Advice needed on special needs and shooting.

[mel b3]

Hiya guys.

It's a bit of a funny one , and I didn't know what section to put it in , or who else to ask in all honesty , so if Im in the wrong place mods , please feel free to chuck me somewhere else.

At the weekend,  we had a few friends and relatives at the woodland,  it was just for a bbq , and a bit of target shooting,  and a few clays.

I was asked if it was ok if the sixteen year old son of one of the guests could tag along , obviously I said the more the merrier , just as long as he's sensible,  as he'd be around guns.

Anyway , the guests arrived , and the 16 year old lad with his hood up just nodded in my general direction ( as 16 year old lads do) , he sat quietly with his hood up , and making no eye contact ,as the rest of us were chatting and laughing and eating , until we started shooting targets . He'd never been around guns before , but he listened intently to my little safety talk , asked a thousand questions , and took instruction really well . We spent a couple of hours just generally talking guns and shooting , targets , pest control etc.  I'd noticed his mom watching us , and me being a bit paranoid about guns and shooting, thought that she probably wasn't too happy about her son getting interested in guns , but I couldn't have been more wrong .  When the lad popped off to use the loo , his mom explained that her son has special needs , he goes to a special needs school , has never had a single friend , and spends all of his time sitting in front of his TV alone in his room , he speaks to nobody outside of the family , and then it's only yes and no answers , she had tears in her eyes as she explained that she has never seen him so animated . He collected all of the empties , and is counting them over and over daily  , and hasn't stopped talking about it to his mom and brothers .

Fast forward a couple of days , and I've been asked if he can come shooting again , obviously I'm more than happy for him to come shooting,  but , I have zero experience of dealing with anyone with special needs . I said of course he can come , he can set up his own target layout in the woodland  , and shoot as much as he likes , that's when I realised that it's not like dealing with your average teenager ( gIving him a Chinese burn when he misses,  won't cut the mustard) ,  and it might only take a wrong word from me , to really mess things up.

So , is their anyone here that can give me a crash course in how to move forward ?. I'm OK on the legal side of things , it's the special needs that concern me , as I'm the master of getting things wrong.

I should also add . The lads dad has been suffering with early onset dementia , he's been in a care home for a while now , and although the family visit him regularly,  he no longer remembers any of them , and isn't expected to be here much longer  . I can't begin to imagine how the young last must be feeling,  and I really don't want to make things worse.

Thankyou in advance for any advice guys 👍.

Edited September 8, 2021 by mel b3

[scouser]

Well done you for taking time with the young man, obviously if he’s handling a gun stick very very close .

[discobob]

Be yourself Mel, you have already successfully engaged with the lad however ensure that you do as Scouser says - just until you can confirm that he hasn't got a streak of cruelty in him that will cause him to do anything untoward.

Try to engage him on wildlife as well - with the wider conservation viewpoint that a lot of "civilians" don't realize that shooters have.

A lot of special needs I feel is just that the right way hasn't been found to engage with the individual - perhaps you have and you will bring him out to be able to interact with the wider public and could be a major turning point in his life

[Rob85]

As a parent of special needs (autism) kids myself, I would suggest that you will want to set up nice easy targets to start with, something you are sure he will hit. Reactive targets would be good as well as it gives them an extra reward as well as the satisfaction of hitting the target. What will he be shooting with?

Did his parents define what his needs are in regards "special needs"

[ditchman]

cant advise you..........but what i will say..........we had a kid like that in the village we nicnamed him little joe,.......he was a PIA...and very distructive.......time goes on and he is now a real valued member of society ....and what does he do ?

he works full time in a care home........

people change................you could have a long term project on you hands but ......people change

[HantsRob]

I have special needs children, and I can't say how happy your post made me that you're trying, and trying to learn what to do.

 

Special needs kids are very very easy to deal with. See what THEIR rulebook is on how to learn, and cater to that. Be honest and clear, and have a safe word for "stop". One that they know means stop, but is a magic shooting word! This way it's a special word that they know means "danger, safety issue, freeze" or similar. 

 

Explain, let them be a sponge. It's obvious he's receptive to everything you've said so far, you already have crossed the impossible hurdle of trust and listening. Look into a few things like some kids if you say "look at me when I talk to you" may mean they look at you intensely, but aren't actually listening. Don't be put off with bad eye contact etc.

Bonding over fixed rules. Remember if you say "you only carry the gun like this" don't be surprised with a potentially sarcastic sounding "you can't carry it over your shoulder". So sometimes if you are talking about carrying, go through "allowed" and "never".

It really does sound like you're doing everything great. You are allowed to make a mistake, just have a safety word as an absolute. Practice with it but explain you will practice, and REWARD with good praise for when they do it right. Just make sure it's not a common word at a shooting ground! Something like 'watermelons' so it can't be confused.

 

You really are doing great. Kudos and respect.

[chrisjpainter]

This is a tricky one to answer without know what kind of 'special needs' we're talking about. But there are some basic things that will help. Let his body language guide you. So, he doesn't like eye contact? don't use it either. If he's autistic spectrum it's threatening and confusing for him and you don't need it to communicate, so avoid it if you can. He may also prefer you not to stand directly in front of him, so it could help to keep to the side and give him the personal space he feels comfortable with. 

Keep instructions and conversation one dimensional. Using metaphors and abstract language might not help, because if he only applies things literally, you're going to confuse him. It sounds like he's got good understanding ability, so it's not as if when you say 'knock yourself out' as in 'go for it' he'll literally try and knock himself out (that happens...) but he might not process what you really mean and why you say it like that. 

Be prepared for questions, questions, questions, questions. He might not be able to figure things out for himself on really basic things if they require many simple stages, because that takes the ability to think abstractly without seeing it in front of you. Having said that, he is by the sounds of it really attentive, so will learn fast, even if you have to talk and walk through everything slowly.

You might find conversations get stuck on one particular subject. If it's something he knows something about, then that is a safety net for him. He's in a world that he understands and makes him feel comfortable. So you might find you're going back to, say video games or football constantly, long after you might have expected the topic to dry up. That's fine. Be prepared to ask questions. You'll make him feel confident and accepted if you ask questions. 

This isn't the case with every special needs person (like I said it depends what it is) but something to be aware of is there can be a fascination with...unpleasant things, particularly bodily functions, injury etc. Conversation taboos don't necessarily exist for some people with things like Asberger's. If you can, avoid using language that might steer you down that path - however unintended - with the use of idioms! 

The key is patience, patience, patience. Go in with no expectations - NOT low expectations - and take your time with him. He might know nothing, but be very quick to learn. Or you find you do the same drills over and over again. As HanstRob says, get your safety talk as immutable and easily repeated and demonstrated. If there's a pattern to how things are done, it sounds like he'll nail it and never forget it - to the point of talking it through on each stage! It's all part of creating a world that doesn't have variables that he can't/doesn't have to adapt to.

You've done a great job so far. Do it all again.

[mel b3]

47 minutes ago, scouser said:

Well done you for taking time with the young man, obviously if he’s handling a gun stick very very close .

We were side by side the entire time(I'm always the same with a shooting newbie) , but to be honest , he completely absorbed every tiny little thing that I said to him , and for a first timer , he was very very good.

33 minutes ago, discobob said:

Be yourself Mel, you have already successfully engaged with the lad however ensure that you do as Scouser says - just until you can confirm that he hasn't got a streak of cruelty in him that will cause him to do anything untoward.

Try to engage him on wildlife as well - with the wider conservation viewpoint that a lot of "civilians" don't realize that shooters have.

A lot of special needs I feel is just that the right way hasn't been found to engage with the individual - perhaps you have and you will bring him out to be able to interact with the wider public and could be a major turning point in his life

I seemed to engage with him very well , unfortunately it was completely by accident.  I completely miss read any sign of special needs , and wrongly assumed that he was a typical sulky teenager, but that may have been a better way to interact with him , than if I'd known of any issues,  as I probably would have behaved differently. He was full of shooting related questions,  and seemed to have a good understanding of why I shoot nothing but magpies and squirrels in my woodland.

25 minutes ago, Rob85 said:

As a parent of special needs (autism) kids myself, I would suggest that you will want to set up nice easy targets to start with, something you are sure he will hit. Reactive targets would be good as well as it gives them an extra reward as well as the satisfaction of hitting the target. What will he be shooting with?

Did his parents define what his needs are in regards "special needs"

Thankyou for the input Rob. A bit of real life advice is what I could do with before I take him again , as I'm acutely aware that I could mess things right up. He's had a rough start , and doesn't need me making things worse.

We used , airgun , shotgun ,and rimfire , and to be honest,  he was past the easy target stage within minutes( he had a far greater capacity for absorbing information than the adults in attendance ) . Rimfire was probably his favourite,  and asked all of the relevant questions about where the lead went after it had hit the target etc (I know people that have been shooting for years , and still haven’t asked that question ).

I didn't have time to really speak to his mom , other than what she told me whilst he wasn't there , and as I said earlier,  his dad is in a care home , and won't be coming home. I'll ask my Mrs to get more information from his mom , so that I can be a bit more switched on next time.

23 minutes ago, ditchman said:

cant advise you..........but what i will say..........we had a kid like that in the village we nicnamed him little joe,.......he was a PIA...and very distructive.......time goes on and he is now a real valued member of society ....and what does he do ?

he works full time in a care home........

people change................you could have a long term project on you hands but ......people change

In all honesty , myself , and most of my mates were very similar as youngsters . Some of us found the way through , but sadly , some didn't. 

[WalkedUp]

My friend’s nephew has shot with us for 5/6 years, initially he was a PITA with slight autistic traits and zero common sense. My friend is great with him, I’m a little hard, but the combination seemingly works well and the nephew is now a pleasure to shoot with. He is also doing much better in all areas, school and friends etc. He really looks forward to shooting each weekend, I have taken him out a few times even when my friend cannot make it (though I was concerned about safeguarding in this modern age, especially lamping, so requested that his parents - not uncle - provide a written permission). Through shooting he is exposed to successful, sociable male role models, some good intentioned ribbing and the great outdoors.  This is as big a contrast from being stuck in a bedroom on a virtual world as you can get. 

The only advice I would give is that you learn by watching first. Shooting comes after a long apprenticeship in the field. 

[bruno22rf]

From your first encounter it sounds to me like you already know what you are doing, treat him as you would anybody else bearing in mind anything that could trigger any behavioural problems he may have, his Mother should be able to advise you on this.

[HantsRob]

Sorry, I need to make a correction to my statement.

Whilst you have your safe word for your training, you MUST teach him range safety. Stop still means stop. Any "normal" stop word should mean unmount, break the barrels, and maybe as a discipline always remove carts.

Teach all normal range rules. The safe word is more for your "training" til he "graduates". 

The side note is that if he becomes a family friend and he gets himself into a state of not coping, you can actually use that word in emergencies to help him stop and reset with you. This is NOT to be misused, but may mean if he's getting himself into trouble, you can help. 

Some amazing advice above from everyone! So much autie/special love. ❤️❤️❤️ 

[mel b3]

Thankyou so much for the advice guys , it's a lot to take in , so I'll read through it a couple of times before I reply .

I think I've already realised one thing that I got right , and that was explaining safety. I'm very clear with instructions , and I'm brutally blunt . Some newbies don't seem to like my blunt manner , but in this instance , I think it was probably the right way , unfortunately,  getting it right was accidental , but I'll be a bit more switched on with things next time.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Good on you Mel for taking the time, it might have been nice if you had been warned, but you appear to have coped admirably.

[harrycatcat1]

2 hours ago, mel b3 said:

Thankyou so much for the advice guys , it's a lot to take in , so I'll read through it a couple of times before I reply .

I think I've already realised one thing that I got right , and that was explaining safety. I'm very clear with instructions , and I'm brutally blunt . Some newbies don't seem to like my blunt manner , but in this instance , I think it was probably the right way , unfortunately,  getting it right was accidental , but I'll be a bit more switched on with things next time.

Sounds as though you are doing a very good job 👏

[loriusgarrulus]

3 hours ago, mel b3 said:

Thankyou so much for the advice guys , it's a lot to take in , so I'll read through it a couple of times before I reply .

I think I've already realised one thing that I got right , and that was explaining safety. I'm very clear with instructions , and I'm brutally blunt . Some newbies don't seem to like my blunt manner , but in this instance , I think it was probably the right way , unfortunately,  getting it right was accidental , but I'll be a bit more switched on with things next time.

Nice one Mel. 

I have taken special needs teenagers on work experience for up to 2 weeks at a time. Its very rewarding especially when parents have told me they couldn't get other companies to take them.

[bottletopbill]

Treat him no different is he high or low functioning . Most  Autistic children live in there own bubble you will notice a difference in him as he as shown a interest he may have a short attention span. But both of you will gain something from this they are all unique in there ways so thank you for helping this boy. Remember ask questions from his mum about certain noises and any triggers that may start him off.    

[Jim Neal]

Mel, some great advice given above.  I don't want to devalue any of it as it's obviously given through first hand experience.

However if, when the time comes, you can't remember anything you've been advised then just don't worry.  You did exactly the right thing the first time, so just do the same again.  Your heart is in the right place and your instincts have already guided you correctly.

I think the biggest obstacle in your way is the label placed on the kid of "special needs".  You don't need to acknowledge that label, just treat the lad as any other lad - with respect and trust, but always within reach to correct anything that might be contrary to safety.

Don't over-think it, you'll be fine

[mel b3]

Thank you all once again for the sound advice and pms . 

Reading your messages and advice , has helped a few things drop into place (eye contact etc) . 

My good lady is in touch with the lads mom , so will be making plans to meet up , and ask the relevant questions , in preparation for his next visit .

Thankyou for your generous words guys , but I can honestly claim no credit at all , it was just pure dumb luck on my part that things went as well as they did , however,  thanks to your advice , I'll be a little more switched on next time .  I will of course report back 👍.

Edited September 9, 2021 by mel b3

[Scully]

Good for you. One of my nephews has learning difficulties, special needs, however people want to categorise it, mainly down the autistic route. I often took him on young shots days along with all the other kids I took, and he just took to it like a duck to water. It’s the one to one attention they need, and in some cases desire, as most are left out of the social spectrum unless specifically and actively included, as they are often withdrawn because they don’t know how to act. But once you interact with them they become very enthusiastic and animated. 
Although my nephew would never be capable of being allowed out on his own with a gun, for his own safety…he’s never a danger to others, he really enjoys the occasion. 
Keep at it, you’ll find your feet. 
The hardest thing I find, is keeping up the momentum and the commitment to do it, because if they’re suddenly dropped and overlooked, they can take it very very personally, and the ensuing hurt is awful to see. 
Seriously, good for you. 👍

[ehb102]

Such a lovely post to read. Well done, Mel. You treated this lad as a person, and he responded to it. 

I'm all in favour of accommodating different needs, but it doesn't sound you need to stretch very far, you can be yourself and the young man responds very well. By being straight forward and consistent you will give him a good place in which to take part in the activity. The thing I learned from our local social enterprise is that sometimes the real accommodation is when things don't go well, they have a melt down/don't turn up on time/act rudely/ break rules. The accommodation is forgiving and letting them try again. That obviously needs tempering with guns and safety. 

I love these positive posts. 

[Poor Shot]

Good on you Mel. I've no real advice to offer that hasn't already been given.

There's a lad (I say lad, he's probably in his late thirties) that shoots on one of the clay shoots I attend. With a few months of close monitoring and guidance from the shoots coach he's a good shot and tip top on safety. Even has an SGC and keeps his own guns. 

Would never of had the chance were it not for someone such as yourself, kind enough to spend the time with him and give him the opportunity.

 

[worrall26]

On 08/09/2021 at 11:22, WalkedUp said:

My friend’s nephew has shot with us for 5/6 years, initially he was a PITA with slight autistic traits and zero common sense. My friend is great with him, I’m a little hard, but the combination seemingly works well and the nephew is now a pleasure to shoot with. He is also doing much better in all areas, school and friends etc. He really looks forward to shooting each weekend, I have taken him out a few times even when my friend cannot make it (though I was concerned about safeguarding in this modern age, especially lamping, so requested that his parents - not uncle - provide a written permission). Through shooting he is exposed to successful, sociable male role models, some good intentioned ribbing and the great outdoors.  This is as big a contrast from being stuck in a bedroom on a virtual world as you can get. 

The only advice I would give is that you learn by watching first. Shooting comes after a long apprenticeship in the field. 

 

On 08/09/2021 at 11:22, WalkedUp said:

My friend’s nephew has shot with us for 5/6 years, initially he was a PITA with slight autistic traits and zero common sense. My friend is great with him, I’m a little hard, but the combination seemingly works well and the nephew is now a pleasure to shoot with. He is also doing much better in all areas, school and friends etc. He really looks forward to shooting each weekend, I have taken him out a few times even when my friend cannot make it (though I was concerned about safeguarding in this modern age, especially lamping, so requested that his parents - not uncle - provide a written permission). Through shooting he is exposed to successful, sociable male role models, some good intentioned ribbing and the great outdoors.  This is as big a contrast from being stuck in a bedroom on a virtual world as you can get. 

The only advice I would give is that you learn by watching first. Shooting comes after a long apprenticeship in the field. 

He was hard work in early years.Leave school all of sudden grown up want too earn money. still on learning curve though. Walkedup great mentor. Shotting in his blood now. Lets see if marsh walk on Sat  about 1,5 miles. sure he will **** it.

[Robden]

Now from the other side of the coin.  A guy I shoot with brought his son along to the clay ground, and asked if he could join us, and of course we said yes. When they arrived it was quite apparent that the lad had problems (we wern't told this). To be fair to the father, he did stay by his side all day. But to be honest, everyone else felt a bit nervous. 

On the next visit, the father gave the lad a bit more freedom which seemed okay at first. Until the boy started missing 2 or 3 on the run which made him angry and us, very nervous. After a few more misses, the lad, very calmly broke the gun, removed a cartridge, laid the gun on the ground and announced to his dad that shooting is stupid and he's going to walk home (30 odd miles).  The father apologised to us then went to catch his son to take home.  To be honest, we were all pleased that he had gone.

I'm not looking for right or wrong, it's just the way it played out.

[ehb102]

5 hours ago, Robden said:

Now from the other side of the coin.  A guy I shoot with brought his son along to the clay ground, and asked if he could join us, and of course we said yes. When they arrived it was quite apparent that the lad had problems (we wern't told this). To be fair to the father, he did stay by his side all day. But to be honest, everyone else felt a bit nervous. 

On the next visit, the father gave the lad a bit more freedom which seemed okay at first. Until the boy started missing 2 or 3 on the run which made him angry and us, very nervous. After a few more misses, the lad, very calmly broke the gun, removed a cartridge, laid the gun on the ground and announced to his dad that shooting is stupid and he's going to walk home (30 odd miles).  The father apologised to us then went to catch his son to take home.  To be honest, we were all pleased that he had gone.

I'm not looking for right or wrong, it's just the way it played out.

Angry men throwing a fit because they missed is quite common in Sporting. This young man seems to have better manners than some of the regulars 😄

[Aled]

I've come across this situation before: Where a youngster with special needs gets an introduction to something new and it clicks. One young lad is a very good amateur snooker player, and another a keen pleasure angler. Good on you Mel and best of luck. 

Aled