Winter of discontent.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

9 minutes ago, Scully said:

And that’s the problem. People are claiming all is bad now, but it’s not like there’s an alternative which will mean a change for the better. 
As far as I know all these unions which are currently calling for strikes, are labour supporters. It’s not like they’re going to stop striking if labour win the the next GE. 
Is everyone claiming the garden would be rosy if the Tories were booted out? 

No, not everyone, just the usual suspects!   

[ditchman]

22 minutes ago, Scully said:

And that’s the problem. People are claiming all is bad now, but it’s not like there’s an alternative which will mean a change for the better. 
As far as I know all these unions which are currently calling for strikes, are labour supporters. It’s not like they’re going to stop striking if labour win the the next GE. 
Is everyone claiming the garden would be rosy if the Tories were booted out? 
 

the problem is THERE ARE NO TORIES...............they are all a bunch of unqualified self serving wasters.....the tories just dont exist in westminster anymore.........

[Rim Fire]

26 minutes ago, Scully said:

And that’s the problem. People are claiming all is bad now, but it’s not like there’s an alternative which will mean a change for the better. 
As far as I know all these unions which are currently calling for strikes, are labour supporters. It’s not like they’re going to stop striking if labour win the the next GE. 
Is everyone claiming the garden would be rosy if the Tories were booted out? 
 

I watched politics live today and the strikes was mentioned and the Labour supporter said there was no strikes under the last Labour government how true i don't know 

Edited December 8, 2022 by Rim Fire

[Yellow Bear]

10 minutes ago, Rim Fire said:

I watched politics live today and the strikes was mentioned and the Labour supporter said there was no strikes under the last Labour government how true i don't know 

I am not certain either but I do know that they caved to any large union wage demand.  SWMBA worked for the NHS and her rate of pay increase over that period was "percentage wise" 3 times mine which included moving 3 times for increases.   

[Dougy]

4 hours ago, scolopax said:

 

You are wrong. 
 

old people, the infirm and geriatric, are the ones putting such a huge strain on the NHS, and it’s only going to get worse as the immediate post war baby boomers get geneuinely aged. The NHS was put into being when we had a young population, now we have an increasingly aged population.   It’s all about demographics.

 

Old people, the infirm and the geriatric are entitled to put what you call a strain on the NHS. 

They have actually added to the pot, taking out of the pot without adding has more to do with demographics,,,  why on earth cant people see that. 

 

[Scully]

20 minutes ago, Rim Fire said:

I watched politics live today and the strikes was mentioned and the Labour supporter said there was no strikes under the last Labour government how true i don't know 

They may well be right, I wouldn’t know, but we didn’t have all the uncertainty that Brexit caused, a two year pandemic to pay for and a war on our doorstep either. 🤷‍♂️

[button]

3 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

Anything’s better than the complete shambles we have at the moment … and there’s a lot of people out there that are saying that. 
 

Just look at the huge scale of the strike across the board. 
 

The writings on the wall. 

Be careful what you wish for, try living under SNP rule and you may have a change of opinion 

[Gordon R]

Quote

I watched politics live today and the strikes was mentioned and the Labour supporter said there was no strikes under the last Labour government how true i don't know 

It's straightforward. The Labour supporter lied.

[oowee]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

Is everyone claiming the garden would be rosy if the Tories were booted out? 
 

No far from it although they would struggle to be worse. We need some balance to th ependulum before we go back to this lot again (hopefully fully remodelled). 

[Lloyd90]

20 minutes ago, button said:

Be careful what you wish for, try living under SNP rule and you may have a change of opinion 

I have no wish to live under any Government that would ban shooting and my way of life. 
 

However, this forum is a shooting forum, and people who shoot are generally (yes generalising) fairly well off. It’s a very expensive sport / hobby, as is lots of the things that go with it. 
 

Just like a lot (probably a majority) of the general public wouldn’t care if shooting was banned, there’s a lot of people out there having a bad time… and there’s no love for the Tory’s at all. 
 

Look at the current situation, House of Lords members in PPE scandals… Members of Parliament putting the heating bills for their stables on their expenses … Tory MP’s going on Tv shows whilst being paid by the tax payer. 
 

Multiple successive leaders failing to hold the party together … the current leader U-turning and giving in on multiple policies when put under pressure by the back benchers. 
 

 

To just repeatedly state “Ah but Labour would be worse” over and over as the mickey taking gets worse and worse just isn’t going to cut it. 

[Boybrit]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

They may well be right, I wouldn’t know, but we didn’t have all the uncertainty that Brexit caused, a two year pandemic to pay for and a war on our doorstep either. 🤷‍♂️

Are you now part blaming Brexit for all this uncertainty? Bit of a turnaround there.

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, ditchman said:

the problem is THERE ARE NO TORIES...............they are all a bunch of unqualified self serving wasters.....the tories just dont exist in westminster anymore.........

Spot on

[Yellow Bear]

4 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

To just repeatedly state “Ah but Labour would be worse” over and over as the mickey taking gets worse and worse just isn’t going to cut it.

OK I'll bite, please be so kind as to tell me Labours policies.  The only ones I can find are:-

More money for single teenage mothers.  (Uncosted)

Abolish House of lords (but they have not said what will be in it's place){Uncosted}

Throw Money at the public services  (Uncosted)

 

[Scully]

6 minutes ago, Boybrit said:

Are you now part blaming Brexit for all this uncertainty? Bit of a turnaround there.

No, not at all; I’d have to pretty pig-headed to deny Brexit would be plain sailing, but I was aware of that before I voted. 

 

[button]

26 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

OK I'll bite, please be so kind as to tell me Labours policies.  The only ones I can find are:-

More money for single teenage mothers.  (Uncosted)

Abolish House of lords (but they have not said what will be in it's place){Uncosted}

Throw Money at the public services  (Uncosted)

 

Right again 👍

[Newbie to this]

37 minutes ago, Scully said:

No, not at all; I’d have to pretty pig-headed to deny Brexit would be plain sailing, but I was aware of that before I voted. 

 

[oowee]

34 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

OK I'll bite, please be so kind as to tell me Labours policies.  The only ones I can find are:-

More money for single teenage mothers.  (Uncosted)

Abolish House of lords (but they have not said what will be in it's place){Uncosted}

Throw Money at the public services  (Uncosted)

 

Apart from the possible abolition of the lords it sounds like more of the same.

The abolition proposal puts forward a reformed elected second chamber that could block parliament legislating for devolved areas. 

I like the proposals for settling the constitution of the Union. A legal requirement for decisions made close to the people impacted. A thought through constitutional approach to devolution. We could get an English parliament. 

I like proposals for an independent ethics committee. We need this now more than ever after the Johnson debacle.

Anti corruption commissioner with the power to investigate and prosecute is another good idea. 

As with all of this stuff the detail is all important but even many tories would support this stuff.

 

 

 

 

 

[12gauge82]

2 hours ago, ditchman said:

the problem is THERE ARE NO TORIES...............they are all a bunch of unqualified self serving wasters.....the tories just dont exist in westminster anymore.........

This is absolutely spot on 👍

[derbyduck]

4 hours ago, oowee said:

Some would say if they can't pay for care then the we need a more radical alternative to deal with them. Something has to give in the NHS either we pay more and get more nurses or we agree a lower standard and level of service. 

 

But they have not paid enough and those paying tax don't want to pay anymore. 

Anything else. 

get off your your high horse ! I paid more taxes than most and carried on working to the age of 69 before retiring , I didn't pay NI contributions for the last 4yrs of my working life ,but my employer did at a rate of £94 per week ,

if you are looking to blame anyone for this mess look to the self serving politicians on both sides of the house and the edge fund guys that also grab everything and give nothing back , some of you guys want to take a step backwards and look at your selves !

[oowee]

5 minutes ago, derbyduck said:

get off your your high horse ! I paid more taxes than most and carried on working to the age of 69 before retiring , I didn't pay NI contributions for the last 4yrs of my working life ,but my employer did at a rate of £94 per week ,

if you are looking to blame anyone for this mess look to the self serving politicians on both sides of the house and the edge fund guys that also grab everything and give nothing back , some of you guys want to take a step backwards and look at your selves !

That is exactly my point. We have to pay more to get the service we expect or reduce expectations its a choice. Where it comes from if we want more is down to the govt we choose. 

[Jim Neal]

3 hours ago, derbyduck said:

I didn't pay NI contributions for the last 4yrs of my working life ,but my employer did at a rate of £94 per week

I'm not on either side here, but just for perspective: my dad (78) has just been discharged from hospital after being in the care of the NHS for almost 11 months, spread across various hospitals.  He's received various operations and treatments including amputation, 10 weeks of kidney dialysis, intensive nursing care, rehabilitation care, stacks of equipment installed at home provided by Occupational Therapy, follow-up appointments, 6 weeks of re-enablement carers visits 3 times a day, a list of drugs you need a lorry to deliver...... I've probably missed a lot....... How many £94 a week's is that?  It's probably a lot more than £94 an hour.

[Nuke]

9 hours ago, derbyduck said:

get off your your high horse ! I paid more taxes than most and carried on working to the age of 69 before retiring , I didn't pay NI contributions for the last 4yrs of my working life ,but my employer did at a rate of £94 per week ,

if you are looking to blame anyone for this mess look to the self serving politicians on both sides of the house and the edge fund guys that also grab everything and give nothing back , some of you guys want to take a step backwards and look at your selves !

You payed to little but its the same in all countries. It will even out a bit when all the people born in the 1940's have gone.

/M

[discobob]

7 hours ago, Jim Neal said:

I'm not on either side here, but just for perspective: my dad (78) has just been discharged from hospital after being in the care of the NHS for almost 11 months, spread across various hospitals.  He's received various operations and treatments including amputation, 10 weeks of kidney dialysis, intensive nursing care, rehabilitation care, stacks of equipment installed at home provided by Occupational Therapy, follow-up appointments, 6 weeks of re-enablement carers visits 3 times a day, a list of drugs you need a lorry to deliver...... I've probably missed a lot....... How many £94 a week's is that?  It's probably a lot more than £94 an hour.

ah - but factor in all the managers that sit there taking money to tell people who know what to do what to do.....Managing targets that in essence means more cost for everything

[derbyduck]

3 hours ago, Nuke said:

You payed to little but its the same in all countries. It will even out a bit when all the people born in the 1940's have gone.

/M

oh and how much have you paid ? and your suggestion is what ? nuke the old folks homes ,the Darby & Joan clubs ,or perhaps the Final Solution Mien Herr ! 

 

9 hours ago, Jim Neal said:

I'm not on either side here, but just for perspective: my dad (78) has just been discharged from hospital after being in the care of the NHS for almost 11 months, spread across various hospitals.  He's received various operations and treatments including amputation, 10 weeks of kidney dialysis, intensive nursing care, rehabilitation care, stacks of equipment installed at home provided by Occupational Therapy, follow-up appointments, 6 weeks of re-enablement carers visits 3 times a day, a list of drugs you need a lorry to deliver...... I've probably missed a lot....... How many £94 a week's is that?  It's probably a lot more than £94 an hour.

 

9 hours ago, Jim Neal said:

I'm not on either side here, but just for perspective: my dad (78) has just been discharged from hospital after being in the care of the NHS for almost 11 months, spread across various hospitals.  He's received various operations and treatments including amputation, 10 weeks of kidney dialysis, intensive nursing care, rehabilitation care, stacks of equipment installed at home provided by Occupational Therapy, follow-up appointments, 6 weeks of re-enablement carers visits 3 times a day, a list of drugs you need a lorry to deliver...... I've probably missed a lot....... How many £94 a week's is that?  It's probably a lot more than £94 an hour.

Jim that's unfortunate that your dad has had a bad time of it and I do hope he get some comfort in the rest of his life , 

but there are people that are of the same age as your dad that have paid there dues and have been lucky to have got through life without needing such treatment ! all the best to you and your Dad.

Edited December 9, 2022 by derbyduck

[Rewulf]

18 hours ago, oowee said:

That is exactly my point. We have to pay more to get the service we expect or reduce expectations its a choice.

We can pay more , a lot more , and get no better service, as the extra money is squandered by mis management within that service , the NHS being a prime example.
The other being Royal mail , who have put prices up considerably , yet still provide a highly inefficient service, yet courier companies can do overnight service for the same price if not cheaper ?

The amount of people not paying taxes increases year on year , through birth and immigration, the 50,000 dinghy divers who have arrived this year (the tip of the iceberg) are at present costing £1000s a week , and will be many years before they pay anything back into the system, in most cases , never.

Do the maths , what are they going to cost the (ever dwindling) honest taxpayers EACH, over the next 60 or 70 years , especially when they start shipping their families over ?

There is a balance and tipping point here , that needs to be addressed.

18 hours ago, oowee said:

Where it comes from if we want more is down to the govt we choose. 

Lets examine that statement.
WE choose government ? Im not sure , we vote for what we think is the worst case scenario, what we get is more often than not , the worst case scenario.
If the tories , known as they are lately , for austerity and cutting costly services , STILL cant balance the books , what possible use would labour do in this kind of environment, with their record of virtually bankrupting the nation ?