andrewluke Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 can you borrow a shotgun if you have just had your certificate revoked?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPP Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 I would hope not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted December 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 Just now, PPP said: I would hope not so would i Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decoy1979 Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 Depends what you mean by borrow, if in the presence of a certificate holder then yes you can "borrow" his/her gun. But you cannot "borrow" as in take and use unsupervised is my understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant1 Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 i think you can still use another gun as long you are not a prohibited person.but only in the presence of a certificate holder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted December 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 this is what Dyfed-Powys say on their website; A shotgun certificate can only be revoked/refused if the holder is deemed to be a danger to the public safety or to the peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5x55SE Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, ant1 said: i think you can still use another gun as long you are not a prohibited person.but only in the presence of a certificate holder. 100% Correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 I would like to know a bit more about why the certificate was revoked first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted December 18, 2018 Report Share Posted December 18, 2018 I would be cautious if someone had their ticket revoked and wanted to use my guns with me, due to stories about Police saying your not fit due to hanging out with disreputable people... as Vince said I would be very concerned about the reason for removal. I do however know a bloke who lost his FAC due to leaving a few rounds of ammo in his car, which was broken into. He told the Police straight away and informed them that they had been stolen, only for the Police to immediately take away his guns. Is this bloke a danger to the public? I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prospero Posted December 19, 2018 Report Share Posted December 19, 2018 8 hours ago, Lloyd90 said: I do however know a bloke who lost his FAC due to leaving a few rounds of ammo in his car, which was broken into. He told the Police straight away and informed them that they had been stolen, only for the Police to immediately take away his guns. Is this bloke a danger to the public? I don't think so. I have heard of this a few times. It seems more like a punishment than keeping the public safety. Very unfair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted December 19, 2018 Report Share Posted December 19, 2018 Just now, Prospero said: I have heard of this a few times. It seems more like a punishment than keeping the public safety. Very unfair. I bet the Police would disagree with you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B725 Posted December 19, 2018 Report Share Posted December 19, 2018 A few year's ago we had a break in at home and in the Barbour coat that was stolen there was 6 12 bore cartridges, the police did think about revoking my certificate. 11pm Saturday night they phoned to say concidering what we have been through I could keep it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow white Posted December 19, 2018 Report Share Posted December 19, 2018 (edited) B725 why would thay do that there are no resticions on where to store cartriges and how would thay now there where 6 cartriges in the pockets😤 Edited December 19, 2018 by snow white Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted December 19, 2018 Report Share Posted December 19, 2018 Very odd. 1 hour ago, B725 said: A few year's ago we had a break in at home and in the Barbour coat that was stolen there was 6 12 bore cartridges, the police did think about revoking my certificate. 11pm Saturday night they phoned to say concidering what we have been through I could keep it. Also ammo in and guns in car. If you have followed HO guidance should b ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpy22 Posted December 19, 2018 Report Share Posted December 19, 2018 1 hour ago, B725 said: A few year's ago we had a break in at home and in the Barbour coat that was stolen there was 6 12 bore cartridges, the police did think about revoking my certificate. 11pm Saturday night they phoned to say concidering what we have been through I could keep it. Seems odd thought there were no restrictions on shotgun cartridges as there are on fac ammo. Obviously they would expect you to be sensible. But losing license for that would seem very harsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B725 Posted December 19, 2018 Report Share Posted December 19, 2018 The reason for it was they caught the people who broke in, and they had the cartridges, I then had to give the police 2 more cartridges so they could dismantle them and forensics could then compare. They did say never to leave any in a coat pocket. To add insult to injury the home insurance would not pay out £200 for the value of the coat even though I had new for old policy saying I had been wearing it so I only got half the value, he also said I could contest it but will assure you that you won't win. Also the thief's would not be prosecuted for the cartridges as they had not tried to buy them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted December 19, 2018 Report Share Posted December 19, 2018 12 hours ago, Lloyd90 said: I do however know a bloke who lost his FAC due to leaving a few rounds of ammo in his car, which was broken into. He told the Police straight away and informed them that they had been stolen, only for the Police to immediately take away his guns. Is this bloke a danger to the public? I don't think so. When you say 'ammo' do you mean sec 1 ammo or shotgun carts ? If sec 1 then fair enough, its a restricted item, but shotgun shells ? Pretty sure there is no law against keeping them in your boot , out of sight, better they are not there obviously, but if every clay or game shooter had to make sure there were no carts left in clothes or car, they would all get revoked at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltings Posted December 20, 2018 Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) had this issue in the past (first time in the shoot ) a guy having his licence revoked for battering his wife if clay shooting can shoot under supervision if on a clay ground if shooting game must have land owners permission in writing to shoot on said land not game keepers as I understand its really down to the circumstances and firearms officer Edited December 20, 2018 by Saltings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted December 22, 2018 Report Share Posted December 22, 2018 On 19/12/2018 at 08:10, B725 said: A few year's ago we had a break in at home and in the Barbour coat that was stolen there was 6 12 bore cartridges, the police did think about revoking my certificate. 11pm Saturday night they phoned to say concidering what we have been through I could keep it. Seems odd of the police as you don't need a certificate to have shotgun cartridges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted December 22, 2018 Report Share Posted December 22, 2018 27 minutes ago, figgy said: Seems odd of the police as you don't need a certificate to have shotgun cartridges. But did the police who attend the break in know the law or even that there is a difference between section 1&2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobba Posted December 22, 2018 Report Share Posted December 22, 2018 On 18 December 2018 at 20:25, ant1 said: i think you can still use another gun as long you are not a prohibited person.but only in the presence of a certificate holder. I read somewhere, but frustratingly cannot now find it, that if shooting on farmland (not clay pigeon grounds) then you may use another persons gun as long as you are not a prohibited person and provided you are in the presence of a certificate holder who is the occupier of that land for shooting purposes. And the occupier is deemed not to be someone who merely has permission to shoot over that land. is anyone knowledgeable on these matters able to clarify please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted December 22, 2018 Report Share Posted December 22, 2018 I may have been wrongly informed........but I was advised that if you purchase a days shooting you are deemed to be the tennant landowner for that day, consequently a guest without a SGC can accompany you without being a SGC holder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted December 22, 2018 Report Share Posted December 22, 2018 11Sports, athletics and other approved activities. (1)A person carrying a firearm or ammunition belonging to another person holding a certificate under this Act may, without himself holding such a certificate, have in his possession that firearm or ammunition under instructions from, and for the use of, that other person for sporting purposes only [F1; but where the person carrying the firearm or ammunition is under the age of eighteen, this subsection applies only if the other person is of or over the age of eighteen] . (2)A person [F2of or over the age of eighteen] may, without holding a certificate, have a firearm in his possession at an athletic meeting for the purpose of starting races at that meeting. F3(3). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (4)A person conducting or carrying on a miniature rifle range (whether for a rifle club or otherwise) or shooting gallery at which no firearms are used other than air weapons or miniature rifles not exceeding ·23 inch calibre may, without holding a certificate, have in his possession, or purchase or acquire, such miniature rifles and ammunition suitable therefor; and any person may, without holding a certificate, use any such rifle and ammunition at such a range or gallery. F4(5). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (6)A person may, without holding a shot gun certificate, use a shot gun at a time and place approved for shooting at artificial targets by the chief officer of police for the area in which that place is situated. Obviously if you are barred under sec 21 , you cannot do any of this. 21Possession of firearms by persons previously convicted of crime. (1)A person who has been sentenced [F1to custody for life or] to preventive detention, or to imprisonment or to corrective training for a term of three years or more [F1or to youth custody [F2or detention in a young offender institution] for such a term], or who has been sentenced be detained for such a term in a young offenders institution in Scotland, shall not at any time have a firearm or ammunition in his possession. (2)A person who has been sentenced . . . F3 to imprisonment for a term of three months or more but less than three years [F4or to youth custody [F5or detention in a young offender institution] for such a term], or who has been sentenced to be detained for such a term in a detention centre or in a young offenders institution in Scotland [F6or who has been subject to a secure training order [F7or a detention and training order]], shall not at any time before the expiration of the period of five years from the date of his release have a firearm or ammunition in his possession. [F8(2A)For the purposes of subsection (2) above, “the date of his release” means— (a)in the case of a person sentenced to imprisonment with an order under section 47(1) of the Criminal Law Act 1977 (prison sentence partly served and partly suspended), the date on which he completes service of so much of the sentence as was by that order required to be served in prison; (b)in the case of a person who has been subject to a secure training order— (i)the date on which he is released from detention under the order; (ii)the date on which he is released from detention ordered under section 4 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994; or (iii)the date halfway through the total period specified by the court in making the order, whichever is the later.] [F9(c)in the case of a person who has been subject to a detention and training order— (i)the date on which he is released from detention under the order; (ii)the date on which he is released from detention ordered under [F10section 104 of the Powers of Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act 2000]; or (iii)the date of the half-way point of the term of the order, whichever is the later.] F11(d). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . F12(2B). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . [F13(2C)Where— (a)a person has been sentenced to imprisonment for a term of three months or more, and (b)the sentence is suspended under section 189 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003, the person shall not have a firearm or ammunition in his possession at any time during the period of five years beginning with the second day after the date on which the sentence is passed.] (3)A person who— (a)is the holder of a licence issued under section 53 of the M1Children and Young Persons Act 1933 or section 57 of the M2Children and Young Persons (Scotland) Act 1937 (which sections provide for the detention of children and young persons convicted of serious crime, but enable them to be discharged on licence by the Secretary of State); or (b)is subject to a recognizance to keep the peace or to be of good behaviour, a condition of which is that he shall not possess, use or carry a firearm, or is subject to a [F14community order] containing a requirement that he shall not possess, use or carry a firearm; or (c)has, in Scotland, been ordained to find caution a condition of which is that he shall not possess, use or carry a firearm; shall not, at any time during which he holds the licence or is so subject or has been so ordained, have a firearm or ammunition in his possession. [F15(3ZA)In subsection (3)(b) above, “community order” means— (a)a community order within the meaning of Part 12 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003 [F16, or a youth rehabilitation order within the meaning of Part 1 of the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008,] made in England and Wales, or [F17(b)a community payback order under section 227A of the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995 (c.46).] [F18(3A)Where by section 19 of the Firearms Act (Northern Ireland) 1969, or by any other enactment for the time being in force in Northern Ireland and corresponding to this section, a person is prohibited in Northern Ireland from having a firearm or ammunition in his possession, he shall also be so prohibited in Great Britain at any time when to have it in his possession in Northern Ireland would be a contravention of the said section 19 or corresponding enactment]; (4)It is an offence for a person to contravene any of the foregoing provisions of this section. (5)It is an offence for a person to sell or transfer a firearm or ammunition to, or to repair, test or prove a firearm or ammunition for, a person whom he knows or has reasonable ground for believing to be prohibited by this section from having a firearm or ammunition in his possession. (6)A person prohibited under subsection (1), (2) F19... [F20(2C),] [F21(3) or (3A)] of this section from having in his possession a firearm or ammunition may apply to [F22the Crown Court] or, in Scotland, in accordance with Act of Sederunt to the sheriff for a removal of the prohibition; and if the application is granted that prohibition shall not then apply to him. (7)Schedule 3 to this Act shall have effect with respect to the courts with jurisdiction to entertain an application under this section and to the procedure appertaining thereto.] So unless , as part of your revocation , you are barred under sec 21, you can use a shotgun, under supervision/permission . 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