Only in Krankie Land

[billytheghillie]

Watched Reporting Scotland news the other night, some bright sparks have set up a unit for alkys.  The guy, Pete the jakey is sitting there scoffing a can of wife beater  (Stella Artois ). He says this is a great scheme and i can get drink almost any time. Next clip one of the unit workers opens up a large fridge and says to reporter, " As you can see this shelf has Petes tinnies on it, this shelf has Johns tinnies on it, and so on.  Good God what next up here! They will be letting out criminals next and handing them guns. What a sorry state this country is in.

[Mice!]

OK I've read it twice, and err you what?? Has Weatherspoons shut?

Alkys are being supplied somewhere to sit and free drink??

[12gauge82]

Sounds good to me, a few people and a fridge full of free bear, sounds like a party 🍺🍺🍺👍😂

[ditchman]

give them tins of gravy instead

[Vince Green]

I'm in !

Where do you sign up for this scheme?

[billytheghillie]

55 minutes ago, Mice! said:

OK I've read it twice, and err you what?? Has Weatherspoons shut?

Alkys are being supplied somewhere to sit and free drink??

Yes thats right, sign up to the programme and get free drink.

[humperdingle]

Registered alcoholics already receive extra benefits as far as i’m aware, to account for their… ahem… “Enhanced dietary requirements”.

[Mice!]

59 minutes ago, billytheghillie said:

Yes thats right, sign up to the programme and get free drink.

Tax payers money being well abused. 

[chrisjpainter]

I found an article on it. It's a pilot scheme for 10 individuals to see whether giving them controlled amounts of alcohol can stop the cycle of binge buying which leads to pressure on the hospitals in emergency care. It's being sold as a way to save money - giving them what they need stops them costing the NHS more in ambulances and treatments. It's based on a Canadian model. Right now, it seems to be an attempt to help the absolute worst alcoholics for whom traditional therapies don't/haven't worked.

Of the ten? Well two have been booted out and one left of his own accord. 30% failure rate in a few months. It doesn't sound like it's being that effective really! The way the article's written, it doesn't feel like there's any incentive to actually quit, it's just keeping them hooked, but in a potentially less expensive way...when it actually works and they don't just go out and buy more anyway...

Sold as ground-breaking, feels like giving up on tackling the cause.

The scheme that gives alcohol to alcoholics - BBC News

[aldivalloch]

Well, well, the self righteous are out in force today.

I presume that the OP is using the word Krankieland to refer to Scotland. That's where this project is being run.

It was featured on the radio the other day, and the spokesperson interviewed explained that the intention is to sign up alcohol-addicted individuals to a programme which is designed to wean them off by controlling their intake in such a manner as to avoid them going into withdrawal. It was made abundantly clear that the cost of their alcohol is deducted from their personal means. If those means are benefits, so be it.

It was made equally clear that experience so far of controlling the subjects' drinking is that it has taken significant pressure off the police and medical services which would otherwise have been required to deal with the fall-out from episodes of excessive drinking.

I take great issue with the word "alkys". It's deeply disrespectful to fellow human beings who have become addicted to alcohol for a whole range of reasons - for example, abuse, relationship break-down, PTSD, mental ill-health.

For the record, the farmer who gave me my first permission was an alcoholic who had been "dry" for a number of years. He's gone now  but he was a dedicated family man, generous to a fault, and he knew more about the natural world than anyone I've ever met.

So, to all you who have allowed your self-righteousness to ridicule this attempt to turn around the lives of your fellow men and women, what are you doing to help them? Got any constructive suggestions? Sitting on your smug backsides and directing your venom at them won't cut it.

I wish you goodnight, and caution you to consider the adage, "There but for the grace of God go I."

 

 

[Rookandrabbit]

Radio 4 also did a piece on this project. It was given the slant of being cost effective in reducing the demand on police, social services, ambulance / paramedics,  hospital attendance, treatment etc.

when you consider the cost of just one alcoholic being arrested placed under constant observation cell cleansing upon release

or medical intervention for collapsed male/ female alcoholic intoxicated in the street tying up overstretched hospital resources…

I suppose it is cost effective to house the people in a hostel and give them alcohol as they need a certain amount in their system to just function.
 

It all comes down to finances

[Rookandrabbit]

Sorry Aldivalloch we probably heard the same report. As you know just stopping alcohol intake can cause seizures electrolyte imbalance and lead to death not a pleasant way to die. 
 

I am sure a lot of these people were fully functioning valued members of society who through circumstance or trauma ended up in this lifestyle.

as a child I recalled my friends parents speaking about a highly decorated polish war hero, a fighter pilot in the RAF, who was an alcoholic and found dead in a derelict  house with a bottle of meths next to his body.

I didn’t know what meths was…….

Very sad lots of people have the ability to cope but some don’t. Many ex forces personnel are living on the streets…very sad.

[chrisjpainter]

53 minutes ago, aldivalloch said:

Well, well, the self righteous are out in force today.

I presume that the OP is using the word Krankieland to refer to Scotland. That's where this project is being run.

It was featured on the radio the other day, and the spokesperson interviewed explained that the intention is to sign up alcohol-addicted individuals to a programme which is designed to wean them off by controlling their intake in such a manner as to avoid them going into withdrawal. It was made abundantly clear that the cost of their alcohol is deducted from their personal means. If those means are benefits, so be it.

It was made equally clear that experience so far of controlling the subjects' drinking is that it has taken significant pressure off the police and medical services which would otherwise have been required to deal with the fall-out from episodes of excessive drinking.

I take great issue with the word "alkys". It's deeply disrespectful to fellow human beings who have become addicted to alcohol for a whole range of reasons - for example, abuse, relationship break-down, PTSD, mental ill-health.

For the record, the farmer who gave me my first permission was an alcoholic who had been "dry" for a number of years. He's gone now  but he was a dedicated family man, generous to a fault, and he knew more about the natural world than anyone I've ever met.

So, to all you who have allowed your self-righteousness to ridicule this attempt to turn around the lives of your fellow men and women, what are you doing to help them? Got any constructive suggestions? Sitting on your smug backsides and directing your venom at them won't cut it.

I wish you goodnight, and caution you to consider the adage, "There but for the grace of God go I."

 

 

I would say that 'significant pressure' probably isn't going to be removed by taking seven people out of the situation. And I disagree with your implication that this is about turning their lives around. Yes, for some it might stop things getting worse. But that's stagnation, not improvement. As @Rookandrabbitsays, it's about finance, not welfare. There seems to be so many flaws in the process, not least of which is the fact that they're still able to buy alcohol outside the programme. Reporters being greeted by a man swaying down the corridors, clearly inebriated, suggest that we're talking fine lines of limiting alcohol consumption. 

It's really difficult to pin down any of the research coming out of Canada. The first peer-reviewed papers aren't terribly helpful, because all CMAPs from which their data were collated were run in such varying manners, with different outcomes and goals that it's difficult to pin down any particular success. Even basic things like criteria for qualification and alcohol provision differed. There is also the huge danger that these kind of programmes in the long run remove the incentive to quit. Yes, for some abstinence may never happen. But for how many could it have been a reality, but was never achieved because there was an easier option of not having to quit? One of the Canadian peer reviewed papers stated that alcohol price was a massive factor . The more expensive it is, the less was consumed. Negative substitutionary behaviour was demonstrated, but interestingly theft of alcohol was low and almost half just...went without alcohol. That's odd, seeing as this is a service that's meant to be targeting those who can't give up. It kind of suggests it's not about the alcohol at all. If that's the case, just giving them alcohol will, as I said, simply lead to stagnation. It doesn't improve the underlying issues. That same paper also concluded that long term MAP users were indeed less likely to ever give up. The implication there is that these services run the risk of keeping people as alcoholics.

There are serious concerns with projects like this. It's not about getting on a high horse, it's about questioning the effectiveness of them in the long term and whether they're actually genuinely bettering the lives of the service users. On both counts, I say they will ultimately fail.

Edited February 10, 2023 by chrisjpainter

[TIGHTCHOKE]

9 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

Sounds good to me, a few people and a fridge full of free bear, sounds like a party 🍺🍺🍺👍😂

I bet the conversation would be really dull!   

[Vince Green]

At least they are trying to find a way through for these people. You can't knock them for that can you ?

You can't help an alcoholic only they can do that themselves if they decide to. Giving them a route back is what this scheme is trying to do.k

Edited February 10, 2023 by Vince Green

[henry d]

7 hours ago, aldivalloch said:

I take great issue with the word "alkys". It's deeply disrespectful to fellow human beings who have become addicted to alcohol for a whole range of reasons - for example, abuse, relationship break-down, PTSD, mental ill-health.

Well said 👏 

[Scully]

7 hours ago, aldivalloch said:

Well, well, the self righteous are out in force today.

I presume that the OP is using the word Krankieland to refer to Scotland. That's where this project is being run.

It was featured on the radio the other day, and the spokesperson interviewed explained that the intention is to sign up alcohol-addicted individuals to a programme which is designed to wean them off by controlling their intake in such a manner as to avoid them going into withdrawal. It was made abundantly clear that the cost of their alcohol is deducted from their personal means. If those means are benefits, so be it.

It was made equally clear that experience so far of controlling the subjects' drinking is that it has taken significant pressure off the police and medical services which would otherwise have been required to deal with the fall-out from episodes of excessive drinking.

I take great issue with the word "alkys". It's deeply disrespectful to fellow human beings who have become addicted to alcohol for a whole range of reasons - for example, abuse, relationship break-down, PTSD, mental ill-health.

For the record, the farmer who gave me my first permission was an alcoholic who had been "dry" for a number of years. He's gone now  but he was a dedicated family man, generous to a fault, and he knew more about the natural world than anyone I've ever met.

So, to all you who have allowed your self-righteousness to ridicule this attempt to turn around the lives of your fellow men and women, what are you doing to help them? Got any constructive suggestions? Sitting on your smug backsides and directing your venom at them won't cut it.

I wish you goodnight, and caution you to consider the adage, "There but for the grace of God go I."

 

 

Good post. 👍

[derbyduck]

9 hours ago, humperdingle said:

Registered alcoholics already receive extra benefits as far as i’m aware, to account for their… ahem… “Enhanced dietary requirements”.

This ^^ it been going on for years down here ! 30 yrs ago I was told about it by a chap who said he got £50 a week on top of his other benefits for the drink .

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, my father would have loved that 🤔

[Bobba]

10 hours ago, humperdingle said:

Registered alcoholics already receive extra benefits as far as i’m aware, to account for their… ahem… “Enhanced dietary requirements”.

Some do, some don’t. A former friend, now deceased, became an alcoholic, which finally contributed to his passing. A sad way to go. On one occasion he was sounding off about both his GP an Social Services. His argument was that drug addicts get assistance with their addiction but the GP wouldn’t prescribe him brandy and the SS wouldn’t increase his benefits to pay for it.

Many of us will remember him from one brilliant line from his eulogy. In his early years Frankie had played for Bristol Rugby and that line was “ Frankie was a rugby player. Not just an ordinary player, not just a good player but Frankie was a brilliant player. I have that on good authority. Frankie told me that himself” A nice way to remember him.

[billytheghillie]

19 hours ago, aldivalloch said:

Well, well, the self righteous are out in force today.

I presume that the OP is using the word Krankieland to refer to Scotland. That's where this project is being run.

It was featured on the radio the other day, and the spokesperson interviewed explained that the intention is to sign up alcohol-addicted individuals to a programme which is designed to wean them off by controlling their intake in such a manner as to avoid them going into withdrawal. It was made abundantly clear that the cost of their alcohol is deducted from their personal means. If those means are benefits, so be it.

It was made equally clear that experience so far of controlling the subjects' drinking is that it has taken significant pressure off the police and medical services which would otherwise have been required to deal with the fall-out from episodes of excessive drinking.

I take great issue with the word "alkys". It's deeply disrespectful to fellow human beings who have become addicted to alcohol for a whole range of reasons - for example, abuse, relationship break-down, PTSD, mental ill-health.

For the record, the farmer who gave me my first permission was an alcoholic who had been "dry" for a number of years. He's gone now  but he was a dedicated family man, generous to a fault, and he knew more about the natural world than anyone I've ever met.

So, to all you who have allowed your self-righteousness to ridicule this attempt to turn around the lives of your fellow men and women, what are you doing to help them? Got any constructive suggestions? Sitting on your smug backsides and directing your venom at them won't cut it.

I wish you goodnight, and caution you to consider the adage, "There but for the grace of God go I."

 

 

yes krankie land is Scotland, its where i live, and it boils my urine this total waste of money. If i choose i could be a alky, druggie etc. but im not. i chose to say no, and yes i have had stress, worries in my 66 years on this mortal coil, so to me its not deeply disrespectful to fellow human beings, i chose to say no, it really is that simple.

[miki]

I live in Scotland too, if you are a drug addict or an alcoholic (active or 'recoivering') you get free gym membership.

Otherwise as a law abiding/healthy/tap paying adult it's around £39 a month

If you get community service for (basically) being disrespectful of other persons and property, you get free hours in the gym which count down your 'punishment' at 1.5 times (66 hours in the gym = 100 hours community service).
There are lots of other 'perks' too, in fact there are career scroungers that play the system very successfully, flats, clothing allowances, holidays paid for, a weekly income ....

You don't really need to be clever or hard working just understand and play the system and your quids in.

Edited February 10, 2023 by miki

[henry d]

2 hours ago, billytheghillie said:

...i chose to say no, it really is that simple.

No it isn't, no one wakes up one day and says; "You know what, I'm going to become a substance abuser..." plenty are in families where alcohol etc is as acceptable as food is elsewhere.

[Westley]

I presume ALL of the above posters are NONE smokers   ?

[Scully]

13 hours ago, billytheghillie said:

yes krankie land is Scotland, its where i live, and it boils my urine this total waste of money. If i choose i could be a alky, druggie etc. but im not. i chose to say no, and yes i have had stress, worries in my 66 years on this mortal coil, so to me its not deeply disrespectful to fellow human beings, i chose to say no, it really is that simple.

From millionaires to the destitute, drug abuse or dependancy isn’t really a lifestyle choice, there can be countless other factors involved.