bostonmick Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) Boris announces some more sanctions.but to give them a chance some dont start until Tuesday .got to be fair and give putin a chance to arrange things around them. Edited February 24, 2022 by bostonmick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 54 minutes ago, Dave-G said: Does anyone know if Ukraine got an invite to join NATO like its neighbours and declined? The discussions on them joining NATO had been going on for a long time then in 2010 their newly appointed President rejected the idea and backed out. In the subsequent 2014 change of government this was reversed and it was apparently agreed that they would join but it would take many years to complete (for reasons I'm not entirely sure of). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said: for reasons I'm not entirely sure of). Perhaps the fact that article 5 says that they will protect all members, and Ukraine was already locking horns with a nuclear superpower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 44 minutes ago, Smokersmith said: Perhaps the fact that article 5 says that they will protect all members, and Ukraine was already locking horns with a nuclear superpower. I looked it up and yes, as well as that democracy, individual liberty and upholding the rule of law. Apparently Biden himself had warned years ago they needed to reform their widespread corruption. It remains to be seen but I would have thought the current scenario increases Ukranian resolve to join NATO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of the situation, someone needs to explain cause and effect to Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Whatever the rights and wrongs of this we can all breathe a sigh of relief that we don't have Trump in charge of the States. Interesting prospect of resupplying Ukraine going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted February 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 6 minutes ago, oowee said: Whatever the rights and wrongs of this we can all breathe a sigh of relief that we don't have Trump in charge of the States. Interesting prospect of resupplying Ukraine going forward. Trump might have got the slacking NATO members to pay their fair share - not unreasonable given how close they are to Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Blair and Putin have dealt with devolution in very different ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Why do we not all have Putin at the top of the sanction list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 8 minutes ago, oowee said: Why do we not all have Putin at the top of the sanction list? Because the Biden family is in bed with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said: Because the Biden family is in bed with him. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 I feel like this plan would be more effective had they done it years ago so the civilians could have time to train and stockpile ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 21 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said: I feel like this plan would be more effective had they done it years ago so the civilians could have time to train and stockpile ammo. That's all well and good, but if say the residents of a block of flats start taking pot shots at Russian soldiers, the Russian troops will return fire with tanks and machine guns. Then they'll say they were attacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 7 minutes ago, Mice! said: That's all well and good, but if say the residents of a block of flats start taking pot shots at Russian soldiers, the Russian troops will return fire with tanks and machine guns. Then they'll say they were attacked. I think that’s the plan. If every Ukrainian get one Russian before being killed themselves then the bodies will add up. War of attrition almost always grinds the invaders down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 The West should take military action on a huge scale, learn the lessons of Hitler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 27 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said: I think that’s the plan. If every Ukrainian get one Russian before being killed themselves then the bodies will add up. War of attrition almost always grinds the invaders down. Look how long the Russians were in Afghanistan, Afghanistan is the grave yard of empires. If the Ukraine doesn't have an army then I just can't see them waging a guerrilla war on the invaders, its not like Iraq where an army disappeared back into the population then continued to fight. The middle east has been unsettled and waging war with each other since Gehngis Khan, Europe is nothing like this, without help I don't see how the Ukraine come out of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 6 hours ago, Mice! said: If the Ukraine doesn't have an army then I just can't see them waging a guerrilla war on the invaders Ukraine has the second biggest army in the region, behind Russia, quite a way behind mind. Russia's army is 900,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 Russia having big air and sea advantages means that they could and probably will attack with little ground force to start. Hit it hard with air strikes and from the war ships etc. It won't be long before they take control of many key areas. Ukraine I think just did not expect such a fast shock and awe style attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 Hello, did anyone listen to Ben Wallace this morning on Sky, ? Putin does not care about sanctions as it will not effect him, he does not care how many Russian military or Ukrainian citizens die, all he wants is to make Ukraine part of the Russian state and put all the Ukrainian people under Russian administration and law as same with China and Hong Kong , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 7 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said: The West should take military action on a huge scale, learn the lessons of Hitler. Hello, I fear it's to late , if the West and NATO had amassed a huge army all along the borders around Ukraine Putin may have stood still , but how long for, Putin wants Ukraine, by any means, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 UK parliament stepping back from Syria hamstrung Obama allowing Russia to push ahead as the only military power that will exert itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 3 hours ago, ShootingEgg said: It won't be long before they take control of many key areas. Ukraine I think just did not expect such a fast shock and awe style attack. I'm not sure how they didn't expect it when you look at the numbers of Russian troops on the borders? 3 hours ago, Newbie to this said: Ukraine has the second biggest army in the region, behind Russia, quite a way behind mind. Russia's army is 900,000 It depends which link you click on. https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20220120-is-the-ukrainian-military-really-a-david-against-the-russian-goliath This is an interesting read, but it says 150,000 combat ready troops, a poor Air force but the country has had billions of dollars worth of equipment brought in over the last few years to combat a Russian invasion. It reads as lots of surrounding NATO countries providing aid knowing its the path Russia would take. I can't see any other countries doing anything offensive to help, there is no benefit to them, its just if Russia stops at Ukraine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 25 minutes ago, Mice! said: This is an interesting read, but it says 150,000 combat ready troops, a poor Air force but the country has had billions of dollars worth of equipment brought in over the last few years to combat a Russian invasion. Token gestures, like the German helmet donation (🤭 ) When Ukraines military infrastructure and equipment is based on Russian patterns, theres only so much NATO can provide, without Ukraine shelling out on a complete overhaul, and switching to western practice and armaments. Something it simply couldnt afford to do. 25 minutes ago, Mice! said: It reads as lots of surrounding NATO countries providing aid knowing its the path Russia would take. Well theres a simple answer to that one , if they KNEW this was going to happen, why didnt they do something different to what they have been doing, both Ukraine and NATO. Why is it all such a shock ? 26 minutes ago, Mice! said: I can't see any other countries doing anything offensive to help, there is no benefit to them, its just if Russia stops at Ukraine? Why would they go further , after Ukraine there is NATO , and thats WW3 , which Russia cannot win ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted February 25, 2022 Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 6 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Why would they go further , after Ukraine there is NATO , and thats WW3 , which Russia cannot win ? The likes of putin do not recognise any possibility of defeat.all the reports that putin was game playing and would not attack were wrong.dont ever think he would back away from ww3 and using nuclear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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