 12 marked on the injectors the other doesn’t and also pointed out a significant hairline crack on the pistol grip of gun number 1, starting at a knot in the wood. Please find attached a revised script that encompasses these points. I await your comments as to any factual inaccuracy no later than Friday 11^th 5pm, the video will be live within a week of that date"

Their response "

Your ‘independent Gunsmith’ is incorrect, both triggers are ‘inertia’, the reason one is different is because we changed it for you, remember? ......

We do have different ejectors in stock  they don’t all have the gauge on, if we have done work on one gun without the other it is possible that ejector has been changed at the time of doing the trigger as a matter of course but as we didn’t do the other one at the same time  this is slightly different.

Sorry, can’t comment on the wood".

My response

"Gun number 1 has an inertia trigger, a shot is required to fire the second shot, this is the gun you modified the seer on for £80. Gun number 2 ( no modification to seer) has a mechanical trigger where recoil is not required to for the second barrel to fire thus I was advised this is not an inertia trigger by the gunsmith. If this is incorrect please explain why on the script comments so that the video is factually correct.

Ejectors knowing that you have two different types of ejector and that my guns are a pair then common sense would be to check with me before fitting them".

Note there was no admittance of fault or offer to refit the ejectors from Longthorne. Adjusting the trigger so that it fires the second barrel consistently should not result in them changing the mechanism without telling me on a £50K pair of guns

  

[Diver One]

56 minutes ago, TK421 said:

GMK said, as it’s a few years old, we will refinish the action and barrels at no cost, but only do this once. Which I think is actually fair enough.

And the result of this will be "that's good service for a gun that is out of warranty. I may consider one of their guns next time if this is their level of service"... so a good bit of aftersales service will doubtless result in more sales at not a lot of cost, and you can't beat 'word of mouth' recommends. Whereas as Longthorne seem to be doing the opposite

[Duffryn]

11 minutes ago, strimmer_13 said:

If i was longthorne, id be wanting those guns back in sharpish. If the owner can afford such a pair, he at a guess wont be on the average farmers shoot, but will be mixing with potential clientèle who would be interested in such a range. 

Say whilst having a break, and people chatting, such a gun will have caught most guns eye, the first thing they would notice is the poor wood fit and then one question would lead to another and if this thread is true (which i have no doubt to believe), potential sales and a bad reputation will follow. Word of mouth on a exquisite piece of work, can tarnish a small limited production company. 

Not being rude, and you dont have to answer duffryn, have you been on/part of many syndicates, and had many guns come and ask about said shotgun with the defects? Have they been put of by it and the customer service you have received? 

I parked the issue with Longhthorne after the first year, I've picked it up again three years later, the delay is entirely my fault but in my defence their position was made very clear in the first year. I have tried to resolve the situation with Longthorne in a pragmatic and reasonable way but to no avail. I have always stayed away from giving negative views ion the shooting field, hoping that a fair solution could be reached .   This will of course now change.         

[ditchman]

I am appalled at this story.........

I dont think you are going to get anything out of Longthorne now............they know there is going to be a video...and they have done nothing to appease you......if they were going to do anything they would have done it by now...knowing that this story would be spread across the shooting world........

i think the only decent outcome will be a result of you taking them to court......

i do hope you get satisfaction.....no company should get away with this level of service

[holloway]

I have just had a look at there website ,they only launched there first model 12 years ago !,! ,that doesn’t fill me with any confidence at all .Some might say it shouldn’t matter .

I would really like to hear the opinion of someone who has spent there life working in the gun trade on these overnight gun making experts.

[Duffryn]

3 minutes ago, ditchman said:

I am appalled at this story.........

I dont think you are going to get anything out of Longthorne now............they know there is going to be a video...and they have done nothing to appease you......if they were going to do anything they would have done it by now...knowing that this story would be spread across the shooting world........

i think the only decent outcome will be a result of you taking them to court......

i do hope you get satisfaction.....no company should get away with this level of service

Thanks I agree, I'll almost certainly end up getting the guns fixed elsewhere and at my cost. My primary objective now is to warn others considering buying a Longthorne of my experience so that they enter the process with eyes wide open and to try and shame Longthorne into improving their after sales support and service. Very short sighted indeed of them, its a small market, they make extensive use of online and social media and don't seem to understand that this can work both ways for them.      

[matone]

4 hours ago, Duffryn said:

As an update I've just got back from an independent gunsmith  who inspected both guns. He pointed out that they are not an identical pair in that one has an inertia trigger, the other a mechanical one, the ejectors on one gun have a 12 on them the other doesn't and also pointed out a significant hairline crack on the pistol grip of number 1 gun, that appears to have started from a knot in the wood, suggesting perhaps poor wood selection at Longthorne. He didn't know anyone with Longthornes that had not had issues with them. I will keep you posted 

Tbh,every one that I`ve seen has poorly selected wood where it matters !!! There is more to best guns than fancy figure and engraving...a point that is often forgotten nowadays.

[bruno22rf]

They can put whatever they like in their warranty terms but it does not over rule the Consumer Law, even if you signed agreeing to the terms you still have your Rights and any attempt to deny you of them is an offence. The gun is not fit for purpose and has not lasted a reasonable amount of time, your argument with them is simple, who would spend that amount of money on any item that became faulty in a year? Take them to court.

[JDog]

10 minutes ago, Duffryn said:

Thanks I agree, I'll almost certainly end up getting the guns fixed elsewhere and at my cost. My primary objective now is to warn others considering buying a Longthorne of my experience so that they enter the process with eyes wide open and to try and shame Longthorne into improving their after sales support and service. Very short sighted indeed of them, its a small market, they make extensive use of online and social media and don't seem to understand that this can work both ways for them.      

You should delete this post. You have resolved to take a clear course of action before the deadline which in my view is a mistake.

[JohnfromUK]

Slightly 'off topic', but a nice, true (and short) story.  In 1978 (or thereabouts) I bought a 100+ year old hammer gun from it's original makers.  It was quite expensive for the time, but in lovely condition and fully usable.  In using it, it immediately became apparent that there was a problem, in that the strikers penetrated the primers frequently on some makes of cartridge.

I took it back, and the makers had a look - and asked me to leave it with them for an hour or so.  When I went back, they had 'stoned' the end of the firing pins to round them off slightly - apparently early primers were quite 'hard'.

I asked if I owed anything suspecting that there might be a modest charge, but the maker said with a chuckle 'covered under original warranty'.  I still have the gun and it functions faultlessly.

[Stuarta]

14 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Slightly 'off topic', but a nice, true (and short) story.  In 1978 (or thereabouts) I bought a 100+ year old hammer gun from it's original makers.  It was quite expensive for the time, but in lovely condition and fully usable.  In using it, it immediately became apparent that there was a problem, in that the strikers penetrated the primers frequently on some makes of cartridge.

I took it back, and the makers had a look - and asked me to leave it with them for an hour or so.  When I went back, they had 'stoned' the end of the firing pins to round them off slightly - apparently early primers were quite 'hard'.

I asked if I owed anything suspecting that there might be a modest charge, but the maker said with a chuckle 'covered under original warranty'.  I still have the gun and it functions faultlessly.

That is a lovely story John and I’m sure makes the gun even more valued by yourself. The opposite to how I would feel about the Longthorne pair of guns

[BinaryB]

5 hours ago, Duffryn said:

As an update I've just got back from an independent gunsmith  who inspected both guns. He pointed out that they are not an identical pair in that one has an inertia trigger, the other a mechanical one, the ejectors on one gun have a 12 on them the other doesn't and also pointed out a significant hairline crack on the pistol grip of number 1 gun, that appears to have started from a knot in the wood, suggesting perhaps poor wood selection at Longthorne. He didn't know anyone with Longthornes that had not had issues with them. I will keep you posted 

Wow! They won’t be in business in the short to medium term is my prediction. The sort of customer service you are experiencing is normally due to pressure in one form or another. Normally highlighting financial pressure but I wager they won’t be in business for much longer. I’d get what you can from them as soon as you can if I were you before they go out of business.  Absolutely disgraceful customer service. 

[Duffryn]

31 minutes ago, JDog said:

You should delete this post. You have resolved to take a clear course of action before the deadline which in my view is a mistake.

Thanks but the deadline is not for resolution that has already passed. It's for them to quote any factual inaccuracy of the video script I sent them. Most people wouldn't give them the courtesy of extending that offer. But I want to make sure that despite their actions my video is honest, true and fair.   

[JohnfromUK]

12 minutes ago, Stuarta said:

That is a lovely story John

It's a nice story, and in fact I'm sure had the gun been a used Spanish boxlock - as a used gun they had sold - they would in fact have done just the same.  The firm concerned were William Powell and Son when they were in Birmingham (35, Carrs Lane) and run by the Powell family.

[JDog]

8 minutes ago, Duffryn said:

Thanks but the deadline is not for resolution that has already passed. It's for them to quote any factual inaccuracy of the video script I sent them. Most people wouldn't give them the courtesy of extending that offer. But I want to make sure that despite their actions my video is honest, true and fair.   

Fair enough.

Your revelations will cause untold damage to Longthorne's sales and reputation. It doesn't seem as though they are bothered about that.

[ditchman]

the really sad thing is........it could have been so different.........Longthorne could have been appalled at what was let out of the factory and rectified everything with a profound apology ...and you would have been happy as a sandboy and making a video to attest to their outstanding service.........which would have given everybody that good feeling about spending their hard earned cash with them.........resulting in increased buisness

 

shame .............i hate with a passion bad service

[Walker570]

23 hours ago, Duffryn said:

The gun has always been kept in gun safe in the house at around 18 degrees.  It's identical pair has no issues neither do the other 8 guns in the cabinet. 

I quote an email from Longthorne - "I have attached a copy of your warranty document, with wood being a natural product it is excluded from the warranty". To be fair it does state this in their warranty document but you would have thought after spending £50K with them on a pair of guns that they would correct the issue when the fault was just over a year after purchase. My other issues ( cartridges not ejecting, cartridges not firing, second barrel not firing were not faults but "adjustments" so their return to base warranty did not apply !!!   Copy of their warranty attached showing that the wood is not covered. Buyer beware !! 

Should have bought a Yildiz £600. Had one for the last three seasons and just had it serviced £90 included a set of new springs. Amazingly things keep falling out of the sky.

Saw a Roller being winched up on a recovery wagon last week down the M42..................  nuff said.

Edited February 5, 2022 by Walker570

[figgy]

The gap in your forend happened to me on a new beretta after shooting it in the rain. It was teeming down and I then shot a flush getting the barrels scorching hot. The wood then moved and stayed that way. Very annoying but wood never stopped me using it. I did try the dampen the wood and bind it with elastic bands for a few weeks which did make the gap smaller. 
 

Such a shame as what Longthorne are doing with barrels as a one peice unit is much stronger. About time we were getting advancements in shotguns. But not the kind where customer is told to jog on after spending 50k on a now unmatched pair. 

4 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Should have bought a Yildiz £600. Had one for the last three seasons and just had it serviced £90 included a set of new springs. Amazingly things keep falling out of the sky.

Saw a Roller being winched up on a recovery wagon last week down the M42..................  nuff said.

Walker as many have said shotguns have not really changed in a hundred years. If it fits and is balanced costing many times more can’t make it hit more. 

[Duffryn]

12 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Should have bought a Yildiz £600. Had one for the last three seasons and just had it serviced £90 included a set of new springs. Amazingly things keep falling out of the sky.

Saw a Roller being winched up on a recovery wagon last week down the M42..................  nuff said.

My Silver Pidgeon 686 is the same - bomb proof and I shoot well with it . The purchase decision on the Longthorne was based on the noticeable reduction in recoil ( it does this but well) , pride of ownership and something to hand down to my two sons