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Pigeons compared to clays


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The best training for live birds I ever had, was going to a compact sporting layout with a dozen or so different targets.

Wear ear defenders that completely cut out external noise, so you can’t hear which traps are launching and get a mate to launch the clays entirely randomly, so you have to really concentrate.

Makes for much more ‘snap’ intuitive shooting IMO

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1 hour ago, humperdingle said:

The best training for live birds I ever had, was going to a compact sporting layout with a dozen or so different targets.

Wear ear defenders that completely cut out external noise, so you can’t hear which traps are launching and get a mate to launch the clays entirely randomly, so you have to really concentrate.

Makes for much more ‘snap’ intuitive shooting IMO

👍

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8 hours ago, Jacko3275 said:

👍

We have all chewed some fat on this subject as it very technical yet simple.

May I add to humperdingle and say your right and it takes a lot of the other post together because when you swing quickly sanp shooting you automatically follow through.

An old guy once told me it's like using a water hose in your garden to water the flowers and the little flick you can use to  make the water go further without doing anything else ( it's a visual thing but it sometimes works if you can see it in your mind )

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11 hours ago, Walker570 said:

How many pigeons at 50yrds do you wound but don't realise it.  A clay is inanimate but the aim should be to cleanly kill the quarry species whatever it is.

Nobody said they were shooting pigeons at 50 yards, read the post! 

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Well looks like both UltraStu and myself miss read however the initoial opening did refer to shooting clays at 50yrs and I believe we both got the impression that the shooter was wanting to hit live birds out there.  I still stand by my comment regarding shooting at that distance.

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I think the point is that just because the op thinks he is shooting at birds about 40 yds up .they maybe further around 50 or more .

Its extremely hard to judge the range of a bird straight up in the air .how often have you shot a crossing bird that drops straight down .and then paced it out to find its much further than you thought .

Crows some how always appear closer than they are .must be the big black shape .

I'm with walker on this .

On 22/11/2020 at 20:47, martinj said:

I was at a clay shoot recently and was breaking fast crossers at about 50 yards, hitting more than I missed but can I do that with pigeons? I can not.

 

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On 24/11/2020 at 10:03, lakeside1000 said:

Just as an after though I would never use 7's on pigeons as I don't believe they hold enough pattern or energy even at 30 yards, many will disagree but after 50 years of shooting that's my experience. 


I think I spent 2-3 seasons using 32g 5 (Black Gold) and 30g 6’s (Clear pigeon) shooting pigeons and game birds and found that I was getting a LOT of runners. Birds with broken wings and knocked down but very much still alive. 
 

This year I have shot 28g 7’s on partridge and pheasant and have never had so many birds killed stone dead in the air. 
 

Why a pigeon for some reason should be tougher than a large cock pheasant I don’t know. 
 

What I do know is, if you put the bird in the pattern, they are going down hard! 

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17 hours ago, Walker570 said:

Well looks like both UltraStu and myself miss read however the initoial opening did refer to shooting clays at 50yrs and I believe we both got the impression that the shooter was wanting to hit live birds out there.  I still stand by my comment regarding shooting at that distance.

Whatever! and I don't see what that has to do with this post. I was asking for help from someone who can hit flighting pigeons at 40 yards, do me the honour of not trying to add to that because it is irrelevant.

It seems that there are very few people reading this post who can do a lot better than I am doing although I have received some very thoughtful and helpful comments along with a lot of nannies spouting irrelevant dross.

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1 minute ago, martinj said:

Whatever! and I don't see what that has to do with this post. I was asking for help from someone who can hit flighting pigeons at 40 yards, do me the honour of not trying to add to that because it is irrelevant.

It seems that there are very few people reading this post who can do a lot better than I am doing although I have received some very thoughtful and helpful comments along with a lot of nannies spouting dross.

Martin,

It would be fair to say that I have done a fair bit of flighting pigeons. That doesn't make me an expert by any means but it may qualify me to comment.

Pigeons at 40m flighting out in the open should not present you with many difficulties provided that you know your gun, cartridge choke combination. My own method is to give that extra bit of lead than for decoying birds.

Roosting pigeons are different. It is more tempting to shoot at pigeons further away than normal as chances are usually less frequent. I try to see a space in front of the bird and shoot into that space ignoring if possible the many branches that are likely to be in the way.

I will always shoot more out in the open even at longer distances than 40m than I will roost shooting when the pigeons may only be 30m away.

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21 minutes ago, martinj said:

Whatever! and I don't see what that has to do with this post. I was asking for help from someone who can hit flighting pigeons at 40 yards, do me the honour of not trying to add to that because it is irrelevant.

It seems that there are very few people reading this post who can do a lot better than I am doing although I have received some very thoughtful and helpful comments along with a lot of nannies spouting irrelevant dross.

Diddums then:lol:

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On 24/11/2020 at 10:03, lakeside1000 said:

I rarely shoot roost areas as I have a real problem staying focused on the bird , I see branches but loose sight of the bird before getting a shot off, reaction time for me is slow and the fact that the bird appears overhead without warning puts me in panic mode to take the shot.

By the time I pull the trigger I am shooting branches off the trees or just an empty sky, My son who is in his 40's can hit them all day long but at 72 I am way too slow, and the more I miss the worse it gets with sheer frustration. 

I much prefer open farm land with wide clear views, giving me plenty of time to prepare mentally  for the shot, I use 31 gm 6's through a half choke and regularly kill out to 50 yards plus, I was standing with the gamekeeper last week as a pigeon came across out at 75 yards, (paced out later) I took the shot and killed it stone dead in the air.(the keeper was very impressed)

Long shots are a matter of confidence and experience, just watch Andy Crow etc to see long range accurate shooting.

Also the cartridge makes a lot of difference in pattern and energy at range, recently I have been trying out some Italian Romagnola by RC ,they are 31 gm 6's and pack a real punch .

Just as an after though I would never use 7's on pigeons as I don't believe they hold enough pattern or energy even at 30 yards, many will disagree but after 50 years of shooting that's my experience.

 

Isn't that a rather contradictory post. 7s are no good past, or even at,30 yards, but 6s will do 50 or even on a good day 75 yards it seems.

What I can never understand is how a particular cartridge can 'pack a real punch and others can't. By and large down range they'll all be travelling the same speed. If the shot size is the same, then they'll all have the same energy. The problem here, though, is the shot size as it could well be that the RC is more than likely to be a 5&1/2 unless the differing standards have been taken into account. This would give more energy, but at the cost of pattern density as the choke is the same (1/2). I'd hazard a guess that the 'punch' is as a result of the pattern which is not necessarily due to the cartridge but the gun.

On 24/11/2020 at 11:35, old'un said:

Sorry, but I have to say I'm one of the many.

:good:Me too.

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