Putin announces 'military operation' in Ukraine.

[Smokersmith]

I rest my case 🤣

[Smokersmith]

Russia's promise to scale down military operations around Kyiv and northern Ukraine does not represent a ceasefire, Moscow's lead negotiator in talks with Ukraine has said.

"This is not a ceasefire but this is our aspiration, gradually to reach a de-escalation of the conflict at least on these fronts," Vladimir Medinsky said in an interview with the TASS news agency.

So basically doing what they said last week ... concentrating their efforts to the East as they're getting they're *** handed to them by operating on so many fronts.

[oowee]

1 hour ago, Smokersmith said:

Russia's promise to scale down military operations around Kyiv and northern Ukraine does not represent a ceasefire, Moscow's lead negotiator in talks with Ukraine has said.

"This is not a ceasefire but this is our aspiration, gradually to reach a de-escalation of the conflict at least on these fronts," Vladimir Medinsky said in an interview with the TASS news agency.

So basically doing what they said last week ... concentrating their efforts to the East as they're getting they're *** handed to them by operating on so many fronts.

Would anyone care what they said? 

[bluesj]

Funny how russia want to talk now that it looks like they having their ******** handed back to them

[Dave-G]

How much can anyone trust the words of a country that pledged to protect Ukraine if it gave up its nukes several years ago.

[Dougy]

Offering sweets with one hand with a sword in the other, and knowing Putin the sweets are probably laced with novachoc. 

 

i said ages ago, he needs taking out, and must be by his own. 

[oowee]

He can always concentrate on the South and encourage the Ukrainians out into the open. 

[Mice!]

26 minutes ago, Dougy said:

Offering sweets with one hand with a sword in the other, and knowing Putin the sweets are probably laced with novachoc. 

 

i said ages ago, he needs taking out, and must be by his own. 

You wouldn't trust him would you, it sounds more like we're consolidating and regrouping,  then when we have done what we want in the East, we'll focus elsewhere. 

[islandgun]

12 hours ago, derbyduck said:

Perhaps your right , at my age its difficult to recognise a bono ,its usually cramp   

😀

[ordnance]

On 28/03/2022 at 11:33, Rewulf said:

Maybe enter in to some sort of negotiation, instead of butting heads with putin , and telling everyone my big buddy NATO will protect us .
Asking for no fly zones , tanks and boots on the ground is direct escalation, is that the best course of action ?

Should , or would ?
The armed forces would have stood and fought, maybe they would have had some luck and forced them back, but even then , British army mentality was for pitched large scale battles, the sort of thing the nazis did very well at , with good use of armour.
It worked in Poland , France , Holland and Belgium, who all fell in weeks, why would the UK be any different ?

Tougher to crack yes, but once the army and air force were gone , 'NEVER SURRENDER!' Churchill, would have surrendered.
What then, the people carry on and fight with pitchforks and shotguns ?

Yes the UK would have put up a fight and maybe lost, you seem to be saying Ukraine should have put their hands up and surrendered without putting up a fight. 

Quote

Maybe enter in to some sort of negotiation, instead of butting heads with putin , and telling everyone my big buddy NATO will protect us .
Asking for no fly zones , tanks and boots on the ground is direct escalation, is that the best course of action ?

OK so just give in to Russian / Putin bullying and demands, in the hope they would play nice and not invade. Putin sees Ukraine as part of Russia and wanted / wants the annexation of all of Ukraine, no amount of negotiation would have changed that.  As for no fly zones Ukraine asked for that after Russia invaded, so it had nothing to do with Russia's decision to invade. 

Edited March 29, 2022 by ordnance

[Dave-G]

I suspect if NATO/USA takes on Russia: enacts a no fly zone, it will become a long war so China will exploit the fact Merica is fighting 'USSR' (because Belarus will probably openly join in) so does what it wants...

[Rewulf]

13 hours ago, ordnance said:

you seem to be saying Ukraine should have put their hands up and surrendered without putting up a fight. 

I dont 'seem' to be saying anything of the sort, its clear that Ukraine were preparing to do battle, what I am saying , is they thought NATO would help more , and they didnt.
They never got a chance to surrender without a fight , as Russia went straight in for the shock and awe tactic, and didnt pull it off.

13 hours ago, ordnance said:

OK so just give in to Russian / Putin bullying and demands, in the hope they would play nice and not invade

Like I say, we will never know, as thats not what happened, and they got invaded.

13 hours ago, ordnance said:

Putin sees Ukraine as part of Russia and wanted / wants the annexation of all of Ukraine, no amount of negotiation would have changed that. 

What putin wants , and what he gets are 2 different things.

Without levelling Ukraine, hes not getting his own way.

13 hours ago, ordnance said:

As for no fly zones Ukraine asked for that after Russia invaded, so it had nothing to do with Russia's decision to invade. 

Thats not what Im saying.
Asking for no fly zones , is asking for escalation.
Would you be OK with WW3 over Ukraine ?
Because Im not.

[Smokersmith]

22 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Without levelling Ukraine, hes not getting his own way.

I’ve a horrible feeling this is where it’s heading.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

12 hours ago, Dave-G said:

I suspect if NATO/USA takes on Russia: enacts a no fly zone, it will become a long war so China will exploit the fact Merica is fighting 'USSR' (because Belarus will probably openly join in) so does what it wants...

I STRONGLY suspect NATO including the USA will NOT go down the No Fly Zone route.

[Rewulf]

13 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

I’ve a horrible feeling this is where it’s heading.

Both  sides want an exit strategy.
Russia didnt land the hammer blow it thought it could, poor tactics , poor equipment, soldiers whose hearts simply arent in it ?
Lets see what the negotiations come up with, I dont think it will be long before theres a resolution.

The problem at the moment is ceasefires, Russia doesnt want to allow it , as they are pretty sure any ceasefire will just allow a flood of weapons in from the west.
Whatever happens , we are looking at a time of re armament , both in the west , and Russia, as it modernises and re equips.

China is already doing it, and analysing ...

[Scully]

If NATO declare no fly zones, they are then committed to enforce them, the result being escalation. No one in their right mind wants that except perhaps the Ukraines. 
The USA, UK, France, Germany etc etc don’t want that, and rightly so. Nobody has anything to gain from escalation. Think about it. 
Putin will stop only with either the capitulation of Ukraine, or he’s done in by one of his own, but this could drag on for years, as even if Ukraine is defeated the fighting will more than likely go underground.
As history has shown, no nation will tolerate a foreign force in their country for long. 

 

 

[Dave-G]

2 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I STRONGLY suspect NATO including the USA will NOT go down the No Fly Zone route.

Me too. :-)

[ShootingEgg]

4 hours ago, Scully said:

If NATO declare no fly zones, they are then committed to enforce them, the result being escalation. No one in their right mind wants that except perhaps the Ukraines. 
The USA, UK, France, Germany etc etc don’t want that, and rightly so. Nobody has anything to gain from escalation. Think about it. 
Putin will stop only with either the capitulation of Ukraine, or he’s done in by one of his own, but this could drag on for years, as even if Ukraine is defeated the fighting will more than likely go underground.
As history has shown, no nation will tolerate a foreign force in their country for long. 

 

 

Ukraine have to lay down arms, get pummelled to a point of not being able to defend, or as you say Putin is removed from the inside

[bostonmick]

i wonder how many countries have to be devastated by russia before the rest of the world would say enough.providing there is no encroachmdnt into nato territory it seems putin and other murderers can at will kill millions of innocent civilians. 

[Dave-G]

22 minutes ago, bostonmick said:

i wonder how many countries have to be devastated by russia before the rest of the world would say enough.providing there is no encroachmdnt into nato territory it seems putin and other murderers can at will kill millions of innocent civilians. 

Ukraine is getting massive amounts of arms aid - and more. If NATO goes in the chances are quite high that China will assist Russia in a combined effort to smash the USA military might. You might be up for WW3 but most people are not.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Dave-G

[bostonmick]

9 hours ago, Dave-G said:

Ukraine is getting massive amounts of arms aid - and more. If NATO goes in the chances are quite high that China will assist Russia in a combined effort to smash the USA military might. You might be up for WW3 but most people are not.

i never said ww3 but how far do you let these murderers go.where would it end if other leaders of putins type were to invade other non nato countries without fear of reprisals.most people were not as you put it up for ww2 but one man was and that was all it took. 

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, anyone watch BBC 4 last night, Storyville, 1 Ukrainian family in 2014 , having to go through 2 Russian conflicts now safe in Lithuania 

[Dave-G]

1 hour ago, bostonmick said:

i never said ww3 but how far do you let these murderers go.where would it end if other leaders of putins type were to invade other non nato countries without fear of reprisals.most people were not as you put it up for ww2 but one man was and that was all it took. 

If we/NATO troops and heavy armour go in it will almost definitely escalate to WW3. The west - of Europe if you like, and USA fighting Russia and China, likely Belarus too at least. 

We are helping massively by sending several billions in war aid that assists Ukrainian troops to repel russian troops. All that would happen is the destruction of more countries, cities and people would extend and possibly become nuclear or biological. 

Meanwhile there are apparently umpteen British ex servicemen and warriors travelling to bolster Ukraine. Anyone who feels strongly enough to join the Ukrainian forces have joined them already or are enroute.

Take plenty of vitamin D, a warm coat and thermals if you feel so strong that you have to personally put your own boots on the ground but I'd rather not see my sons and grandsons called up to possibly get buried in a war escalation which has been going on in east and southern Ukraine on a smaller scale for several years.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Dave-G

[scouser]

China’s looking at this thinking if putin gets away with it, we can go get Taiwan.

[Scully]

44 minutes ago, scouser said:

China’s looking at this thinking if putin gets away with it, we can go get Taiwan.

I think if China wanted Taiwan there’d be very little anyone could do about it. 
They have already made it very clear that any sanctions against them would not be tolerated.