Shooting incident in Plymouth

[Guest cookoff013]

4 hours ago, Zapp said:

Police firearms departments are overstretched and subject to a lot of bureaucracy.  FEOs, who dont get paid a great deal, have to manage big caseloads and take risk based decisions all the time.  Sadly its inevitable that they arent always going to get it right.

People will slip through the net unless it is fixed, and in my opinion this rather than our gun laws is where the problem lies.  Off the top of my head I can think of two very serious child sex offenders who were members of this forum and who had guns.  I've personally been threatened, stalked and harassed by people who were on PW.   

!

OMG.

[islandgun]

just read about this on BBC news online and one of the links spells out very well the law regarding gun ownership and statistics comparing the UK with other countries, link https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58198857

[12gauge82]

32 minutes ago, henry d said:

I originally posted this thread after my BIL got several text messages, as he lives nearby but is visiting us, and waited a while for the first few reports.

The area is well known for dealing and using, mostly weed, and I wonder if there may be something that comes out of this terrible event also linking weed? No matter what, it's a terrible event.

What on earth makes you leap to that conclusion?

It sounds far more likely its another nutter disillusioned with society who has taken his shortcomings out on everyone around him and even that's a wild guess,but imo a far more likely one, with at least a few facts to base it on. Unless I've missed something? 

[markm]

19 minutes ago, islandgun said:

just read about this on BBC news online and one of the links spells out very well the law regarding gun ownership and statistics comparing the UK with other countries, link https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58198857

I cannot believe how balanced that is from the BBC. 

[Dave-G]

Quite balanced from Ch5 too - news suggesting questions will be asked about why he was allowed a licence.

[hodge911]

It boils my p that the media /TV are taking great lengths to state the fact that " the gun man was a license holder" .

How many flaming people are shot each year by illegally owned guns or even stabbed .

YES it is absolutely terrible that innocent people have lost their lives but is it any worse because the "the gunman held a licence for the gun" .

[islandgun]

44 minutes ago, markm said:

I cannot believe how balanced that is from the BBC. 

yes very refreshing. leaves the reader with no doubt of the realities of UK licensing

[Yellow Bear]

10 minutes ago, hodge911 said:

YES it is absolutely terrible that innocent people have lost their lives but is it any worse because the "the gunman held a licence for the gun" .

SGC yes but maybe not a licence for that gun:

BBC reports pump action but police will say no more

others report multiple fast shots perhaps indicating section 1.

 

[Sion2981]

I have just saw in the news that the guns were taken from him in September 2020 due to a assault allegation and was returned last month.  

[Stonepark]

Looks like police are going to face severe questioning over their removal and regranting of licence... hints of Dunblane and Hungerford......

[Sion2981]

2 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

Looks like police are going to face severe questioning over their removal and regranting of licence... hints of Dunblane and Hungerford......

They sent him on a anger management course then gave them back 

[mossy835]

so if the police were in the wrong.we are the ones that may suffer not them.

[Agriv8]

As most of us on here will understand these 4 paragraphs have tears  of disbelief welling up - again from bbc article. OMG !

The Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) said it had received preliminary information that Davison's firearm and licence were returned to him in early July this year. 

The certificate and shotgun had been removed from him by police in December 2020 following an allegation of assault in September 2020, the watchdog said.

The IOPC has said it will investigate Devon and Cornwall Police's decision-making in relation to Davison's possession of a shotgun and shotgun certificate. 

Regional IOPC Director David Ford said: "The investigation will also consider whether the force had any information concerning Mr Davison's mental health and if so, if this information was appropriately considered."

 

 

Bbc Full article

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Agriv8

[Dave-G]

4 hours ago, old man said:

Nope, they are just guns. The term weapon is derived from the intent to inflict harm or damage, that could be applied to a piece of wood?

In other contexts I could agree with you but on this issue: HE used HIS gun as a weapon to inflict harm and death.

[welsh1]

4 hours ago, old man said:

Nope, they are just guns. The term weapon is derived from the intent to inflict harm or damage, that could be applied to a piece of wood?

Nope they are weapons they were designed for a specific purpose to inflict harm.

[MirokuMK70]

3 hours ago, hodge911 said:

YES it is absolutely terrible that innocent people have lost their lives but is it any worse because the "the gunman held a licence for the gun" .

YES because somehow the right to own a shotgun was granted to a man capable of turning it on a passing 3 year old girl. The system is clearly broken.

[ShootingEgg]

8 hours ago, toontastic said:

Is this now part of the criteria for having a licence that you must go on social media and talk about it. 

Not to my knowledge nope. I just said when posting on the internet all of us have a responsibility to not be idiots. 

Post up messing around then expect to be questioned. Say questionable things you'd be challenged, happens on here most days.

So no social media is not criteria but is something that is open and for all to see, so be prepared to be quizzed on behaviour that others may find out of sorts.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

BBC News saying he held a SGC and it had been revoked and then the revocation was lifted.

So will the Doctor or the head of the Licensing Department be hung out to dry, or just us with our legally held weapons?

[ShootingEgg]

6 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

BBC News saying he held a SGC and it had been revoked and then the revocation was lifted.

So will the Doctor or the head of the Licensing Department be hung out to dry, or just us with our legally held weapons?

Will be the rest of us..

[Agriv8]

32 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

BBC News saying he held a SGC and it had been revoked and then the revocation was lifted.

So will the Doctor or the head of the Licensing Department be hung out to dry, or just us with our legally held weapons?

TC - my post above in a similar vain. Question on that decision will have ramifications for all of us ! But there a family out there that had a 3 year old and farther taken from them. It tears at my heart strings - must be time for a external assessment before guns returned. 
 

Sad really Sad 😢 

Agriv8

[WalkedUp]

8 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

This is a tragic event that is hard to comprehend, like I'm sure everyone on here, my heart genuinely goes out to anyone affected. 

The problem with the licensing side of things is while people can legally hold firearms, no matter how good the licensing process is, there will always be mistakes, loopholes, or people that have never raised any flags or have become mentally ill who will do something like this, that's not the shooting communitys fault, or the polices fault either. Like anything in life, everything has a risk attached and while licence holders can own guns, unfortunately there's always going to be a small chance of a shooting occurring. 

Agree, we must make the risk as low as reasonably possible.

[RyanMc]

11 hours ago, Rob85 said:

We get warned in Northern Ireland not to even post pictures of ourselves with guns on our own social media accounts. Or behave in such a way that could be demonstrated that a thief traced us through social media leading to theft of guns. 

+1 

Basic common sense. 

[LeedsZeppelin]

2 hours ago, RyanMc said:

+1 

Basic common sense. 

+2 

The FEO for West Yorkshire mentions the same things regarding social media.

11 hours ago, old'un said:

One of his videos I watched was “Missing out on teenage love and experiences and people who say its not a big deal” although he did not see himself as “Incel” he subscribed to their channel and ideology which is disturbing in its self, Incels often blame the ills of society for their plight, and find themselves angry at the world and women in particular for the lack of interest from the opposite sex, despite their best efforts.

The frighting thing is, there are over 17k followers of the incel (involuntarily celibate) ideology.

Someone on the UKGuns board on Reddit linked his Reddit account. It is a sad read through his previous posts, and he clearly identified as an Incel with a hatred for the world.

The signs were there. The guy was clearly ill and shouldn't have had a ticket.

Will more funding be allocated into the police firearms departments to help check eligibility? Probably not.

Will more doctors suddenly turn conchie and refuse to sign anyone off? Probably.

I was recently thinking of applying for an FAC. Maybe I should get a shuffle on before the goal posts change.

[Mungler]

in the majority of these cases there is an obvious absence of ‘life glue’.

Life glue is the ‘stuff’ that glues us into life and society and make it much harder for anyone to flip out - a long term and significant other half, children, a relationship with parents, a job and real world friends etc.

I know hindsight is 20/20 but of the known spree shooters here in the UK I doubt there’s anyone here who would have granted any one of them tickets.

That all said we are now in this modern challenging world and everyone has the right to an appeal, to call for a manager, to make a complaint and to have their say and be listened too no matter how ridiculous or daft their position may be - I wouldn’t want to work for firearms licensing because I can imagine the weirdos make a right fuss if someone threatens to take their precious guns away. At work I’ve had to say ‘no’ to weirdos (people on the other side and ‘former’ clients) and these people then make it their life’s mission to ruin yours and often they have all the time and all the energy to do so. 
.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Mungler

[Mungler]

14 hours ago, henry d said:

The area is well known for dealing and using, mostly weed, and I wonder if there may be something that comes out of this terrible event also linking weed? No matter what, it's a terrible event.

Talk about projecting. 

No Henry, there’s no suggestion as yet the dreaded ‘green’ was behind this, nor immigrants nor rap music nor computer games nor a secret sect of government sponsored assassins who knocked off Lady Diana (just to tick off the Daily Express  list of causes).