Cummings in the soup?

[Yellow Bear]

4 minutes ago, oowee said:

Everything from the lack of PPE, the late and unclear lock down, the lack of ventilators, lack of oxygeon, the lack of NHS capacity and the poor economic response can be laid at their door.

Here speaks a typical example of an(ex) civil servant - if it goes well we did it well,  if they foul up it is the governments fault.  Civil servants NEVER get it wrong🤥😂

[JohnfromUK]

8 minutes ago, oowee said:

The civil service advise the Govt who then task them to carry out actions.

....... and I don't believe we know what advice was given, what tasks where then placed on whom and with what timescales. 

I think in general - the economic response has been very well received by many and praised for it's swiftness.  There will always be critics, but there are many supporters of what the chancellor has done

[clangerman]

so far we have blamed just about everyone and everything bar the culprits dummings and doris the buck does not stop at the cleaner the press brexit or anyone else it stops at the TOP sometimes i swear this is the twilight zone 

[Scully]

2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

Correct - until 2021

Ah well, nevermind. 

[oowee]

7 minutes ago, clangerman said:

so far we have blamed just about everyone and everything bar the culprits dummings and doris the buck does not stop at the cleaner the press brexit or anyone else it stops at the TOP sometimes i swear this is the twilight zone 

^^^^^ This. 

 

17 minutes ago, AVB said:

Lack of PPE - every country has struggled. Even Germany. 
late Lockdown - where we were in respect of the global spread we actually locked down earlier than Italy and Spain. 
lack of ventilators - we never needed the ventilators and so there was no shortage. 
lack of NHS capacity - there was no lack of capacity. We never got overrun. 
poor economic response - what should we have done differently? What countries have done more than the UK? 

1. Why?

2. Since when have we measure the UK against also rans? Look at the game in Liverpool and the Cheltenham races both confirmed sources of covid where a direct result of late intervention from a weak government.

3. Id that were the case why the sudden panic to make some?

4. There is so little capacity that we built the nightingales just in case. Pre prep would have had that capital as mainstream NHS resource.

5. Prepared it better. Not made it so generous that people were furloughed unnecessarily.

 

[Scully]

18 minutes ago, AVB said:

Lack of PPE - every country has struggled. Even Germany. 
late Lockdown - where we were in respect of the global spread we actually locked down earlier than Italy and Spain. 
lack of ventilators - we never needed the ventilators and so there was no shortage. 
lack of NHS capacity - there was no lack of capacity. We never got overrun. 
poor economic response - what should we have done differently? What countries have done more than the UK? 

Agreed. I’ve no doubt that if things had gone worse then critics would be up in arms claiming that extra makeshift hospitals should have been commissioned. Oh, hang on a minute, they were. 

[AVB]

8 minutes ago, oowee said:

^^^^^ This. 

 

1. Why?

2. Since when have we measure the UK against also rans? Look at the game in Liverpool and the Cheltenham races both confirmed sources of covid where a direct result of late intervention from a weak government.

3. Id that were the case why the sudden panic to make some?

4. There is so little capacity that we built the nightingales just in case. Pre prep would have had that capital as mainstream NHS resource.

5. Prepared it better. Not made it so generous that people were furloughed unnecessarily.

 

1.  If you know the answer then you tell me. 
2. the scientists acknowledged that if you lock down too early then you end up with people breaking the lockdown early and the end result is worse. 
3. in case they were needed. They weren’t. 
4. so we build massive over capacity that we can’t afford just to let it sit idle. Great socialist thinking. 
5. I concede on that one that we could have done less but it’s a very difficult balancing act. There is no doubt that without the furlough scheme many employers would have immediately made people redundant. 
 

 

[TRINITY]

I accept the views of some and their critiscm of the government. However we have a system where we have a government to run the country, so if this lot are rubbish and dont have a clue, can someone suggest who we should put in their place.

The only people I can think of is her majesty's opposition. I seem to remember they were being run by a character with no credibility whatsoever and were in a stupidly long and protracted process of replacing the clown. When the hard decisions were being taken , they were no where to be seen or heard. No constructive advice,absolutely nothing. When starmer eventually got the gig he did try and add something to the discussion but by then all the hard choices had already been made. 

So you can blame the government as much as you like but without a credible opposition there will never be checks and balance. 

Edited May 30, 2020 by TRINITY

[oowee]

34 minutes ago, TRINITY said:

I accept the views of some and their critiscm of the government. However we have a system where we have a government to run the country, so if this lot are rubbish and dont have a clue, can someone suggest who we should put in their place.

The only people I can think of is her majesty's opposition. I seem to remember they were being run by a character with no credibility whatsoever and were in a stupidly long and protracted process of replacing the clown. When the hard decisions were being taken , they were no where to be seen or heard. No constructive advice,absolutely nothing. When starmer eventually got the gig he did try and add something to the discussion but by then all the hard choices had already been made. 

So you can blame the government as much as you like but without a credible opposition there will never be checks and balance. 

There must be somewhere a decent Tory brain. Blair would have been a far better proposition leading the Tories rather than this ....wit. 

[Vince Green]

I am amazed that all these keyboard warriors are so quick to blame the Government for the failures of the NHS.

[Raja Clavata]

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Let me guess you hate him too ? 😏

Nothing more to say , the 'debacle' is over , the dark lord and his minion still sit on the throne of chaos,  and further attempts to use the gutter media to disrupt OUR governments handling of this crisis , and the troubles to come, will further expose the vitriol and treachery, of what is simply , the losing side.

If we were at war , it would be called sedition , an offence punishable by death.

But in these snowflake times , it will no doubt get approving nods and hearty handshakes from the champagne swilling lefties at their soirees.

Disgraceful behaviour .

You really have excelled yourself there, have you been on the sauce?

1 hour ago, TRINITY said:

I accept the views of some and their critiscm of the government. However we have a system where we have a government to run the country, so if this lot are rubbish and dont have a clue, can someone suggest who we should put in their place.

The only people I can think of is her majesty's opposition. I seem to remember they were being run by a character with no credibility whatsoever and were in a stupidly long and protracted process of replacing the clown. When the hard decisions were being taken , they were no where to be seen or heard. No constructive advice,absolutely nothing. When starmer eventually got the gig he did try and add something to the discussion but by then all the hard choices had already been made. 

So you can blame the government as much as you like but without a credible opposition there will never be checks and balance. 

I absolutely agree with this.

[Zapp]

Second (and final) request for the squabbling to stop before the thread gets locked.

[panoma1]

I read a different truth is emerging about Cummingsgate........apparently one geezer who reported Cummings has been reported as breaking lockdown himself by travelling from Durham to pick his daughter up in the South of England, and another “witness” has confessed he made up a sighting of Cummings “as a joke”....there is also growing evidence that influential remainers have been fanning the flames of this non story for political reasons? Can you believe that? 😆 

Hopefully the real truth will emerge eventually? It may turn out that politically stimulated mob rule, if it had succeeded, could have executed a man for a trifling misdemeanour?

Edited May 31, 2020 by panoma1

[Rewulf]

12 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

You really have excelled yourself there, have you been on the sauce?

So it's not disgraceful behaviour? 

OK.. 

Here's another aspect of the same view. 

https://briefingsforbritain.co.uk/remainers-revenge-the-hounding-of-dominic-cummings/

[JohnfromUK]

6 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

I read a different truth is emerging about Cummingsgate

I think the real issue here is that as a supposed skilled political player, Cummings was 'very unwise' to put himself in a position where this could happen.

I accept no law broken, reasonable care exercised, no one put at risk - and I have not (on those grounds) been one calling for him to go.  I am however both disappointed and surprised that he was sufficiently unwise (or just plain stupid) enough to allow himself to be used as a tool to discredit the Government and Prime Minister.  He must know that the lefty press are out to seize on any possible ammunition to discredit him.  This is made more urgent because the left have had no 'good news' from their own side to trumpet about - and now a leader with all the charisma of a damp dish cloth.

[chesterse]

Mental health is a high profile topic at the moment especially during lockdown. I am absolutely appalled at the vitriolic attack on Mr Cummings by the remoaners and champagne socialist media. What do they think it is doing to his metal health? I doubt if they care.

The man is a human being after all and as far as I see it was through his job trying to do his best for the Country and also look after his family.

A vicious verbal and written assault of this type is not justified and out of all proportion.

[Bobba]

16 hours ago, Vince Green said:

I am amazed that all these keyboard warriors are so quick to blame the Government for the failures of the NHS.

Hopefully you did not intend to include health care professional Doctors, Nurses etc etc in your sweeping statement "for the failures of the NHS"?

My view (for what it's worth) is failures by Public Health England. Who proudly boast as one of its responsibilities "preparing for and responding to public health emergencies"..............!

[JohnfromUK]

31 minutes ago, chesterse said:

I am absolutely appalled at the vitriolic attack on Mr Cummings by the remoaners and champagne socialist media.

The politics of the 'hard' left has always been fuelled by hate; remember the various riots around strikes, the anti Semitism, the anti capitalism, the anti austerity.  It is all 'anti' this, that, the other.  Hate is a strong emotion that can be tapped into and exploited to make people feel unified (such as against 'oppressors') - it gains a kind of fervent following amongst certain people.  Something slightly related is happening in the USA right now where justified and serious concern over a wrongful death has been seized on by the 'hate mob' and turned into violence, looting and destruction.

The broader left has mostly largely 'tolerated' the 'hard' left - because without their support they have never had a chance at office.  yes, they have purged a few like Derek Hatton, George Galloway, Ken Livingstone etc., but these are often quietly let back in after the dust has settled.

It is a problem that will never be far below the surface, and is always looking for opportunities to exploit, aggravate and attack by its hate, not opportunities to defuse and calm situations, make amends and learn lessons.

[panoma1]

1 hour ago, Bobba said:

Hopefully you did not intend to include health care professional Doctors, Nurses etc etc in your sweeping statement "for the failures of the NHS"?

My view (for what it's worth) is failures by Public Health England. Who proudly boast as one of its responsibilities "preparing for and responding to public health emergencies"..............!

I imagine no one would criticise the workers within the NHS........In my opinion, any failures can be laid fairly and squarely on the shoulders of those who's responsibility is to run the NHS........

What was a wartime popular saying? “Lions led by Donkeys” 

[Vince Green]

2 hours ago, Bobba said:

Hopefully you did not intend to include health care professional Doctors, Nurses etc etc in your sweeping statement "for the failures of the NHS"?

My view (for what it's worth) is failures by Public Health England. Who proudly boast as one of its responsibilities "preparing for and responding to public health emergencies"..............!

No I am not including the professionals at the coal face in my comments, There were multiple failings from a lack of preparedness to sourcing essencial supplies from abroad allowing orders to be cancelled.

Just to give a parallel example, the American military requires everything they buy to be made in the USA, not just planes and tanks or rifles and ammo. That goes right down all the components used within the planes and vehicles etc. And all the way down to paper clips and toilet paper everything has to be made entirely within the US from materials produced in the US.

Its part of their defence procurement policy and its in place for a reason. You can see a similar logic for the NHS when it sources PPE only being allowed to buy from within the UK

[Vince Green]

7 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

I think the real issue here is that as a supposed skilled political player, Cummings was 'very unwise' to put himself in a position where this could happen.

I accept no law broken, reasonable care exercised, no one put at risk - and I have not (on those grounds) been one calling for him to go.  I am however both disappointed and surprised that he was sufficiently unwise (or just plain stupid) enough to allow himself to be used as a tool to discredit the Government and Prime Minister.  He must know that the lefty press are out to seize on any possible ammunition to discredit him.  This is made more urgent because the left have had no 'good news' from their own side to trumpet about - and now a leader with all the charisma of a damp dish cloth.

This ^^^ it was definitely an own goal 

[martyn2233]

EYE WITLESS 

Dominic Cummings ‘witness’ admits he made up sighting as a ‘joke’ as another accused of breaking lockdown himself

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11748383/dominic-cummings-witnesses-lockdown/

[Gordon R]

Quote

I think the real issue here is that as a supposed skilled political player, Cummings was 'very unwise' to put himself in a position where this could happen.

The whole debacle in a nutshell.

The man who reported him seems to have done worse, but thinks it was fine. What a surprise. Will the press camp outside his home and give him a taste of what Cummings has been through? I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but if pushed, he would be the head of the queue.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just another shocking part of this whole stupid episode. 

 

Not one person has come out of this looking good. Press/media, Cummings, self appointed commentators and supposed witnesses.

[lancer425]

 Not one for bible quotes but i remembered this from school and thought it very apt.

" persecutors shall stumble, and they shall not prevail: they shall be greatly ashamed; for they shall not prosper: their everlasting confusion shall never be forgotten. "