toxo Posted March 8, 2022 Report Share Posted March 8, 2022 At last I've just heard the phrase "WW3" on politics live. Putin's not stupid, he started this knowing he was in a position of power energy wise and also the western world would do sod all to stop him. Is NATO merely a club where if you're not a member you don't benefit? Should it help Ukraine with boots on the ground? What would happen if it did? Would Putin go nuclear? I don't think so and if the west does nothing will Putin stop there knowing nothing can stop him getting back all of the old USSR that he so wants back? I don't know the details about why Ukraine isn't part of NATO but what's happening now goes beyond all that surely. I say give the ****** an ultimatum AND be prepared to go in. It's the only thing that'll stop him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhastings Posted March 8, 2022 Report Share Posted March 8, 2022 Its a gamble and if it went wrong would be unthinkable. I think we should keep our heads down and on the quiet get our nuclear defences as impregnable as possible if it can be done. Which I suspect it can not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted March 8, 2022 Report Share Posted March 8, 2022 NATO has worked pretty well since the last world war. I believe that the good Russian populace will sort Putin along with the very few in his inner circle. It will take a little time. There are a lot of very angry mothers over there at the moment thanks to mobile phones passing on the truth. The problem being many Russians only listen to the story spread by Putin. The World it is a turning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted March 8, 2022 Report Share Posted March 8, 2022 I also don't think Putin would go nuclear but then again i never thought he would mount a full invasion or that the Ukraine would put up such resistance. Its simply a gamble to big to take. Hopefully a gamble to big to take that Putin believes, should he conquer Ukraine and then look further west. Membership is dependent on a whole host of strategic criteria. A big one for Ukraine being to tackle and deal with corruption. I was hosted in Kiev (around 2008/9) by the head of the Chamber of Commerce (who at the time lived in Milton Keynes). I was collected from the airport as it was considered to dangerous to take a taxi without getting ripped off. The hotel had a booklet advising of likely scams that visitors could expect during their stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted March 8, 2022 Report Share Posted March 8, 2022 QUOTE "I don't know the details about why Ukraine isn't part of NATO but what's happening now goes beyond all that surely" Not in my book it ain't. Would you expect an insurance company to cover the theft of your car if you insure it after its been stolen? ----------------------------------------------------------- NATO 'gang' membership has to be earned by showing a visibly hefty commitment to arms possession and stocks amongst many other things over a broad period of peace time. Calling for permission to join when coming under threat or actual war is not and should not be allowed - otherwise all the other countries who have committed dearly to be in the club need not have bothered. To be fair many NATO members have bent over backwards and then some to provide immense munitions and other help. WW3 would almost certainly commence if NATO aircraft, uniforms and boots go in. The world is not likely to manage WW3 well even if it doesn't go nuclear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted March 8, 2022 Report Share Posted March 8, 2022 Hello, I don't think Putin will go nuclear , but what has shown he is as detestable as Hitler , if you don't like a race of people wipe them out but 21st century way , I would like Poland to give Ukraine fighter jets with guided missiles, just to take out Russian forces, or a no fly zone , I am sure Ukraine has fighter pilots, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 8, 2022 Report Share Posted March 8, 2022 1 hour ago, toxo said: At last I've just heard the phrase "WW3" on politics live. Putin's not stupid, he started this knowing he was in a position of power energy wise and also the western world would do sod all to stop him. Is NATO merely a club where if you're not a member you don't benefit? Yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxo Posted March 8, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2022 We can debate this until the cows come home but for a great many people in the Ukraine this already IS WW3. Sanctioning the Russian money people might have worked to put pressure on Putin if this government hadn't given them time to move the money but then I'd bet a pound to a piece of **** that many of those Russians had British "partners" easing their way in. That's the only reason I can fathom as to why they've given them so much time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted March 8, 2022 Report Share Posted March 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Walker570 said: NATO has worked pretty well since the last world war. I believe that the good Russian populace will sort Putin along with the very few in his inner circle. It will take a little time. There are a lot of very angry mothers over there at the moment thanks to mobile phones passing on the truth. The problem being many Russians only listen to the story spread by Putin. The World it is a turning. My view as well, also i cant imagine that the people of Ukraine are going to take being governed by Russia very well either, civil unrest/disobedience causing a huge financial drain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxo Posted March 8, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2022 It's all very well us talking about this as if it's a game of chess but it's hard to be objective when women and children are being killed as we speak. No one said when the ship was sinking that the women and children couldn't get in the lifeboat unless they were paid up on their lifeboat insurance. Who was it that said something like, "All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to stand by and do nothing"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted March 8, 2022 Report Share Posted March 8, 2022 So … Vlad’s hand hovering over the big red button … ‘you feeling lucky?’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 8, 2022 Report Share Posted March 8, 2022 6 minutes ago, toxo said: It's all very well us talking about this as if it's a game of chess but it's hard to be objective when women and children are being killed as we speak. No one said when the ship was sinking that the women and children couldn't get in the lifeboat unless they were paid up on their lifeboat insurance. Who was it that said something like, "All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to stand by and do nothing"? But you still fail to accept that if a country is not a Member of NATO then NATO countries will not step up to the plate. And a country cannot join NATO when under threat, it has to be done earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel b3 Posted March 8, 2022 Report Share Posted March 8, 2022 4 minutes ago, toxo said: It's all very well us talking about this as if it's a game of chess but it's hard to be objective when women and children are being killed as we speak. No one said when the ship was sinking that the women and children couldn't get in the lifeboat unless they were paid up on their lifeboat insurance. Who was it that said something like, "All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to stand by and do nothing"? The world isn't doing nothing . The world is doing all it can , whilst trying very hard not to make a truly catastrophic situation even worse . It's a truly awful situation for the people of Ukraine , that could be made much worse within hours of nato involvement . The whole situation is heartbreaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted March 8, 2022 Report Share Posted March 8, 2022 31 minutes ago, toxo said: Who was it that said something like, "All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to stand by and do nothing"? must be why we are busy trying to turn the fire into a inferno by supplying arms to cause even more deaths Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted March 8, 2022 Report Share Posted March 8, 2022 2 hours ago, Dave-G said: NATO 'gang' membership has to be earned by showing a visibly hefty commitment to arms purchases from selected/approved arms manufacturers (mostly US ones ) amongst many other things over a broad period of peace time. Calling for permission to join when coming under threat or actual war is not and should not be allowed - otherwise all the other countries who have committed dearly to be in the club need not have bothered. Fixed ! 18 minutes ago, clangerman said: must be why we are busy trying to turn the fire into a inferno by supplying arms to cause even more deaths Yes but theyre Russians , so they are all bad people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 8, 2022 Report Share Posted March 8, 2022 Where were all the outraged people when Pol Pot was killing over a million in Cambodia? Strangely quiet. Idi Amin - quiet again. We are now in the age of armchair experts who demand that something be done, without ever considering the consequences. People say Putin is mad, but they want to back him into a corner where he might end the World. Ukraine is not a NATO member and the rest of the World (bar India, China and the odd country) are doing what they can. It's fine to say Putin wouldn't go nuclear, but where is the guarantee from the Putin / Russia / military experts. So far he has mainly used low level rockets. If he drops a large bomb - non-nuclear - what will the experts demand? If he uses a small nuclear device in Ukraine, what then? The existing sanctions will eventually bite, but at what expense to the Ukraine and the rest of Europe. Fuel / gas, food shortages. How long before the armchair experts are moaning they have no heat, fuel for their car, shortages at the supermarket? As for WW3 having already started - it is laughable. This is yet another war, with the difference being that we seem to care about this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted March 8, 2022 Report Share Posted March 8, 2022 I saw Putin making a sob story speech full of lies to his people today. "There are no conscipts involved" he said, yet the Ukrainians have dozens of them sobbing their hearts out wanting to go home, one on youtube speaking directly to his mother on his mobile phone with permission of hois captors. I suggest Mr Putin ties walking down one of his city streets without an armed guard and see what reception he gets. Russian mothers are not happy. t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted March 8, 2022 Report Share Posted March 8, 2022 Putin must have studied the Tony Blair book on how to tell whoppers and hope to get away with it. Leaders make speeches - ordinary people die. Nothing really changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houseplant Posted March 8, 2022 Report Share Posted March 8, 2022 7 hours ago, toxo said: I say give the ****** an ultimatum AND be prepared to go in. I think that's exactly what he wants, for the west to respond to his provocations. God knows why, maybe to secure his place in history? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted March 8, 2022 Report Share Posted March 8, 2022 Looks like Poland are loaning the jets to the US. Will be interesting to see how Vlad responds to that!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted March 8, 2022 Report Share Posted March 8, 2022 41 minutes ago, Smokersmith said: Looks like Poland are loaning the jets to the US. Will be interesting to see how Vlad responds to that!! It could well be the start to the end of the world as we know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShootingEgg Posted March 8, 2022 Report Share Posted March 8, 2022 About two months ago one of two things should have happened, Ukraine should have been welcomed into NATO and load Ukraine with forces / say NATO would act as a defensive partner to Ukraine and make it known, OR let Putin have donesk and luhansk and go in as peace keepers and move the Ukrainians out into Ukraine and draw a new border But then who knows if either would work.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted March 8, 2022 Report Share Posted March 8, 2022 People and politicians often look back to history and draw the wrong conclusion. Some are saying this is Hitler and Munich in 1938. I'd disagree. It's Stalin and Finland in 1939-40. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted March 8, 2022 Report Share Posted March 8, 2022 Putin, according to sources is living under 12 ft of concrete in a bunker. Is this a life or a man running scared? 2 hours ago, Mungler said: It could well be the start to the end of the world as we know it. yes it easily could Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted March 9, 2022 Report Share Posted March 9, 2022 Apparently US has knocked back the MIGs offer/chicanery - for now at least, seems the correct people in US weren't consulted. It may have been announced in an attempt to twist Biden's arm - but it ought not to have been made public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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