Independence for Scotland

[button]

The SNP are the greatest party at using half facts to drum up support 

I watched IB on question time, he denied the deficit in Scotland due to the union and cited the reason been the Government bailing out the Banks, what he failed to add was the biggest casualty was a Scottish Bank, and interestingly forgot to add the failed deal with ABN had the backing of their then leader AS, amazing that!

They are in complete denial, and now he is threatening to cause chaos over Brexit , should be worth watching for the entertainment value  the man is deluded

I do not think they are a fair representation of Scottish views or people, they just spread their hatred 

Fact is they couldn't run a bath let alone a country!

 

[Muddy Funker]

12 hours ago, hod said:

Re-locating a fleet of nuclear submarines would prove very problematic in every respect I’d imagine. 

I work within the mod and know lots of people working at Faslane. 

It actually wouldn't be any sort of problem at all according to the Navy brass. 

This sort of event would have been planned for years ago. 

 

[henry d]

Unfortunately NS needs to rally support for a referendum, otherwise she will see a drift into extremist nationalism (Scottish version of UKIP/brexit party) and her job will be at risk. The initial vote will probably not get enough support so she will bang the drum a bit more and the years will rattle on and she will be in a job. If it gets good support then she is on to a winner as she hits the history books. 

Oil and gas is the mantra from most of the indy supporters I know which is why they pumped so much into alternative energy sources believing that they can become a Norway. As has been said defence of the borders and the realm would soon see revenues depleted unless oil prices climb high.

Anyway what do I know, I predicted a small majority...

[matone]

Why don`t  we get a vote to see if we English wish to keep Scotland ? 

[Scully]

I’m of the opinion that they’ve had a democratically held referendum the outcome of which was stay. It obviously wasn’t the result the minority wanted, ( ringing any bells?) and definitely not the one Sturgeon wanted. 
I’m rather indifferent as to whether they go or stay, and if it’s the former then it won’t stop me travelling the short distance to the border for the many trips I take to Scotland each year; I like Scotland. 
If they do go then I hope we make the process as easy and as painless as possible; after what we regarding the EU have gone through, it would be churlish to do otherwise. 

[panoma1]

34 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’m of the opinion that they’ve had a democratically held referendum the outcome of which was stay. It obviously wasn’t the result the minority wanted, ( ringing any bells?) and definitely not the one Sturgeon wanted. 
I’m rather indifferent as to whether they go or stay, and if it’s the former then it won’t stop me travelling the short distance to the border for the many trips I take to Scotland each year; I like Scotland. 
If they do go then I hope we make the process as easy and as painless as possible; after what we regarding the EU have gone through, it would be churlish to do otherwise. 

I think we are yet to see the true colours of the EU!

[Blackpowder]

Pre election the yellow peril had their stall set up two Saturdays running in our small town only 8 miles from the English Border.  Why anyone in their right mind would support  the SNP when Nikky would not hesitate to have Border controls between us and our neighbours is beyond comprehension.   Our largest centre of population, supermarkets, builders merchants , high street shops etc is in Berwick on Tweed- in England over Nikkys  border two miles north of Berwick .  the mind boggles.

 

Blackpowder

[johnphilip]

46 minutes ago, Blackpowder said:

Pre election the yellow peril had their stall set up two Saturdays running in our small town only 8 miles from the English Border.  Why anyone in their right mind would support  the SNP when Nikky would not hesitate to have Border controls between us and our neighbours is beyond comprehension.   Our largest centre of population, supermarkets, builders merchants , high street shops etc is in Berwick on Tweed- in England over Nikkys  border two miles north of Berwick .  the mind boggles.

 

Blackpowder

Exactly  , how would this border  system work   the amount of vehicles and people moving between the two countries  on a daily basis  ,  and what currencies  are we going to use here in Scotland.  And what are we going to do if we pop over the border into England . Are we having to go to the bank to get English money . What about the ferries near me at stranraer . They are dreamers and I strongly  believe they hate the English , or they hate the thought they are been ruled by them . Anything that goes wrong . Blaim Westminster.  It's the easy way out , blaim someone else . I love this country  and it's people.  I hate a divided  country , while the country is decided it will not prosper . 

[Blackpowder]

Yes John living where I do I have as many friends in Northumbria as I have in Scotland  especially where shooting and angling is concerned.

Blackpowder

[ditchman]

i have read this thread and the previous thread before..................i usually have some sort of opinion to make.......but on the Scottish thread i am totally unable to make any comment the reason being is i am at a total loss for words as to why Sturgeon wants to do this........which ever way you look at it, the figures just do not stack up...and the EU would not take on a lame duck...........and the SNP must know this.........The scots are not stupid...the scots ran the British empire with their accounting and enjineers.....so for gods sake why do they want to do this ??............they will become a 3rd world country...........i cant think of any reason why..........cept there is an enormous amount of hate out there which goes back hundreds of years ?

totally unfathomable.....................i just want some sensible SNP person to give me a truthful answer.........

it is a true shame

[Bigbob]

I thought we where independent already we have different laws from the rest of the uk  We need to be licensed to run a snare line now and need a licence for airguns putting more pressure on a reduced number of firearms licencing officers 

[panoma1]

What really bugs me is that the UK Government gave in to the Nationalists demands for a Scottish independence referendum, the result was....the nationalists lost, Scotland voted to stay in the Union! The nationalists will not accept the democratic vote of the Scottish people, So they keep banging the drum, demanding another referendum.......and presumably if they get one, and this goes the way of the last one....they will demand another!.....if that goes the same way...they will demand another! And on, and on, and on ad infinitum, until they get the result they desire!...........if by some quirk of fate, at some time in the future, they eventually win one of these referenda?.........Will they offer the same multiple chances (or even a single one?) for those Scots who wish to rejoin the Union?...........Not a cat in hells chance!

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

3 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

What really bugs me is that the UK Government gave in to the Nationalists demands for a Scottish independence referendum, the result was....the nationalists lost, Scotland voted to stay in the Union! The nationalists will not accept the democratic vote of the Scottish people, So they keep banging the drum, demanding another referendum.......and presumably if they get one, and this goes the way of the last one....they will demand another!.....if that goes the same way...they will demand another! And on, and on, and on ad infinitum, until they get the result they desire!...........if by some quirk of fate, at some time in the future, they eventually win one of these referenda?.........Will they offer the same multiple chances (or even a single one?) for those Scots who wish to rejoin the Union?...........Not a cat in hells chance!

 

Much the same as wanting a second referendum on our membership of the EU!

[Gordon R]

ditchman - I have the same concerns. I cannot comprehend what Scotland have to gain. They are subsidised by England and would lose that. They can't run their hospitals and schools properly, but want people to believe they could run everything else. When the UK voted to leave the EU, Remainers claimed it was not possible because Northern Ireland and Eire had a land border. Are the SNP going to build a canal or wall to separate the two countries. Or has that argument disappeared when it suits.

I am totally unclear just what the SNP hope to achieve. It would serve them right if Boris abolished all these assemblies and brought everything back to Westminster.

In Boris Johnson's shoes I would tell the SNP that there is no debate to be had and refuse point blank to discuss it. They can moan and bluster all they want - it seems to be all they have - but they cannot do a thing about it.

[panoma1]

10 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

ditchman - I have the same concerns. I cannot comprehend what Scotland have to gain. They are subsidised by England and would lose that. They can't run their hospitals and schools properly, but want people to believe they could run everything else. When the UK voted to leave the EU, Remainers claimed it was not possible because Northern Ireland and Eire had a land border. Are the SNP going to build a canal or wall to separate the two countries. Or has that argument disappeared when it suits.

I am totally unclear just what the SNP hope to achieve. It would serve them right if Boris abolished all these assemblies and brought everything back to Westminster.

In Boris Johnson's shoes I would tell the SNP that there is no debate to be had and refuse point blank to discuss it. They can moan and bluster all they want - it seems to be all they have - but they cannot do a thing about it.

I agree with this, but for Boris to do so, it would achieve what the Nationalists want.......to turn the Unionists in Scotland against the Westminster government, to sow division, and use it as propaganda to “rally the clans” under a Nationalist Scotland flag!......

Deja vu? A re-run of Culloden?

[old'un]

I wonder if she has any ‘Wallace’ in her blood line?

[Gordon R]

Quote

I agree with this, but for Boris to do so, it would achieve what the Nationalists want.......to turn the Unionists in Scotland against the Westminster government, to sow division, and use it as propaganda to “rally the clans” under a Nationalist Scotland flag!......

I cannot disagree with that and I would not like it to happen. Boris is building bridges, not fences. It's a shame the SNP can't do the same. There is nothing wrong with being proud of being Scottish - they have a lot to be proud of, but pride should not be turned into hatred of the English.

[button]

What has Scotland to gain? Put simply....absolutely nothing! It is an ill concieved idea, and the SNP live in cloud cuckoo land

[guzzicat]

16 minutes ago, old'un said:

I wonder if she has any ‘Wallace’ in her blood line?

Grommit more likely!🤭

[TIGHTCHOKE]

59 minutes ago, old'un said:

I wonder if she has any ‘Wallace’ in her blood line?

 

42 minutes ago, guzzicat said:

Grommit more likely!🤭

Brilliant retort!

[London Best]

She needs a grommet in her gob!

[Raja Clavata]

7 hours ago, Scully said:

I’m of the opinion that they’ve had a democratically held referendum the outcome of which was stay. It obviously wasn’t the result the minority wanted, ( ringing any bells?) and definitely not the one Sturgeon wanted. 

If the 2016 referendum returned a remain vote and then the EU tried to use that as an excuse to get us to switch to the Euro then I would have been advocating a second vote on the staying in the EU. Besides that the Brexit Party would have continued campaigning to leave.

So, since Brexit is a significant event that will occur after the Scottish Indy referendum then I really don't see how anyone advocating democracy would want to deny the Scots a second vote sometime soon. The goal posts have also changed a bit in terms of the details of the Indy vote as presumably a leave vote now would mean they switch to the Euro.

[panoma1]

4 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

If the 2016 referendum returned a remain vote and then the EU tried to use that as an excuse to get us to switch to the Euro then I would have been advocating a second vote on the staying in the EU. Besides that the Brexit Party would have continued campaigning to leave.

So, since Brexit is a significant event that will occur after the Scottish Indy referendum then I really don't see how anyone advocating democracy would want to deny the Scots a second vote sometime soon. The goal posts have also changed a bit in terms of the details of the Indy vote as presumably a leave vote now would mean they switch to the Euro.

If the UK had voted to remain in the EU, we/you wouldn’t have a say in it! We would have to accept everything they wanted to throw at us....including joining the Euro!........

[Raja Clavata]

13 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

If the UK had voted to remain in the EU, we/you wouldn’t have a say in it! We would have to accept everything they wanted to throw at us....including joining the Euro!........

I don't believe that to be the case but anyway was using it as an analogy, no need to continue the debate on Brexit and specifically not the EU.

 But choices have consequences and one of the consequences of Brexit is what we are seeing now in Scotland. 

I hope Scotland doesn't vote for UK independence but I'd prefer them to just be given the choice sooner rather than later and allow us all to get on with the things that should really matter to us.

[matone]

4 hours ago, Gordon R said:

ditchman - I have the same concerns. I cannot comprehend what Scotland have to gain. They are subsidised by England and would lose that. They can't run their hospitals and schools properly, but want people to believe they could run everything else. When the UK voted to leave the EU, Remainers claimed it was not possible because Northern Ireland and Eire had a land border. Are the SNP going to build a canal or wall to separate the two countries. Or has that argument disappeared when it suits.

I am totally unclear just what the SNP hope to achieve. It would serve them right if Boris abolished all these assemblies and brought everything back to Westminster.

In Boris Johnson's shoes I would tell the SNP that there is no debate to be had and refuse point blank to discuss it. They can moan and bluster all they want - it seems to be all they have - but they cannot do a thing about it.

I think the SNP version of `independence` will expect large handouts from English coffers......everything you say is spot on imho.