Scully Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, andrewluke said: i think shooters who are not members of basc etc should contribute to a fighting fund but as i am a basc member i already contribute I don’t; why should I? I and many others contributed to BASC for donkies years; they eventually built a ‘media’ centre with it. Since then have we gained more as shooters than we’ve lost? We can debate this on another thread if you wish. I’m a member of NGO. I pay my way. Edited April 24, 2019 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scobydog Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 A lad on Stalking directory has started a petition to have the General Licence reinstated, (sorry can't do links), it is being checked at the moment to see if it meets the petition sites standards, please sign it to make those in power know how we feel when it is up and running. Atb scobydog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, scobydog said: A lad on Stalking directory has started a petition to have the General Licence reinstated, (sorry can't do links), it is being checked at the moment to see if it meets the petition sites standards, please sign it to make those in power know how we feel when it is up and running. Atb scobydog All credit to anyone having a go, but if NE has suspended/revoked the GL on Legal advice (as I understand) no amount of names on a petition will change that! Edited April 24, 2019 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloydi73 Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 20 hours ago, dbarnard said: The specific licences: General licence GL04: To kill or take certain species of wild birds to prevent serious damage or disease General licence GL05: To kill or take certain species of wild birds to preserve public health or public safety General licence GL06: To kill or take certain species of wild birds to conserve wild birds or flora or fauna They do not include licences to protect crops. Think you'll find GL 04 cover crop protection!! You cannot shoot stating crop protection!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 48 minutes ago, arjimlad said: https://markavery.info/2019/04/24/wild-justices-legal-challenge-how-the-case-progressed/ Worth a read as to how they did it. If they're right that NE failed to implement a compliant licensing regime then there's nothing BASC or anyone could have done about this and it should have been up to NE to put it right sooner. We will have to see what the new licensing regime looks like but the timing is abominable for nesting birds and our farmers. Hopefully this will lead to a licensing system which is more robust against challenges like these so we all know where we stand on roosting & stubbles etc. A clue to what any future licence conditions should really include (which is actually an omission with regard to the one just cancelled) in order to be truly effective is contained/explained in the third comment made relating to the quoted link above. And surely, there's no need to spell it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greylag Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 It seems NRW will fall into line and revoke the general license in the near future.They are the last people to stand up for any form of control in the countryside.On previous performances it is already signed sealed and delivered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fen tiger Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 https://twitter.com/BASCnews?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 Maybe I should buy some more ferrets! 😀 Our shooting organisations need to specify to NE exactly what is entailed in the shooting of corvids and pigeons, with the emphasis on shooting as a primary recourse rather than the last resort; all other methods being exhausted first simply isn’t practical. Farmers see pigeons and corvids on their crops and know without doubt that bangers etc simply don’t work. It’s a fact that the only effect shooting has is to deter for that moment; remove the shooter and the birds will return. We’ve all had those days when the birds are still coming in even when we’re setting up etc. The only effect shooting has is to control numbers ( and I doubt numbers are seriously dented by this ) and that’s what it’s all about. It is a fallacy in my opinion that it has anymore effect at protecting crops than any other method, only that it is a lethal deterrent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 (edited) If I understand the present situation right, this is where we are; Natural England (NE) issued Licenses which were poorly written and do not comply with the regulations under which they were issued (in respect of non lethal methods being unsuitable). The Licenses have been challenged by a 3rd party 'pressure group/body' called Wild Justice (WJ) in court - it seems either the court found in their favour, or NE agreed to settle 'out of court' - it is not clear to me from reports which is true. NE has capitulated and revoked the licence with virtually no notice. WJ had expected the ruling to apply from the issue of licenses in January 2020, not immediately (according to one Avery, of their named founders) Some form of replacement licenses are 'in urgent preparation', but no one is saying what these will allow and under what conditions. The timing is unfortunate with ground nesting birds, crops etc at particular risk at this time of year. Now from this - two things seems possible; Natural England have been thoroughly incompetent in drafting the wording of the licenses - leaving themselves open to challenge and loosing (it must have been a high probability that any wording and small print would be closely examined by the various pressure groups) Natural England have chosen to word the licenses poorly to enable a challenge to succeed and enable them to revoke the licenses without having to take blame directly. There are those in NE who are not field sports friendly. Edited April 24, 2019 by JohnfromUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 John I think you have summed it up quite well, we now wait and see what new "General Licences" replace 04, 05 and 06. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 That latest BASC statement made me laugh, essentially BASC stamp their feet to demonstrate their displeasure with NE. So what! To paraphrase and summarise the response from BASC, 'we are so angry with you we might even stop talking to you'. A wondrous amount of good that will do if our largest shooting organisation decides to take the huff with the body that set the rules. Perhaps there should be a whole lot less grandstanding to those that are already angry and actually describe in cogent terms exactly what they're going to do to represent their members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwr Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 (edited) I would also agree but how long will it take to sort out? I’m not sure how many shoot pigeons etc but if everyone applies for individual licences, I can see a major backlog coming.... Edited April 24, 2019 by hwr Typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 Taken from the Wild Justice website…. “Millions of birds are killed each year under the terms of the General Licences” Has anyone seen the evidence to back these claims up, I certainly haven’t, I have asked them to produce the evidence for these claims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 one way to get this sorted is to film crows etc attacking lambs song birds etc etc and send them to Ne post them on bird watcher sites when people see for them selfs what crows do it will cause an uproar. i know a lot will say its hard to get it on film but surely some people have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 It must be a clear legal defeat for NE;it is the surprise/nil notice which feels so wrong.Leigh Day the solicitors are a well known firm;I do hope they do not act for many landowners/shoots/Cartridge manufacturers.....I wonder what impact this will have on world class companies such as Hull/Gamebore..... The General Licence was/is and always has been 'an ***' ..but the impact on farmers yields/song birds especially in April I do think the impact will be quite widespread and for such a 'law' to be revoked at nil notice feels against natural justice in itself...what a mess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 11 minutes ago, old'un said: Taken from the Wild Justice website…. “Millions of birds are killed each year under the terms of the General Licences” Has anyone seen the evidence to back these claims up, I certainly haven’t, I have asked them to produce the evidence for these claims. Wild Justice have just come back to me saying all their data is taken from GWCT and it proves we are illegally killing millions of birds a year under the general licence, I have looked and can see no links to this data on the GWCT website, anyone know where it might be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 20 minutes ago, grrclark said: That latest BASC statement made me laugh, essentially BASC stamp their feet to demonstrate their displeasure with NE. So what! To paraphrase and summarise the response from BASC, 'we are so angry with you we might even stop talking to you'. A wondrous amount of good that will do if our largest shooting organisation decides to take the huff with the body that set the rules. Perhaps there should be a whole lot less grandstanding to those that are already angry and actually describe in cogent terms exactly what they're going to do to represent their members. Careful Mate, we can't sit here and state that BASC just take the money and do nothing as we will be accused of being bitter, twisted people who don't like to waste our money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 13 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said: one way to get this sorted is to film crows etc attacking lambs song birds etc etc and send them to Ne post them on bird watcher sites when people see for them selfs what crows do it will cause an uproar. i know a lot will say its hard to get it on film but surely some people have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 If we were all vegan, we wouldn't need lambs though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 Are there no studies regarding the effectiveness of non lethal methods? /M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 (edited) So that's democracy is it, screw up as many peoples days as possible, break the law and get arrested! Packham is a dangerous idiot and the BBC should disown anyone advocating or condoning breaking the law! Edited April 24, 2019 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davetyler Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 Just out of curiosity i wonder if i stick his head up that dogs rear end would it be called a poopackham or a packhampoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, Nuke said: Are there no studies regarding the effectiveness of non lethal methods? /M https://cereals.ahdb.org.uk/media/1191562/11-15_Woodpigeon_factsheet_web.pdf 27 minutes ago, old'un said: Wild Justice have just come back to me saying all their data is taken from GWCT and it proves we are illegally killing millions of birds a year under the general licence, I have looked and can see no links to this data on the GWCT website, anyone know where it might be? Well done! Now ask them for the reference to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjaferret Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 Post editted. Keep it sensible, it would be a shame to loose this thread, it's too important Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwr Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 7 hours ago, old'un said: I have signed the petition because I am passionate about my shooting and dislike Packham and his agenda. Ditto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.