Scottish referendum #2

[shaun4860]

Still off topic but for one think the UK is a better place for having Scotland in it,

 

You will always get the militants on both sides slagging each other off but I like Scotland and the Scots

 

[sako751sg]

For all his sins, and there were many of them, Cameron resigned after he lost the Brexit vote.

Sturgeon lost the Independance vote but is still with us. Certain lack of integrity methinks.

 

No!!

[oowee]

I am currently in Jersey on my hols (by the way the weather is great). An island of just 100k no oil a few fish, spuds and a drop of cream. If Jersey can do it with its tax terms and finance industry I am sure a creative country like Scotland would manage easily.

[ditchman]

I am currently in Jersey on my hols (by the way the weather is great). An island of just 100k no oil a few fish, spuds and a drop of cream. If Jersey can do it with its tax terms and finance industry I am sure a creative country like Scotland would manage easily.

 

 

what are the ideas that nicola has come up with......................anyone heard her mention any ?

[Boromir]

First point Scotland if voted yes would not be in the EU and with a deficit worse than Greece wouldn't even get in if it asked, France and Spain would deny them as well.

Second point they are tearing apart Scotland since they announced the first referendum it has not been the same Wastemonster this English ********, north sea oil. Just go on sturgeons fb page they all thinking of Utopia.

 

Its just the I'm more Scottish than you chip on shoulder **** who think they will get special treatment in the big world. I think PM Theresa May should call her bluff and set a date it will be another no vote and Sturgeon and the SNP will disband..

 

And those that say just get rid of Scotland thats their plan they want to **** off the English spread hatred against the scots, so we think that everyone in England hate us.

[norfolk dumpling]

If the EU referendum has taught us something no one will accept this without some hard facts on the outcome of a 'leave' vote. I voted out of the EU but at no point did any of the experts, on either side, explain at all what would be the impact in or out. It was gut feel only and I suspect for the majority this was the case too.

 

The Scots are not stupid and having seen what the Westminster lot did in June hopefully they will ask more than a few question of the SNP and not base a decision on 'Nationalism'. Scotland is not a wealthy country and they have some severe social problems. An 'out' vote would leave them without the huge subsidy they get today and no EU membership - or at least for the next 20yrs.

[rimfire4969]

I have no idea where the poison dwarf is going to get the money from. Maybe she will get rid of the free prescriptions for everyone and free carehomes for the elderly or will start to charge for college or universities courses.

 

I think I am just jealous at what people get north of the boarder.

[scotslad]

Well said norfolk dumpling, the 2 votes were very similar as u really had to go with ur gut/heart as hard to vote with ur head with so many false/optimistic promises being banded about on both sides.

 

 

There does definately seem to be far more anti scottish abuse thrown our way that wot comes back, do u think french/german/europeans are hurling the same isults towrds UK?

It's just a vote voting for independance means u hate england any more than the vote to leae the EU means u hate europe.

 

i cannot stand sturgeon or salmonds politics but i'll tell u wot, they could be 2 of the shrewdest cleverist politicains in UK at minute, to be fair that is not saying an awful lot, as there has never been a time when decent politicains (bet those 2 words are not often used together) are so non existant;

And to be fair both the other 2 scotiish leaders Davidson and Dugdale are also pretty good too, seem to be far more down to earth and working class and not from the whole private school posh uni's that most of the english 1's seem to be

[markm]

I am currently in Jersey on my hols (by the way the weather is great). An island of just 100k no oil a few fish, spuds and a drop of cream. If Jersey can do it with its tax terms and finance industry I am sure a creative country like Scotland would manage easily.

Running a country 9 mile X 6 miles with a small population (many rich people, have you looked in estate agents windows) with a large tourism industry per capita is a little different to Scotland.

[Kalahari]

First point Scotland if voted yes would not be in the EU and with a deficit worse than Greece wouldn't even get in if it asked, France and Spain would deny them as well.

Second point they are tearing apart Scotland since they announced the first referendum it has not been the same Wastemonster this English ********, north sea oil. Just go on sturgeons fb page they all thinking of Utopia.

 

Its just the I'm more Scottish than you chip on shoulder **** who think they will get special treatment in the big world. I think PM Theresa May should call her bluff and set a date it will be another no vote and Sturgeon and the SNP will disband..

 

And those that say just get rid of Scotland thats their plan they want to **** off the English spread hatred against the scots, so we think that everyone in England hate us.

Have to agree with this. I think Westminster should call the SNP on this. Scotland has to decide where it wants to be before the negotiations for Brexit get complicated. If they are with the rest of the UK (as I hope they would be) the negotiations would be stronger and Scotland would feel it was where it wanted to be.

 

David.

[Vince Green]

Running a country 9 mile X 6 miles with a small population (many rich people, have you looked in estate agents windows) with a large tourism industry per capita is a little different to Scotland.

Plus being the original offshore tax haven with billions stashed in its coffers is no small advantage

[grrclark]

we are getting away from the topic again....

 

what i was asking is................where will the scottish get their money from to run their country...........cause as i see it at the moment......they would take a 50% dive in living standards and a 100% increase in tax ...just to balance the books.................

 

Have the scottish got some sort of secrete export we know nothing about...............is donald trump going to buy scotland ?

 

 

just tell me how they will balance the books......give me a clue..............dont the voters ever ask the SNP this when they are on the doorstep ?...whats the answer ?

 

Scotland certainly could survive as an independent nation, we are a relatively strong economy with a good spread of revenues across industrial, high tech, finance, food & drink, pharmaceutical and agricultural economic sectors.

 

The problem is that we also currently have a disproportionately high level of reliance upon public sector funding, as a percentage share of population, whether that is direct council/government employees, welfare subsidies or indirectly funded private sector works, i.e. firms with government based contracts. As a result only around 20% of our individual tax payers are net contributors to the public purse.

 

The reality is that if Scotland were to go independent then there would have to be a significant rebalancing of the economy to correct this imbalance and that would absolutely mean a period of extreme austerity and increased taxation until such point as a balance was found.

 

Relative to our current public spending profile then absolutely a great many Scot's would be worse off should we secede from the union, perhaps significantly worse off, however with the right type of leadership then we may well be in a position to capitalise and take the country forward in say a generation or two.

 

There are of course some who would be significantly better off should Scotland go it alone, typically they are already very wealthy and could exploit the circumstance to suit their own objectives. Jim McColl of Clyde Blowers is a prime example, he was a prominent supporter of the Indy campaign.

 

As a few have said the narrative from the SNP was very much of allowing people to believe they would get something for nothing and as those people are blinded by jingoism then they are happy to believe that story.

 

The truth is that the SNP talk on the left, but walk on the right. They openly criticise Tory austerity at every opportunity, yet they pass that straight through and add an extra dollop of their own austerity on top, but the flag waving blinkered followers don't see any of that. There is not a single genuine socialist policy within the SNP yet they own that space.

 

The SNP hierarchy absolutely understand that a great chunk of their support are misguided in their belief, but they are not going to tell them they're wrong.

 

To answer your questions, No we couldn't maintain the same level of government expenditure in an independent Scotland, Yes that question has been asked many time to the SNP, No they have never been able to provide a credible answer to anybody who is capable of a bit of thought and analysis.

[ditchman]

interesting answer......

[AVB]

I am currently in Jersey on my hols (by the way the weather is great). An island of just 100k no oil a few fish, spuds and a drop of cream. If Jersey can do it with its tax terms and finance industry I am sure a creative country like Scotland would manage easily.

I know the business model for Jersey well. In my opinion it is a busted flush. The world is changing in respect of tax transparency and they will struggle in future years.

[Gordon R]

i cannot stand sturgeon or salmonds politics but i'll tell u wot, they could be 2 of the shrewdest cleverist politicains in UK at minute, to be fair that is not saying an awful lot,

 

 

I despair if that is true. They strike me as rabble rousing, low level politicians, who are totally out of their depth. Think Sturgeon alleging that Scotland could stay in the EU. Not with Spain to veto it. The hard truths never trouble them as they avoid answering - spouting slogans like "Strong for Scotland". A pair of simpletons in my book.

 

grrclark - decent answer.

[islandgun]

grrclark

 

good to hear you common sense again or to be honest not so common !

[mick miller]

Far from being shrewd, Sturgeon is a fantasist and an idiot. Sadly, north of the border, she seems to be in good company.

 

Some great comments, thoughts and opinions by our more erudite Scottish members though.

[Danger-Mouse]

More bumps in the road . . .

 

Independent Scotland 'could not have free trade with both UK and EU' if hard Brexit.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/07/independent-scotland-could-not-have-free-trade-with-both-uk-and/

[oowee]

Interesting chat with a Scot from Edinburgh saying it's mostly the English in Scotland making the difference voting for independence. For most Scots with half a brain voting for independance is like Turkey's voting for christmas. Lol

He was in Education and saying many English had taken advantage of free uni places by relocating over the border.

[UKPoacher]

Norfolk Dumpling makes a good point about the reasons for voting one way or the other without having the full facts of the impact of either decision. For my part the EU referendum was decided by people being more frightened of what they knew the future was inside the EU than a step into the dark and make the break. I suspect the same sort of thing sways the Scottish independence vote. Except that in this case it is the reverse. Scots know what benefits being part of the UK are, but the step into the dark really is a leap into the unknown.

 

As I saw it Camermoron played a blinder in granting Salmond the referendum. He took away the big stick that had irritated British politicians for years and swayed countless parliamentary votes, and ultimately took the legs from under Labour with 50 or so of their seats going to the SNP. Salmond looked like a rabbit in he headlights when Dodgy Dave announced that there would be a vote. He didn't actually want one as if he lost, as he did, the SNP had no purpose. That was before wee Jimmy stepped up and carried on as though nothing had happened. She is only plugging this issue as if there is not going to be a vote then her party are redundant.

[silver pigeon69]

some figures on Scotland: Last year due to Oil prices, Scotland had an Oil income of only £130m. Westminster subsidised Scotland to the tune of £15 Billion. There are 5.1m people in Scotland. So if Scotland became independent they will have to find just under £3000 for EVERY man, woman and child there. The austerity measures they would have to impose would be unbelievable.

 

Oil- someone has posted that North sea oil costs $18-$30 a barrel to uplift?? I think this may be an error as Saudi Oil, which is on land and relatively shallow, costs about this to uplift. If the north sea oil was making profit of $20-$30, at a barrel price of $40+, then Scotland would have made drastically more than £130m in oil revenue, than they did, for the last year.

 

 

Edit- punctuation

Edited September 9, 2016 by silver pigeon69

[big bad lindz]

some figures on Scotland: Last year due to Oil prices, Scotland had an Oil income of only £130m. Westminster subsidised Scotland to the tune of £15 Billion. There are 5.1m people in Scotland. So if Scotland became independent they will have to find just under £3000 for EVERY man, woman and child there. The austerity measures they would have to impose would be unbelievable.

 

Oil- someone has posted that North sea oil costs $18-$30 a barrel to uplift?? I think this may be an error as Saudi Oil, which is on land and relatively shallow, costs about this to uplift. If the north sea oil was making profit of $20-$30, at a barrel price of $40+, then Scotland would have made drastically more than £130m in oil revenue, than they did, for the last year.

 

 

Edit- punctuation

Hi Sliver Pigeon,

 

It was me that said that the company that I work for`s uplift for North Sea crude is around $18 / barrel. This is what we have been told by Apache North Sea Ltd. Currently generally recognized as the most efficient oil company operating within the North Sea. Its by no means all of the North Sea operators, some are currently running in the red and costing more each day. Apache are very shrewd with there money and how they spend it but they are investing in new wells and have a ongoing drilling operation. Hope to see my last few working years with them.

 

BBL

[Boromir]

Yes Scotland can be independent but there will be a big price to pay for it to happen and will it be worth it?. Can you see many companies that have most of their customers in the rest of the UK remain in Scotland? dont think so. Unless it becomes some sort of tax haven and can you imagine the ordinary folk accepting that.They are away with the fairies I live near faslane and they say only a few hundred jobs are there what lies they tell, I see couches and thousands of cars go into the base and you can see the whole base and see how big it is from a view point in Glen Fruin/Haul road.

The decision to stay part of the UK was made, Queen Nicol**** has broken the Edinburgh agreement and in my opinion should resign. Sorry for the ranting Im just fed up with the independence rubbish I hear every day.

[Whitebridges]

Fed up to the back teeth with all this.

 

Before long i'll be campaigning to to get rid of Scotland.

[Vince Green]

I live near faslane and they say only a few hundred jobs are there what lies they tell, I see couches and thousands of cars go into the base and you can see the whole base and see how big it is from a view point in Glen Fruin/Haul road.

 

We have the same problem with the steel works in South Wales because so many businesses outside the plant depended on the wages earned inside the plant to keep them afloat. Even a 10% drop in business for say a garage may be enough to tip them over the edge and the garage closes. That's the owner and two mechanics on the dole.

 

The cracks just run and run into the whole fabric of the community They are saying now that for every job that goes within the works another 15 will go outside from shops etc

Edited September 9, 2016 by Vince Green