Smart Meters

[Old Boggy]

Firstly, I apologise if this has been raised before.

Having been constantly reminded via post and emails by my electricity provider that they wish to install 'free of charge' a smart meter in my property, I just wonder how this is going to save energy. There has been a lot of negative press concerning these meters and being sceptical can only assume that their installation, presumably being partly government subsidised, merely saves the energy company money in reading meters. I also take offence at the recent advertisement where children 'thank' us for installing these meters to help 'save the planet'. I know that this particular issue has been voiced many times on here referring to Greta Thunberg and her inane and scripted ramblings.

Anyway, apart from my reluctance to have one fitted, does anyone on here have one and find them at all useful, as I think that I am more than capable of reading my meter and knowing which electrical appliance uses more energy etc.etc. Am I being too cynical ?

Thanks in advance for any useful advice.

OB

[panoma1]

I won’t have one unless forced to.....I believe it’s just another “big brother/control” type move, and ultimately not to our benefit....otherwise why would they give em out for “free”

“No such thing as a free lunch”

[Newbie to this]

31 minutes ago, Old Boggy said:

merely saves the energy company money in reading meters.

You have answered the question yourself, they in no way reduce your energy consumption. They give you a live reading of what you are using and the cost. But more importantly for the supplier, they remove the need to read the meter as they can access the smart meter remotely.

Edited December 30, 2019 by Newbie to this

[TIGHTCHOKE]

OB you have a PM.

[Stonepark]

If you can read a normal meter and do basic sums, smart meters offer no advantage to the normal person.

 

For the electric company they allow a number of advantages as follows;-

1)Remote Disconnection

2)Remote Meter Reading

3)30 minute Variable Charging which the industry is being pushed towards.

4)move to load factor charging (LED  would appear to use twice as much as they actually do for instance)

5) Import measuring only (need a second meter to export)

6)still no full operability between installing companies, installing a new meter generates a cash flow.

 

Edited December 30, 2019 by Stonepark

[JJsDad]

Hi Boggy.

My understanding is that the only way you will save money is if you monitor the `usage-display` that the company provides and turn off unwanted lights etc; having a smart meter does not to the best of my knowledge reduce the ammount of energy used. It just shows what you are using in real time. The negative press generally refers to the Mk 1 version not the Mk 2 now being fitted. I like you have been regularly pestered over the last 6 months or so by emails from my supplier saying they were in the area and urging me to make an appointment to have one fitted.

As a result of a phone call from my supplier in early December I finally bit the bullet and arrangement to have one fitted. During the discussion about the installation I explained that like many houses built in the 60s, my meter was in a rather small cupboard beneath the stairs with fairly limited access. This was poo-poo`d by the rep and I was told this was not a problem as their fitters were highly skilled in working in cramped conditions.

I was therefore mildly amused when on the day a 6ft 2in fitter turned up with all his kit and the new meter, took one look at the access and said it couldnt be fitted. He took a number of happy snaps to pass onto his boss and told me the only way it could be done is lift 4 or 5 treads from the stairs to allow access. However, as the cost of this is down to the supplier, he advised that it wont get done. So the boast that all houses will have these devices within the next 4 or 5 years is all pie-in-the-sky. There are 30 or 40 identical design houses on our little patch, all of which presumably cannot economically be fitted with this new wonder meter.

[Scully]

I won’t install one out of principal. I  have read so much regarding these on social media, where the replies from the provider to a critical and sceptical audience are anything but logical or convincing. 

[strimmer_13]

I told them no chance. Its no help with my mental gf who turns every plug off in the house because she saw it on a youtube vid. Apparently just leaving the kettle plugged in but not running uses electric. Very very annoying, early in the morning waiting for the kettle to boil then realising its switched off. She does it to everything. Shed be an absolute nightmare if she could see what the cost was of what stuff we use. 

[ph5172]

We had one fitted as part of unlocking (at the time) a very good deal on both gas and electricity. 
 

the fitter gave us the ‘readout box’ and some batteries as he said you will be bored of it by the time they run out and the readout is useless so no point in plugging it in! - he bc was of course correct and the feedback of data was rubbish - it sums up the quality when you could buy a replacement for £2 odd! 
 

anyhow fast forward and it’s not compatible with any other provider and it fails to display the meter readings so it’s out to the box to push the smallest keypad invented and to try and read the most inaccessible lcd display - I have to set my phone to record and push the keypad all in about 5 seconds. 
 

I have seen the British Gas readout unit and it actually looks like it probably provides some valuable feedback. 
 

Did ours change our usage - no as the feedback on the unit was that poor I couldn’t be bothered with it. It also said our usage was ‘high’ with just bare minimum running so I don’t know how the read out was set.  
 

as a side out when we look after next door when they are on holiday we always turn on the kettle and tumble dryer for a laugh and send him a picture of the meter well into the red and his hourly cost as astronomical - obviously only for the few seconds the picture is taken. It’s become a long standing joke now. 

[Old Boggy]

18 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

OB you have a PM.

PM replied to, many thanks.

OB

9 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

Hi Boggy.

My understanding is that the only way you will save money is if you monitor the `usage-display` that the company provides and turn off unwanted lights etc; having a smart meter does not to the best of my knowledge reduce the ammount of energy used. It just shows what you are using in real time. The negative press generally refers to the Mk 1 version not the Mk 2 now being fitted. I like you have been regularly pestered over the last 6 months or so by emails from my supplier saying they were in the area and urging me to make an appointment to have one fitted.

As a result of a phone call from my supplier in early December I finally bit the bullet and arrangement to have one fitted. During the discussion about the installation I explained that like many houses built in the 60s, my meter was in a rather small cupboard beneath the stairs with fairly limited access. This was poo-poo`d by the rep and I was told this was not a problem as their fitters were highly skilled in working in cramped conditions.

I was therefore mildly amused when on the day a 6ft 2in fitter turned up with all his kit and the new meter, took one look at the access and said it couldnt be fitted. He took a number of happy snaps to pass onto his boss and told me the only way it could be done is lift 4 or 5 treads from the stairs to allow access. However, as the cost of this is down to the supplier, he advised that it wont get done. So the boast that all houses will have these devices within the next 4 or 5 years is all pie-in-the-sky. There are 30 or 40 identical design houses on our little patch, all of which presumably cannot economically be fitted with this new wonder meter.

I had similar regards access when the water company wished to install a water meter (which I wanted Incidently as being only two of us, I could foresee a potential saving). Initially was told no problem until the guy (subcontracted out) came along and obviously whilst not impossible, it couldn't be done within his 'price' for the work. Annoying really as I could have installed it quite easily with a bit of pipe work alteration myself. 

 

20 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

If you can read a normal meter and do basic sums, smart meters offer no advantage to the normal person.

 

For the electric company they allow a number of advantages as follows;-

1)Remote Disconnection

2)Remote Meter Reading

3)30 minute Variable Charging which the industry is being pushed towards.

4)move to load factor charging (LED  would appear to use twice as much as they actually do for instance)

5) Import measuring only (need a second meter to export)

6)still no full operability between installing companies, installing a new meter generates a cash flow.

 

Yes I suspected that it would offer no real advantage as I can read the meter and easily work out what my bill should be. Thanks for your reply.

Thanks for all your replies. I think that I will remain a Luddite for as long as possible.

OB

 

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, there all the same these Electric/Gas/Water companies, think they know better than us, this is true, my son was sent a recent  bill  from Thames Water for water he has not used yet !!!!!!, and i have just had a letter of Court Action threat from same for a bill i paid in mid November, now they want proof of payment, !!!!!

[Old Boggy]

8 minutes ago, strimmer_13 said:

I told them no chance. Its no help with my mental gf who turns every plug off in the house because she saw it on a youtube vid. Apparently just leaving the kettle plugged in but not running uses electric. Very very annoying, early in the morning waiting for the kettle to boil then realising its switched off. She does it to everything. Shed be an absolute nightmare if she could see what the cost was of what stuff we use. 

Oh dear Strimmer_13, you've opened up a can of worms for me here. My wife, bless her, has OCD and not only turns off every switch in the house (bar the TV & PC which she's forbidden to touch) but when we go out she has to check three times that all doors are locked and everything is switched off. If we go away just for a couple of days, the fridge is emptied of perishables and switched off (fire hazard !) Even my computer chair is moved a foot away from the little blue light on the BT smart box thingy. Again fire hazard !!! She used to be an NHS nurse and was by all accounts a bloody nightmare to work with, always complaining about potential fire and trip hazards in the clinics that she worked in. I love her to bits, but it can be very frustrating at times. Her favourite saying is 'to be sure, to be sure'. I'm convinced that if we were very much younger and 'fertile', she would get me to use three condoms . 

OB

[strimmer_13]

17 minutes ago, Old Boggy said:

Oh dear Strimmer_13, you've opened up a can of worms for me here. My wife, bless her, has OCD and not only turns off every switch in the house (bar the TV & PC which she's forbidden to touch) but when we go out she has to check three times that all doors are locked and everything is switched off. If we go away just for a couple of days, the fridge is emptied of perishables and switched off (fire hazard !) Even my computer chair is moved a foot away from the little blue light on the BT smart box thingy. Again fire hazard !!! She used to be an NHS nurse and was by all accounts a bloody nightmare to work with, always complaining about potential fire and trip hazards in the clinics that she worked in. I love her to bits, but it can be very frustrating at times. Her favourite saying is 'to be sure, to be sure'. I'm convinced that if we were very much younger and 'fertile', she would get me to use three condoms . 

OB

My deepest sympathy, ive often wondered if I should of used condoms but over her head, to be sure 😂

[panoma1]

“To be sure, to be sure” is she Irish OB? Lol! 
 

I’ll get me coat! 

[Old Boggy]

55 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

“To be sure, to be sure” is she Irish OB? Lol! 
 

I’ll get me coat! 

Not Irish. I think that she`s been to Holland twice though as she often speaks double Dutch 

[Vince Green]

2 hours ago, Old Boggy said:

Oh dear Strimmer_13, you've opened up a can of worms for me here. My wife, bless her, has OCD and not only turns off every switch in the house (bar the TV & PC which she's forbidden to touch) but when we go out she has to check three times that all doors are locked and everything is switched off. If we go away just for a couple of days, the fridge is emptied of perishables and switched off (fire hazard !) Even my computer chair is moved a foot away from the little blue light on the BT smart box thingy. Again fire hazard !!! She used to be an NHS nurse and was by all accounts a bloody nightmare to work with, always complaining about potential fire and trip hazards in the clinics that she worked in. I love her to bits, but it can be very frustrating at times. Her favourite saying is 'to be sure, to be sure'. I'm convinced that if we were very much younger and 'fertile', she would get me to use three condoms . 

OB

The NHS safety courses are way OTT, my stepdaughter was told to go home and throw out all the extension leads and plug adapters because they are so unbelievably dangerous and are the cause of umpteen fire deaths every year. It took us a while to convince her that if they really were dangerous shops wouldn't be allowed to sell them and besides fuses are there to prevent overloading 

[Konnie]

I work on a council contract which requires some electrical works, we have to get that company to come unlock meter seal, on investigation if you wish to change supplier you may require to pay for new (different) meter 

[Diver One]

You cannot be made to have one fitted.  Even if it is part of your 'energy deal.  It's all to do with the ESQR regs

 

best way to save energy?........turn stuff off, end of. The only way the meter can do this.....it can't. 

and wait until first one is hacked/metering bills lost....Oh look. Old Farrier is never in on a Wednesday night betweenness 1800-2230 as he uses little or no energy then. I'll,let my mate know and he can break in

 

you think it wont/can't happen!     Can't even keep a list of ( manly) undeserving Honours lost recipients data secure

[Vince Green]

The other thing is they fit it "free" but may well be charging you a rental fee built into your standing charges 

[oowee]

I used to do some work on these as part of smart grid trials with Western Power. 

Ultimately the meters will save money by reducing meter read costs and for some they like to play with the technlogy. The older the meter you have the more likely it is to read in your favour so for now I would keep the meter I have. Many of the smart meters being installed were of a type now recognised as not so smart so will have to be replaced. The cost of the meters is paid for from the green tax levied on your supply, so you are already paying for it. 

The ultimate purpose of the meters is to facilitate smart electricity supply.  This is likely to be an infinitely variable tariff with ultra high peak costs and ultra low off peak. A smart meter will allow appliances (washing machines, freezers) to be switched off at ultra high peaks by the energy supplier saving you cash and in turn potentially reducing the number of new power stations being built. It will also (in theory) allow power to be put into the grid at the user end (solar, wind and car battery) and for that to be used rather than burnt off as heat. 

Edited December 30, 2019 by oowee

[Stimo22]

My son had the fitter come to fit a meter and fitted it ok on electric meter but said that his earth strap was in the way on the gas meter. So my son would have to get an electrician in to sort it so they could come back to finish the fitting and my son would have to pay for the electrician. So they are not free of there is a problem with any access

[manthing]

We don't even have a meter, never mind a smart meter. 

 

[Ttfjlc]

I have been fitting meters for over a decade now so kinda know what I'm doing, one thing that clearly stands out is the older generation are far more careful and considerate when it comes to energy consumption. Trust me when I say it's quite amazing just how many folk out there who are completely oblivious to what things cost and how they work, during a monitor demo the most common thing I hear is, "oh, didn't realise it used that much." 

Are smart meters compulsory? No

Are they free? No, paid for via bills

Meter readers out of a job? 

A: Meters are legally required to be checked once every 2 years, including smart meters. 

B: Not everyone wants a smart meter so readers are pretty safe for a few years. 

Does the monitor/SED/IHD save you money? Well now, on my demos I simply point out it will make you fully aware of where the money is going, depending on the customer's lifestyle they may save nothing or save a small fortune. 

I really must stress this, if you have an older property please be aware that rules do change so therefore if you have a long suffering fitter like me turn up and tell you something isn't right, don't think we're trying to sell you something with a scare story and remember we're audited hence would get a telling off for not informing you. 

[Old farrier]

5 hours ago, Diver One said:

You cannot be made to have one fitted.  Even if it is part of your 'energy deal.  It's all to do with the ESQR regs

 

best way to save energy?........turn stuff off, end of. The only way the meter can do this.....it can't. 

and wait until first one is hacked/metering bills lost....Oh look. Old Farrier is never in on a Wednesday night betweenness 1800-2230 as he uses little or no energy then. I'll,let my mate know and he can break in

 

you think it wont/can't happen!     Can't even keep a list of ( manly) undeserving Honours lost recipients data secure

I am in I just use the candle and oil lamp 

I saved energy for one night a week 😂😊

[SpringDon]

I actually wanted one to monitor usage and generation.  In house display is nice but doesn’t talk to the meter direct but goes via it to the data centre. Hasn’t worked since fitting and reading the supplier’s forum seems to indicate that nearly a third don’t work (I.e can’t be read remotely). 
The whole project is another expensive failure.