Wild Justice

[Scully]

3 minutes ago, captainhastings said:

Can't be leave any one actually cares which way up a bird is being carried on a cartridge box in case it offends any one. Also don't see why we should kowtow to the people against our various sports for fear of offending or upsetting them. There minds are made up. I used be able to walk through the village with a few rabbits on my shoulder. I tried it a few years back with a shovel ferret and lurcher and got stopped by the police with in twenty minutes as some one reported me. Police lady was good as gold and said you know what some people are like. Wife had the car at the time so shanks pony it was that day. Sad sad times for the country sports. My grandson was born this week bless him and do hope I get to show him the country sports like longnetting and ferreting plus all the joys of shooting before it all goes out the window. Oh and fishing the list is endless

👍

[B725]

The one thing that hasn't been mentioned if the pheasant is head shot and may be bleeding or covered in blood why carry by the neck and get blood all over your hand and then onto your gun, I've carried many a bird by the feet simply because of it. 

[islandgun]

The wj thing for me isn't only an attack on personal liberty or choice, it represents the thin end of a large wedge. We are in a situation where minorities can get funding to pressure governments to change laws,  Field sports may be the first things to go [this includes angling] Our diet is next on the list, [veganuary ] the vehicle we drive [or not], the way we insulate/heat our house, trees before food, comedians jokes, freedom of speech !... The ramblings of an old man perhaps, better put the kettle on..🤐 

[ilovemyheckler]

Someone needs to advise WJ that according to the Mammal Society, cats kill up to

55 million wild birds a year. Probably roughly same as the number of game birds are shot each year

[ShootingEgg]

As said it is just my opinion and on the shoot I run I'd rather the birds be seen to be being respected, that also comes to people taking low birds and mincing them in the air. Maybe it's just how I have been shown when I grew up, nothing bad About respecting our quarry. And to me holing it by one leg, the other and both wings bouncing round as you walk to the game cart just doesn't look good. As said this is merely my opinion and we all know opinion's aren't always right 🙂

[Gas seal]

The definition of wild birds  changed in 2004 , all birds are protected by law. There is no such thing in law as a pest species.. Wild mallard eggs can be taken by authorised persons but can’t be sold.  Anyone can can take game birds for breeding. Game birds have their own law, from the 1800s l think. Anyone can shoot them nowadays , no license required.  Authorised persons can kill birds to protect wild birds. The question to DEFRA would be are pheasants and red leg partridge wild birds or non native birds released into the wild. Non native birds are on the general licence.The game shoots are been noticed with the killing of birds of prey, the sale of game, numbers of birds released and the numbers lost. The numbers can be found on the government website, It’s interesting reading. The kill game license stopped in 2007 . Fox hunting stopped in 2004 . Hare coursing in 2005. Fox hunting and the Warterloo cup where traditional country sports followed by a lot people over  many years. Fox hunting scenes were on Christmas cards. If DEFRA can’t sort it out it’s down to lawyers again. I don’t think tradition, the way people dress or carry dead birds will make a difference with the lawyers. It’s a new way of life to get used to. 

 

 

[WalkedUp]

5 hours ago, ShootingEgg said:

As said it is just my opinion and on the shoot I run I'd rather the birds be seen to be being respected, that also comes to people taking low birds and mincing them in the air. Maybe it's just how I have been shown when I grew up, nothing bad About respecting our quarry. And to me holing it by one leg, the other and both wings bouncing round as you walk to the game cart just doesn't look good. As said this is merely my opinion and we all know opinion's aren't always right 🙂

👍

[JohnfromUK]

There is now an enquiry into deaths of Sea (White Tailed) Eagles 'linked' to game shooting estates.  As usual Packham and Tingay names involved.  No evidence is reported despite the enquiry (on one) having been running for some 4 months plus.  The other was found in January.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10499347/Police-probe-two-young-sea-eagles-dead-game-shooting-estates-Dorset-Sussex.html

[mel b3]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

There is now an enquiry into deaths of Sea (White Tailed) Eagles 'linked' to game shooting estates.  As usual Packham and Tingay names involved.  No evidence is reported despite the enquiry (on one) having been running for some 4 months plus.  The other was found in January.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10499347/Police-probe-two-young-sea-eagles-dead-game-shooting-estates-Dorset-Sussex.html

We can only hope that any enquiry isn't as shockingly biased at that article.  Despite no apparent evidence,  they appear to know exactly whodunit. 

[JohnfromUK]

2 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

We can only hope that any enquiry isn't as shockingly biased at that article.  Despite no apparent evidence,  they appear to know exactly whodunit. 

Which nicely sums up the real problem - a large, vociferous, well funded 'anti' brigade with ready access to the media where they have several high profile supporters (Packham, Monblot, Brian May, also (though slightly less well known) Avery and Tingay.

[ShootingEgg]

1 hour ago, mel b3 said:

We can only hope that any enquiry isn't as shockingly biased at that article.  Despite no apparent evidence,  they appear to know exactly whodunit. 

Well only thing it says is they were found on the shooting estates, so right now there is no evidence to suggest they were illegally killed, they were found dead. That's not evidence that's just dead bird. But if they were killed illegally then the person(s) responsible for this will need to be prosecuted. That does not mean that all shooters are illegally killing, bit anti media hype will spin it that way.

[PeterHenry]

4 hours ago, ShootingEgg said:

Well only thing it says is they were found on the shooting estates, so right now there is no evidence to suggest they were illegally killed, they were found dead. That's not evidence that's just dead bird. But if they were killed illegally then the person(s) responsible for this will need to be prosecuted. That does not mean that all shooters are illegally killing, bit anti media hype will spin it that way.

Another thing to point out - my experiance is that newspapers play very fast and loose with the term 'estate'. I've seen 60 acres being called an 'estate' before - and less.... Ok, back in the day 60 acres was (and in some cases still is) a small farm. I think the rule of thumb was that 300 acres was (once upon a time) an estate - although obviously there is a diffrence in how a farm or an estate is run on a practical level, and has been recently some bluring of the edges as well. To mix things up more, we all know that legally it means land owned by someone, although the term itself has a emotive / evocative / Downton Abbey side to it as well.

The bird(s) could well have died on an estate that had a shoot, or could have died on a farm that made up part of a syndicate. Or - as we all know - some form of shooting takes place over the vast majority of privately owned land in the UK..... and frankly, it sounds far less suspicious if its phrased 'two birds die somewhere in the UK'

But - like you say - if someone has killed them on purpose, then I hope they get caught and prosecuted.

Edited February 11, 2022 by PeterHenry

[Agriv8]

Maybe we need cress **** to lead the WJ lot weed stand a chance then -! 
 

Agriv8

[Dave-G]

3 hours ago, PeterHenry said:

Another thing to point out - my experiance is that newspapers play very fast and loose with the term 'estate'. I've seen 60 acres being called an 'estate' before - and less.... Ok, back in the day 60 acres was (and in some cases still is) a small farm. I think the rule of thumb was that 300 acres was (once upon a time) an estate - although obviously there is a diffrence in how a farm or an estate is run on a practical level, and has been recently some bluring of the edges as well. To mix things up more, we all know that legally it means land owned by someone, although the term itself has a emotive / evocative / Downton Abbey side to it as well.

The bird(s) could well have died on an estate that had a shoot, or could have died on a farm that made up part of a syndicate. Or - as we all know - some form of shooting takes place over the vast majority of privately owned land in the UK..... and frankly, it sounds far less suspicious if its phrased 'two birds die somewhere in the UK'

But - like you say - if someone has killed them on purpose, then I hope they get caught and prosecuted.

I wouldn't be surprised if the birds were found elsewhere and moved to an estate - or plain lies about where they were found.

[Vince Green]

23 hours ago, Gas seal said:

The definition of wild birds  changed in 2004 , all birds are protected by law. There is no such thing in law as a pest species.. Wild mallard eggs can be taken by authorised persons but can’t be sold.  Anyone can can take game birds for breeding. Game birds have their own law, from the 1800s l think. Anyone can shoot them nowadays , no license required.  Authorised persons can kill birds to protect wild birds. The question to DEFRA would be are pheasants and red leg partridge wild birds or non native birds released into the wild. Non native birds are on the general licence.The game shoots are been noticed with the killing of birds of prey, the sale of game, numbers of birds released and the numbers lost. The numbers can be found on the government website, It’s interesting reading. The kill game license stopped in 2007 . Fox hunting stopped in 2004 . Hare coursing in 2005. Fox hunting and the Warterloo cup where traditional country sports followed by a lot people over  many years. Fox hunting scenes were on Christmas cards. If DEFRA can’t sort it out it’s down to lawyers again. I don’t think tradition, the way people dress or carry dead birds will make a difference with the lawyers. It’s a new way of life to get used to. 

 

 

Good post

[redial]

The game license. I had forgotten about those.

Do you think they will ever return.

My mate went to the post office to buy one some years ago. The counter assistant said "I hate selling these".

[wymberley]

31 minutes ago, redial said:

The game license. I had forgotten about those.

Do you think they will ever return.

My mate went to the post office to buy one some years ago. The counter assistant said "I hate selling these".

I got them so as not to let the farmer down as he'd taken on the rights from the estate when a couple of small syndicates decided to pack it in and "gave" them to me as a thank you. Went in the PO to get the second one only to find out that it had the next serial number to the one I already had.

[Scully]

44 minutes ago, wymberley said:

I got them so as not to let the farmer down as he'd taken on the rights from the estate when a couple of small syndicates decided to pack it in and "gave" them to me as a thank you. Went in the PO to get the second one only to find out that it had the next serial number to the one I already had.

I remember when visiting guns staying at a local hotel, would buy theirs from our local PO as they couldn’t get them ‘back home’.
If I recall, it cost more to administer the license than was received in revenue. 

[Gas seal]

Hi thanks Vince Green . Hi scully . The game license would have cost more to administer but it would have cost more to change. It refers to exemptions from payment for members of the royal family and their gamekeepers, Male servants on their masters land and hare coursing with greyhounds. I don’t know how it lasted so long or the game laws. DEFRA have until the 27th of February to respond to Wild Justice or they will take them to court. I would say it was a good thing that the game license stopped when it did, Wild Justice or a lot of people out there would have stopped it. I thought as is this about the general licence / Wild Justice it would be in a different category. A lot of people will be waiting for the outcome on Thursday or Friday. 

[ShootingEgg]

5 hours ago, Scully said:

If I recall, it cost more to administer the license than was received in revenue

Sounds a bit like the current sgc and fac costs . Not that I want to pay more for me certs haha

[NatureBoy]

Shame to hear so much negativity on this thread! WJ not the great threat or influence they would have many believe now. Only so many times they can keep repeating themselves and spin things. Public not as stupid and taken in as they think either. Hearing Packham has lost a lot of credibility from more folk all the time. Couple of new books coming out soon from Patrick Galbreath and Jake Finnes that will have Avery spitting feathers. As for Tingay, angry obsessive, the hate is strong in that one! Up to us all to stand up for our way of life. If we really care that is! Same ol story! Still to many happy to leave it to a few!       NB

[JDog]

6 minutes ago, NatureBoy said:

Shame to hear so much negativity on this thread! WJ not the great threat or influence they would have many believe now. Only so many times they can keep repeating themselves and spin things. Public not as stupid and taken in as they think either. Hearing Packham has lost a lot of credibility from more folk all the time. Couple of new books coming out soon from Patrick Galbreath and Jake Finnes that will have Avery spitting feathers. As for Tingay, angry obsessive, the hate is strong in that one! Up to us all to stand up for our way of life. If we really care that is! Same ol story! Still to many happy to leave it to a few!       NB

Agreed. This forum is guilty of promulgating the myth of WJ.

[PeterHenry]

14 minutes ago, NatureBoy said:

Shame to hear so much negativity on this thread! WJ not the great threat or influence they would have many believe now. Only so many times they can keep repeating themselves and spin things. Public not as stupid and taken in as they think either. Hearing Packham has lost a lot of credibility from more folk all the time. Couple of new books coming out soon from Patrick Galbreath and Jake Finnes that will have Avery spitting feathers. As for Tingay, angry obsessive, the hate is strong in that one! Up to us all to stand up for our way of life. If we really care that is! Same ol story! Still to many happy to leave it to a few!       NB

👍

[Gas seal]

I wouldn’t say Wild Justice is a myth. They stopped one general license and are taking action against the new license. The shooting industry can afford lawyers, I rely on shooting organisations lawyers. It’s a different world from when l started shooting and it’s not going to return. When I replied to the consultation for the general licence l sent my reply hand written with as much detail as I could recorded delivery. If it was good enough for the organisations it was good enough for me. It took me a while to do it and know that I didn’t just leave it to someone else to do it for me. After much reading after the consultation l learned that no more written consultations are allowed it’s by computer only. It’s about lawyers and money now and it’s not going to change.

[old man]

On 10/02/2022 at 07:43, captainhastings said:

Can't be leave any one actually cares which way up a bird is being carried on a cartridge box in case it offends any one. Also don't see why we should kowtow to the people against our various sports for fear of offending or upsetting them. There minds are made up. I used be able to walk through the village with a few rabbits on my shoulder. I tried it a few years back with a shovel ferret and lurcher and got stopped by the police with in twenty minutes as some one reported me. Police lady was good as gold and said you know what some people are like. Wife had the car at the time so shanks pony it was that day. Sad sad times for the country sports. My grandson was born this week bless him and do hope I get to show him the country sports like longnetting and ferreting plus all the joys of shooting before it all goes out the window. Oh and fishing the list is endless

It may never end till its deemed cruel to keep tofu in a fridge?

Sad to say the barmy never cease?