A Warning from a Barrister re Folding Pocket Knives

[Duckandswing]

I better go empty out my truck, it’s full of different knives. 

[Scully]

8 minutes ago, Duckandswing said:

I better go empty out my truck, it’s full of different knives. 

Ditto. 👍

[Centrepin]

8 hours ago, wymberley said:

Agh!

Within a minute or two of watching the piece the word, 'drivel' sprang to mind so I scrubbed around the rest. Then I spotted Centrepin's post which was absolutely spot on for my money. As is apparent from the above 'blank' quote, Centrepin then deleted his response. Perhaps this drives home the point that we don't have 'weapons' which are defined as instruments of offence or defence and also semi (and even worse, 'semI') automatics are 'self loading' rifles or shotguns.

Apparently my responses are too blunt for a public forum.

Sometimes it's just better to say nowt.

[Dougy]

Anything in the hands of a person intent on doing harm to another person or creature,  even themselves is a weapon. 

A knife is a tool.

The intended use of that tool would make it a weapon if the intent was there to cause harm. 

 

[Fellside]

Watched the video thanks to the OP for sharing. All good advice really. I have no concerns and I don’t think many of us should - as we have ‘good reason’ for what we do in the field. That said if a deer stalker walked down the street to the takeaway and found themselves questioned about a 4” locked blade on their person…..?! Not a leg to stand on. It’s about the application of common sense. 

[old man]

13 hours ago, Dougy said:

Anything in the hands of a person intent on doing harm to another person or creature,  even themselves is a weapon. 

A knife is a tool.

The intended use of that tool would make it a weapon if the intent was there to cause harm. 

 

Exactly so. A gun is a gun until used offensively or defensively, just a tool IMHO.

As is a pencil?

[eddoakley]

18 hours ago, Westley said:

22 hours ago, oowee said:

WEAPON????

A knife is, like it or not, a 'bladed weapon'  !

As is a screwdriver, saw, chisel, spade.....a stick is a weapon, a pencil...in fact anything could be construed as a weapon but to fear carrying a perfectly legitimate tool because someone may try to construe it as something else is a perfect example of what's been said many times before- control and restrict the law abiding sheeple. 

I often have tools in my possession when out and about and will happily explain why if asked by police.

 

Edd

[Penelope]

17 hours ago, discobob said:

In the future we will only be allowed Sporks (perhaps eco friendly bamboo ones)!!

nah, single use cardboard. Bamboo is far too useful a material for them to let us have it 😁

[welsh1]

2 hours ago, old man said:

Exactly so. A gun is a gun until used offensively or defensively, just a tool IMHO.

As is a pencil?

a Gun is a weapon, it was specificly designed for the purpose of inflicting harm or physical damage as is a knife, a pencil was not designed to inflict harm or damage and only becomes a weapon when that item is used to inflict harm or damage

 

1 hour ago, eddoakley said:

As is a screwdriver, saw, chisel, spade.....a stick is a weapon, a pencil...in fact anything could be construed as a weapon but to fear carrying a perfectly legitimate tool because someone may try to construe it as something else is a perfect example of what's been said many times before- control and restrict the law abiding sheeple. 

I often have tools in my possession when out and about and will happily explain why if asked by police.

 

Edd

a Gun is a weapon, it was specificly designed for the purpose of inflicting harm or physical damage as is a knife, a pencil was not designed to inflict harm or damage and only becomes a weapon when that item is used to inflict harm or damage .

You must lok at what the primary design and use of each item is.

[wymberley]

53 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

a Gun is a weapon, it was specificly designed for the purpose of inflicting harm or physical damage as is a knife, a pencil was not designed to inflict harm or damage and only becomes a weapon when that item is used to inflict harm or damage

 

a Gun is a weapon, it was specificly designed for the purpose of inflicting harm or physical damage as is a knife, a pencil was not designed to inflict harm or damage and only becomes a weapon when that item is used to inflict harm or damage .

You must lok at what the primary design and use of each item is.

It is fortunate, I think, that the Forum is a site where we express opinions which are not necessarily facts.

[Fellside]

38 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

a Gun is a weapon, it was specificly designed for the purpose of inflicting harm or physical damage as is a knife, a pencil was not designed to inflict harm or damage and only becomes a weapon when that item is used to inflict harm or damage

 

a Gun is a weapon, it was specificly designed for the purpose of inflicting harm or physical damage as is a knife, a pencil was not designed to inflict harm or damage and only becomes a weapon when that item is used to inflict harm or damage .

You must lok at what the primary design and use of each item is.

I would see the legal side more like this:

A gun is only a ‘weapon’ if used against another human - i.e weaponised. For our purposes it’s a sporting gun. Similar with a knife. It only becomes an ‘offensive weapon’ if carried out of context from its intended purpose as a work tool. 

If person is ever suspected of using either as a weapon, their feet don’t touch the ground - and that’s how it should be of course. 

[welsh1]

19 minutes ago, Fellside said:

I would see the legal side more like this:

A gun is only a ‘weapon’ if used against another human - i.e weaponised. For our purposes it’s a sporting gun. Similar with a knife. It only becomes an ‘offensive weapon’ if carried out of context from its intended purpose as a work tool. 

If person is ever suspected of using either as a weapon, their feet don’t touch the ground - and that’s how it should be of course. 

There is no such thing as a sporting gun, only in your mind, it is a gun and guns were developed with one purpose in mind, it was designed to inflict harm or physical damage, calling it something else will not change its primary design.

An offensive weapon is something else, as it can be something which was not primarily designed as a weapon, but has been adapted to inflict harm . 

[Ttfjlc]

27 minutes ago, wymberley said:

It is fortunate, I think, that the Forum is a site where we express opinions which are not necessarily facts.

Yeah because forums thrive on bull **** 

[udderlyoffroad]

This is all a very interesting discussion on semantics, but for more precise legal definitions, have a look here, the CPS guide for prosecutors.

Of course, if you could read that after you've responded to the Home Office's firearms consultation, it would be appreciated....Knife legislation might be a wheelie bin fire, but it's a strange hill to die on, when other, more pressing matters of interest to us are at stake.  Just sayin'.

 

[Fellside]

55 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

There is no such thing as a sporting gun, only in your mind, it is a gun and guns were developed with one purpose in mind, it was designed to inflict harm or physical damage, calling it something else will not change its primary design.

An offensive weapon is something else, as it can be something which was not primarily designed as a weapon, but has been adapted to inflict harm . 

Straight from the Home Office Guidelines Intro’: “Some firearms and shot guns may be held on a firearm or shot gun certificate issued by the police”   etc. etc….. HO language and practice, setting out their stall so to speak. The word weapon isn’t used. Most of their terminology is around firearms and shotguns. 

However, they are further referred to as ‘weapons’ with in the context of potential criminality and harm - especially prohibited firearms. I’m sure your opinion will differ (and that’s absolutely fine), but I’m quite happy with the word ‘gun’. 

[welsh1]

24 minutes ago, Fellside said:

Straight from the Home Office Guidelines Intro’: “Some firearms and shot guns may be held on a firearm or shot gun certificate issued by the police”   etc. etc….. HO language and practice, setting out their stall so to speak. The word weapon isn’t used. Most of their terminology is around firearms and shotguns. 

However, they are further referred to as ‘weapons’ with in the context of potential criminality and harm - especially prohibited firearms. I’m sure your opinion will differ (and that’s absolutely fine), but I’m quite happy with the word ‘gun’. 

As an aside my Dad an old Artillery veteran would say "guns are what we fire, rifles are those little things the infantry use"

 

[Fellside]

59 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

As an aside my Dad an old Artillery veteran would say "guns are what we fire, rifles are those little things the infantry use"

 

Yes indeed - proper guns alright. 

[Bigbob]

20 hours ago, Longbower said:

Ohh heck , i'm going to have to buy a shorter nail file . 🤪

 

Can you field dress a rabbit with a spoon????

If your stuck bend them in half and use the top incisor teeth to make a hole its a neat trick i have seen it done twice this way 

[Vince Green]

A few years back when leathermans first became popular I remember a friend (then a serving police officer) moaning because they had all been told they were not allowed to equip themselves with anything "non issue "

He said it was absolutely ridiculous but I suppose there was a logic to it. Always someone going to test the limits of what is acceptable. 

I have a multi tool, it's in the boot of my car. Most common use for it is pliers and screwdrivers. The knife only gets used for opening boxes. If people didn't wrap so much tape round everything it would never get used hardly at all

[JohnfromUK]

31 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

A few years back when leathermans first became popular

The first Leatherman's didn't have locking blades and had a blade below 3 inches.  Whether they were legal is 'questionable' because although the blade is not 'locked', it cannot be completely closed without opening the handles part way.  Attached is a pic of my Leatherman PST from mid 1980s.  Without a lock, the (screwdrivers particularly) blades easily closed on the users fingers (which is why my near 40 years old example is still reasonably unworn and may show slight blood stains!).  really - without a lock, they are a very un-safe tool.

[old man]

Of course whatever the reality/legality it suits the narrative of officialdom to weaponise guns and knives as this allows them to pursue their ultimate aim, their removal?

My view is unchanged as both could lie on a table unused for 50 years and would remain a gun and a knife not weapons till they were actually used for offence or defence but I take your point.

[Bigbob]

WAs it the scouts a whistle , penknife and a bit of string and you where prepared to take on the world 

[oowee]

1 hour ago, Bigbob said:

WAs it the scouts a whistle , penknife and a bit of string and you where prepared to take on the world 

Don't forget a condom. 

[Longbower]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

Don't forget a condom. 

That was only 'the Boys Brigade'.

[eddoakley]

On 06/07/2023 at 10:14, welsh1 said:

 

 

a Gun is a weapon, it was specificly designed for the purpose of inflicting harm or physical damage as is a knife

Hahha really?

I'm knife not a tool? Was rock a weapon designed to infilct harm or used as a tool??  A stick? Until it was used as a club...

Ah, you know what? Not worth it. Clearly one of the sheeple.

 

Whether I Or anyone else act against it there no denying that the powers that be constantly erode our liberty and the "technicality" of whether something can be described as a weapon is another example.  The reality is that everything is a weapon of you want it to be. Allowing it to be described as a "potential weapon" is just another way to control what you are "allowed" to do.

 

Edd