Disappearing Pubs ?

[adzyvilla]

The village i grew up in, modestly sized and of a mixed cross section of population had 5 pubs and a sports and social club when I was a teenager (20 plus years ago). It now has one gastropub owned by a big brewer and a Thai restaurant. The other pubs are now private houses and the club has been derelict for a decade or more. This isn't a new phenomena and is largely driven by the availability of cheap supermarket booze, sky high rents for landlords and as previously stated the smoking ban. Gone too are the village post office, butchers, greengrocers, 2 pump petrol station and general store which were all thriving when I was still at school. Then along came sainsburys who built a huge store about 2 miles away and one by one they all disappeared.

All is not lost now because the former post office became a community hub which the mobile post office visits once a week and is busier now than it ever was and is owned by the villagers themselves so they have a stake in its survival. It is sad that these things have passed into history, along with the people who owned them, but this seems to be the way society is going. 

Edited March 4, 2023 by adzyvilla

[Imperfection]

My teenage pub in town closed about 20 years ago and has remained boarded up. However, Wetherspoons opened up three doors along and gone from strength to strength so their buy cheap/sell cheap policy clearly works.

When im out working i see so many closed down pubs and night clubs all over the place which is sad to see but i think its evolution-peoples drinking habits have changed. 

[Bigbob]

When i was working we would meet up as a shift for a night out one drink in a pub and move on to the next i hated it some of the prices where crazy  i wanted a seat in a wetherspoons pub cheap drink and maybe food before i went home without taking out a loan . If i do have a drink these days in a pub its a wetherspoons pub where we have went for lunch and have a pint . I much prefer having a drink in the house now if the mood takes me comfy seat and no problems getting home at the end of the night 

[Lloyd90]

19 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

A lot around where I live...five miles west of Leicester...now close at 10pm and some even don't open much at all in the evening. The staff wages, the heating and if they've a spirits tie* mean make little profit on the drink. 

* A spirits tie is where, like a beer tie, the landlord or landlady has to buy their only spirits from the brewery that owns the pub. Therefore the profits are much less on spirits than if the landlord or landlady could buy the spirits from elsewhere. Thus the now old time description of a "tied house" or if not tied a "free house" as in free of a tie.

I’m surprised no one else has mentioned the breweries. 
 

Years ago the pub land lords that I knew used to make a good profit on the food and other sides. 
 

These days I’ve heard of lots of contracts where the brewery has to supply pretty much everything, and they want a cut of the money from the food as well. 
 

The big breweries seem to be doing fine, they aren’t closing down one every week. 
 

I think @ShootingEgghad a pub for a bit, when he took it over they were losing a fortune, he worked hard to just about break even, then the brewery doubled the rent. 

[Bigbob]

Or the Scottish government set a unit price on alcohol but theres is it 5 subsidised bars in  our parliament we will tax you having a drink but we can become alcoholics it seems 

[marsh man]

1 hour ago, adzyvilla said:

The village i grew up in, modestly sized and of a mixed cross section of population had 5 pubs and a sports and social club when I was a teenager (20 plus years ago). It now has one gastropub owned by a big brewer and a Thai restaurant. The other pubs are now private houses and the club has been derelict for a decade or more. This isn't a new phenomena and is largely driven by the availability of cheap supermarket booze, sky high rents for landlords and as previously stated the smoking ban. Gone too are the village post office, butchers, greengrocers, 2 pump petrol station and general store which were all thriving when I was still at school. Then along came sainsburys who built a huge store about 2 miles away and one by one they all disappeared.

All is not lost now because the former post office became a community hub which the mobile post office visits once a week and is busier now than it ever was and is owned by the villagers themselves so they have a stake in its survival. It is sad that these things have passed into history, along with the people who owned them, but this seems to be the way society is going. 

This would be a very similar situation with most villages in Norfolk and no doubt further afield , most of the pubs were for the working man who enjoyed a pint on a Friday night or when they had a meeting for any club your were in such as a gardening club , dart clubs or in my case a wild fowling club , this was all done on disposable income which became less and less as time wore on , then while everything else was going up in price so was the beer in the pub , I stopped drinking several years ago as I was driving more or less everyday and was finding it quite expensive , a couple of weeks ago we had our shoot meal , the meal wasn't bad and reasonable value at £20 a head , I bought the friend I took a pint of bitter and I had a pint of shandy and I got less than a pounds change out of a tenner , this was no problem as a one off but no way could I afford that two or three days a week .

[Donkey]

Where I live in SW London a pint is of peroni lager is £6.75 A Sunday roast £18.00 way too expensive for me 

[Scully]

3 hours ago, adzyvilla said:

The village i grew up in, modestly sized and of a mixed cross section of population had 5 pubs and a sports and social club when I was a teenager (20 plus years ago). It now has one gastropub owned by a big brewer and a Thai restaurant. The other pubs are now private houses and the club has been derelict for a decade or more. This isn't a new phenomena and is largely driven by the availability of cheap supermarket booze, sky high rents for landlords and as previously stated the smoking ban. Gone too are the village post office, butchers, greengrocers, 2 pump petrol station and general store which were all thriving when I was still at school. Then along came sainsburys who built a huge store about 2 miles away and one by one they all disappeared.

All is not lost now because the former post office became a community hub which the mobile post office visits once a week and is busier now than it ever was and is owned by the villagers themselves so they have a stake in its survival. It is sad that these things have passed into history, along with the people who owned them, but this seems to be the way society is going. 

Very similar story to my home town. It’s a small market town and as a youth there were nine pubs plus hotels which had public bars, five garages which also served fuel, two banks, three grocers, and a post office plus numerous other good shops. 
There are now five pubs, no banks, one garage which doesn’t serve fuel ( for that it depends on the agricultural store ) two hotels have closed and only one has a public bar, no grocers. It has many charity shops, still has two butchers, and two obligatory Turkish barbers! But it does have a very good Indian and Chinese. 🙂

There was always a few cross purpose suppliers ( grocers which also sold cold meats as supplied by butchers, and butchers which sold cheese, chutneys and eggs for example ) and I suppose we’ve got off lightly so far, but it’s still sad to see so many vacant, neglected and boarded up commercial properties in the town centre. 
 

[Madhatter2132]

My land ladies in my favourite pub are handing it back to the brewery at the end of the month, for me it's an absolute shame because they keep a great atmosphere in there even on the busier nights like new years by just turning away people they don't like the look of they're great lassies and run a brilliant friendly pub.

They're handing it back because the energy bills are going up 60k for the year, when I worked it out at 100% profit on a pint of staropramem which I normally drink in there they'd need to sell 13,000 extra pints a year, that's roughly 35 extra pints a day at 100% profit just to break even on the energy increase, now I like a drink but I can't do that much every day unfortunately. When I think about how much that would need to be at a realistic profit margin I wonder how any smaller pubs can survive.

The brewery is shutting it for 12 weeks for a refurb and I'm really worried they'll ruin it so I've got 3 weeks to enjoy it, and 3 months to find a new pub for me and the dogs.

The pub I drank in as a youth and learnt how to behave at a bar without getting a smack got turned into flats, ironically I nearly brought one of them. It's much missed but in all honesty was in the wrong location to survive long term, sometimes they're just in the wrong place.

[Vince Green]

My Dad said that when he was a lad people went to the pub because it had a fire in the hearth and a piano in the corner.

[mossy835]

i remember when going to the pub, 5 pints a night for 10 bob.thats 50p

[ShootingEgg]

3 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

I’m surprised no one else has mentioned the breweries. 
 

Years ago the pub land lords that I knew used to make a good profit on the food and other sides. 
 

These days I’ve heard of lots of contracts where the brewery has to supply pretty much everything, and they want a cut of the money from the food as well. 
 

The big breweries seem to be doing fine, they aren’t closing down one every week. 
 

I think @ShootingEgghad a pub for a bit, when he took it over they were losing a fortune, he worked hard to just about break even, then the brewery doubled the rent. 

Yep

Took over when they were struggling to turn over 1k a week, in the first year we turned over 325k had a three year contract that they tried to riggle out of to get 35K out of us, when we had signed 12k first year, 15k second then 18k third.

I kindly told them where the keys were. Would rather walk away than be screwed over. Breweries are now run by accountants, have been for years.

It's hard enough with the rules now with smoking ban etc ( yes that killed the trade big time)

The breweries will always make money... They charge such stupid amounts for the bottles and barrels. A few pubs near me who were under the same brewery wanted to do a co op with us and then we'd be able to buy higher volume for better price, the brewery shut us down on that idea. Yet places like the big supper markets can buy high volume and cheap 

Edited March 4, 2023 by ShootingEgg

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I know hindsight is a wonderful thing, Sir Kier Starmer proves it on a weekly basis!

But, if when the smoking ban was brought in, half of the venues had gone non smoking and the other half had remained smoking it could have been made to work to the advantage of smokers, non smokers and the publicans.

[henry d]

Interesting, our village has 5 pubs (one is a cricket club) in a 20 minute walk radius from my home. There was one more but it closed pre covid and became housing, many moons ago it was the busiest as it was at the bottom of the hill and closest to the shipyard. With the end of the shipyard you had to walk all the way down the hill to it so trade slowed andtherewerefew homes nearby. The pub halfway up the hill is decidedly odd, no housing around it, all bombed or pulled down, and is imo the best for miles, only food is crisps and nuts or bring your own on Sundays, they have a quiz, darts, pool, and buskers evening dotted through the week and a licencee who keeps his beers in top condition. Pub at the top of the hill nearest the village is up to rent again as it was an old man's boozer and very insular and only got good numbers when it was sunny. The cricket club is nice but only open Thursday to Sunday and  match nights. The other are "gastro" so only go for food infrequently. 

In the past the first three would have been bouncing as the workers went home via each one andeveryonewouldknow each other. Today they are isolated as people have their favourite ones, bar some who are alcoholic and will totter from one to the other, and people come from further afield as well as walkers doing the keelman's way along the Tyne Valley.

The gastros will continue but never be a social hub, the others hopefully will. 

[Yellow Bear]

15 hours ago, Vince Green said:

My Dad said that when he was a lad people went to the pub because it had a fire in the hearth and a piano in the corner.

Ah but then, using draconian licencing laws, they banned the piano,  This added to the fall.  No live music, even a sing song needed a licence. 

[ShootingEgg]

4 hours ago, Yellow Bear said:

Ah but then, using draconian licencing laws, they banned the piano,  This added to the fall.  No live music, even a sing song needed a licence. 

Even to play a cd or from a mobile etc now you need PRS.

it's all red tape and rules now. Alot of my locals said they'd cut down on nights die to the smoking ban, they would normally pre ban, finish work and stop in for their end of day pint smoke and social before going home for dinner. Now they just go hom for a smoke and a tin .. pubs lose out, when as said above, they could have worked it so that you could have a smoking room etc( if the venue could)

[Newbie to this]

Should have been left at having to display a sign that the pub was a smoking pub. People could then make their own mind up as to whether they go in or not.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just now, Newbie to this said:

Should have been left at having to display a sign that the pub was a smoking pub. People could then make their own mind up as to whether they go in or not.

Oi! Stop being so damned sensible, it will not do you any good!   

[amateur]

6 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Should have been left at having to display a sign that the pub was a smoking pub. People could then make their own mind up as to whether they go in or not.

But then, alas, the publican gets scuppered by 'elf n sayefty in order to protect his increasing number of young, non-smoking staff.

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, amateur said:

But then, alas, the publican gets scuppered by 'elf n sayefty in order to protect his increasing number of young, non-smoking staff.

I think it would have been perfectly possible (at least for many pubs) to have a smoking room.  Not staffed, and without a bar. 

Personally (despite the fact that in days gone by I used to enjoy a smoke in the pub) I now prefer pubs non smoking, but would be quite happy for there to be a smoking room as long as I didn't have to sit in there.

Maybe it's different in other parts of the country, but many pubs here (locally) have an outside smoking area and even in the summer when it's warm out, it is little used in most pubs.  I don't know what the percentage is regionally and nationally, but in my village - out of around 200 people, I only know three who smoke - and those are only an occasional cigar or pipe when out.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 minute ago, JohnfromUK said:

I think it would have been perfectly possible (at least for many pubs) to have a smoking room.  Not staffed, and without a bar. 

Personally (despite the fact that in days gone by I used to enjoy a smoke in the pub) I now prefer pubs non smoking, but would be quite happy for there to be a smoking room as long as I didn't have to sit in there.

Maybe it's different in other parts of the country, but many pubs here (locally) have an outside smoking area and even in the summer when it's warm out, it is little used in most pubs.  I don't know what the percentage is regionally and nationally, but in my village - out of around 200 people, I only know three who smoke - and those are only an occasional cigar or pipe when out.

Unfortunately, around here, the smokers often congregate around the doorway and it is not very inviting!

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, TIGHTCHOKE said:

it is not very inviting

As an ex smoker I entirely agree!

[Aled]

Two points: I like most of my generation loved pubs, met your mates, made new mates, and met women. Point no 2, i used to smoke and 80% of my smoking happened in pubs when i drank (i think the term is social smoker) Gave up smoking a good few years ago now, but when i have a pint in a pub and i sit down i still think a cigarette would be nice now. However we are losing pubs here i used to have a cracking pub crawl in my local town during my 20's, most gone now. The pubs that are still open have limited opening hours, New Years Eve....the best pub in my home town was closed, due to a lack of staff. Oh how things have changed! 

[enfieldspares]

1 hour ago, Newbie to this said:

Should have been left at having to display a sign that the pub was a smoking pub. People could then make their own mind up as to whether they go in or not.

The people worked there couldn't though. Passive smoking was and is a killer. Having said that my grandmother managed the Royal Oak at Mareham !e Fen in Lincolnshire for thirty three years and died aged eighty-nine. But was always breathless. It was a large saloon bar and being in a village few smoked as it was expensive. But in pubs with smaller size bars the smoke must have been quite heavy.

[Scully]

Speaking as an ex smoker, I have to agree pubs and restaurants are so much nicer now. 
Prior to the ban in England we worked quite often in Scotland which introduced the ban before us, and we would see smokers looking miserable stood in doorways trying to keep out of the wind and rain while they got their fix. 🙂

Long before the ban in England, some fellow non smoking workers started complaining about us smoking in the works canteen, so part of it was partitioned off as a smoking room.
After we were banished there was very little craic left in the canteen, so annoyingly, many of those who had complained would levitate to the smoking room for the craic! 
They got short shrift from us however, and those whom we knew had complained soon got sick of us deliberately blowing smoke in their faces and were sent packing! 🙂