Afghanistan

[oowee]

Watching the news in dispair at the desperate plight of the people fleeing the Taliban advance. What a waste of resources and lives over the last 20 years. Years of conflict and we have learnt so little. 

 

[Cosmicblue]

Before the west got involved the Russians spent a while there I recall.

[Zapp]

It makes me feel sick.  I lost friends in that war, apparently for nothing, and now we get to watch while the Taleban take Kabul. 

How long I wonder before that leads to another Caliphate of the sort we saw in Syria and Iraq?

[Gordon R]

I always question why the USA / UK et al get involved in conflict in another country. Pol Pot, Idi Amin etc murder people by the hundreds, thousands, hundreds of thousands and we do nothing. Afghanistan, Iraq - in we go - people die and then we pull out.

Little has changed, but soldiers are dead. For what?

[NoBodyImportant]

The Afghan army literally dropped their weapons and ran.  

[ditchman]

been waiting for this topic to come up..........the west has been trying to influence/take/subjugate........afganistan since the 18th century

i fear for their future...........what i do worry about is it will become a haven for ISIS

[TIGHTCHOKE]

7 minutes ago, NoBodyImportant said:

The Afghan army literally dropped their weapons and ran.  

And was anybody really surprised?

 

We really should stop getting involved in other peoples wars, protect our own borders and our own people.

[FOXHUNTER1]

11 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

I always question why the USA / UK et al get involved in conflict in another country. Pol Pot, Idi Amin etc murder people by the hundreds, thousands, hundreds of thousands and we do nothing. Afghanistan, Iraq - in we go - people die and then we pull out.

Little has changed, but soldiers are dead. For what?

Took the words right out of my mouth , we need to learn to keep out of it and let them sort their own problems out , why have our innocent soldiers killed for no reason. 

[Lloyd90]

Keep out of it and just protect our own borders?! 
 

The world is bigger than just our Island, and I would bet that the events of what goes on in places like the Middle East and other areas of the world impact on our day to day lives, whether people realise it or not… 

 

I don’t believe it is as simply as lining our Forces up on our borders and thinking we will be alright. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 minute ago, Lloyd90 said:

Keep out of it and just protect our own borders?! 
 

The world is bigger than just our Island, and I would bet that the events of what goes on in places like the Middle East and other areas of the world impact on our day to day lives, whether people realise it or not… 

 

I don’t believe it is as simply as lining our Forces up on our borders and thinking we will be alright. 

Lloyd, far too many of our troops were lost or injured for NOTHING!

[Rob85]

I find it funny how the Afghans like to refer to themselves as a warrior people. Personally I see their men and leaders as morally corrupt and will capitulate to the taliban the second they are offered a job in the taliban government. I think in reality if the coalition had went in with the intent of totally destroying the taliban in a ruthless total war fashion then it might not have now come to this. But no they let their main leadership clear off to Pakistan (who also have a lot to answer for for hosting them without repercussion)

It won't be long before the atrocities start and the bleeding hearts start asking why the western powers aren't doing anything to help....remember how they done this when Syria kicked off? I think if the taliban start to threaten the capital a task force will be sent. Then the same bleeding hearts will be whinging about us being involved in the war again.

 

[clangerman]

complete disgrace not only a waste of british lives but now like rats we are is going to leave those we employed there to be slaughtered talk about stabbed in the back 

[harrycatcat1]

2 hours ago, Cosmicblue said:

Before the west got involved the Russians spent a while there I recall.

I've just been racking my memory, what did they used to call the rebels in those days?

"Muja hadin" something or other, are they still about as a faction?

[CountryBoyTweed]

I fear that the large western democracies have brokered a "deal" with the Taliban. There was talk during the Trump administration of something to that effect, to facilitate the troop withdrawal on the condition that the Taliban dealt with extremist groups such as ISIS and continued "cooperating" in national peace talks. Sounds like they've essentially been given the power do to as they please.. 'the lesser of two evils' (arks back to the Saddam Hussain era..)? 

That part of the world has always been tribal in terms of the amount of little factions all trying to seize power for themselves. I think it's time the neighbouring super powers stepped in to take control and the west stayed well away. Like it or not every time that part of the world has seen stability, there's been someone unsavoury running the country. 

I'm not sure I'd go as far as saying that the last 20 years have been wasted, Afghanistan has had a taste of the western world, society has changed, women are entitled to an education and they've had a injection of 21st century infrastructure. I guess the question is will the Taliban take the country forwards or backwards? We'll have to wait and see..

[chrisjpainter]

1 minute ago, harrycatcat1 said:

I've just been racking my memory, what did they used to call the rebels in those days?

"Muja hadin" something or other, are they still about as a faction?

The Mujahideen is more a generic term than a name for specifically Afghanistan rebels. It basically means 'those engaged in Jihad' - so any Muslim soldier could think of himself as of the mujahideen if they're engaged in a 'holy war'. It came to Western awareness because it was what the Taleban went by whilst fighting the Russians with US weapons in the late 80's - they saw defeating the Communists as a matter not about defending territory specifically, but defending Islam. They wanted Afghanistan to be under strict Islamic rule - hence why they're still fighting now, even though they're attacking Afghanistan's own government, as they see them as betrayers of the true faith.

It's a case of 'meet the new boss, same as the old boss'. In effect it's just the Taleban.

[oowee]

10 minutes ago, CountryBoyTweed said:

 

I'm not sure I'd go as far as saying that the last 20 years have been wasted, Afghanistan has had a taste of the western world, society has changed, women are entitled to an education and they've had a injection of 21st century infrastructure. I guess the question is will the Taliban take the country forwards or backwards? We'll have to wait and see..

This for me. Raising expectations and growing confidence takes time and unfortunately the west does not have the commitment to make it happen.

We could stabalise the country, it would take a long time. Do it once, do it properly. Leave it to degenerate into a lawless state and we will revisit the problem further down the line. Alternatively the problem will revisit the West. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

19 minutes ago, CountryBoyTweed said:

I'm not sure I'd go as far as saying that the last 20 years have been wasted, Afghanistan has had a taste of the western world, society has changed, women are entitled to an education and they've had a injection of 21st century infrastructure. I guess the question is will the Taliban take the country forwards or backwards? We'll have to wait and see..

Really?

I think we already know the answer to that one.

[chrisjpainter]

Just now, oowee said:

This for me. Raising expectations and growing confidence takes time and unfortunately the west does not have the commitment to make it happen.

We could stabalise the country, it would take a long time. Do it once, do it properly. Leave it to degenerate into a lawless state and we will revisit the problem further down the line. Alternatively the problem will revisit the West. 

Yup. It felt like US and UK tried to treat it like a strategy game like Red Alert or something. 'We'll destroy their base and that'll be that.' The moment it became obvious that there was never going to be a voice that said 'Mission Accomplished!' it wall became horrendously complicated, but there was no full force commitment across all facets. It was a half hearted military strategy, with now political or geographical plan at all. 

IF any foreign power tries again, it should do the job properly, not some half hearted attempt where you try and do the minimum possible. It'd also need geographical collusion - which means co-operation with Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan and...Iran. Yeah that looks a tough sell

[harrycatcat1]

39 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

The Mujahideen is more a generic term than a name for specifically Afghanistan rebels. It basically means 'those engaged in Jihad' - so any Muslim soldier could think of himself as of the mujahideen if they're engaged in a 'holy war'. It came to Western awareness because it was what the Taleban went by whilst fighting the Russians with US weapons in the late 80's - they saw defeating the Communists as a matter not about defending territory specifically, but defending Islam. They wanted Afghanistan to be under strict Islamic rule - hence why they're still fighting now, even though they're attacking Afghanistan's own government, as they see them as betrayers of the true faith.

It's a case of 'meet the new boss, same as the old boss'. In effect it's just the Taleban.

Thanks 👍

[ditchman]

So Jonny Rambo got it all wrong !.........i thought that film was a documentary co-starring Alex Crawford as well....still i liked the helicopter bit

[Scully]

It will never change, because they are indoctrinated into a blinkered religious cult from the moment of birth. They may be living in the 21st century but their mindset hasn’t progressed any further than the dark ages. 

[Yellow Bear]

2 minutes ago, Scully said:

It will never change, because they are indoctrinated into a blinkered religious cult from the moment of birth. They may be living in the 21st century but their mindset hasn’t progressed any further than the dark ages. 

And I suspect another Iranian proxy war.

[ditchman]

i know it sounds calous but i dont care what happens...if it stays in their own country...............my worry is that it will become yet another breeding ground for the export of terrosism........

and we all know how that ends up ..dont we ?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

600 troops to go and assist Brits to get out! 

[Mice!]

3 hours ago, chrisjpainter said:

IF any foreign power tries again, it should do the job properly, not some half hearted attempt where you try and do the minimum possible. It'd also need geographical collusion - which means co-operation with Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan and...Iran. Yeah that looks a tough sell

It will never happen,  you would have to eradicate everyone to do the job properly,  the Russians tried and failed,  so there is no chance of anyone else doing it whilst playing by the rules. 

It doesn't matter how far back you go, except Genghis Khan everyone has failed in Afghanistan,  that's why its known as the graveyard of Empires.

3 hours ago, oowee said:

This for me. Raising expectations and growing confidence takes time and unfortunately the west does not have the commitment to make it happen.

We could stabalise the country, it would take a long time. Do it once, do it properly. Leave it to degenerate into a lawless state and we will revisit the problem further down the line. Alternatively the problem will revisit the West. 

Problem is it's been tried, many soldiers have died from many countries and as soon as things seem to settle and soldiers go home it's back to square one. 

Have a watch of the film outpost,  the west will never tame Afghanistan.