Scully Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 9 hours ago, rbrowning2 said: Would you sooner be dependant on several suppliers in Europe and one in the U.K. for lead shot or China for all your steel shot? I’d rather we were self sufficient, but It doesn’t really matter what we want, it’s out of our hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRINITY Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 Italy seems to be the 'super power' of all things shotguns. I would have thought only when they are forced to use steel that the real innovations will start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 On 16/10/2023 at 20:57, Keith 66 said: What happens to Muzzleloaders? You cant use steel in an original & surely the number in use compared to modern new fangled breechloaders renders their contribution to pollution insignificant, Will they be exempt? Bismuth, that's about it, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 @Conor O'Gormanhow are BASC suggesting we respond to this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bone Posted October 21, 2023 Report Share Posted October 21, 2023 As above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamch Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 There used to be some sensible reasoned debates on this forum. This thread dealing with the most important change to shooting seems to have descended into another BACS bashing exercise and going back into ancient history gripes which are no longer relevant. Wake up and evolve, change etc. You may not like them but they are our biggest and most influential representative body on this topic. Where are the NRA, NSRA, CPSA etc with constructive input? We need to adapt and move on or become dinosaurs like some of the contributors to this thread. Why should small bores, muzzle loaders etc be exempt? Bismuth or other alternative may cost a bit more but surely better to spend a bit more than give up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 17 minutes ago, grahamch said: Bismuth or other alternative may cost a bit more but surely better to spend a bit more than give up? That made me chuckle - 404% qualifying as "a bit more". Think I might ask for a bit more pension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8 shot Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 2 hours ago, grahamch said: Bismuth or other alternative may cost a bit more but surely better to spend a bit more than give up? 🤣 what about the much relied on pigeon/pest shooter. Maybe the farmer will sub him a few £1000 a year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrepin Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 3 hours ago, wymberley said: That made me chuckle - 404% qualifying as "a bit more". Think I might ask for a bit more pension. 404% on a straw baler Sunday mornings takes the cost up to around £100. Quickest way of finishing shooting for the vast majority of shooters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted October 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 On 20/10/2023 at 19:24, Newbie to this said: @Conor O'Gormanhow are BASC suggesting we respond to this? You could state your agreement or disagreement with the revised proposals. Below copy and pasted from BASC website: Lead airgun pellets It is positive news that the previous proposal to restrict the outdoor use of lead airgun pellets has been dropped and there are now no restrictions proposed within the current consultation. BASC pushed hard on this issue, submitting two technical reports to evidence our call for the proposals to be removed. Lead shot for live quarry and target shooting The consultation proposes a ban within five years or less, depending on the consultation outcome. BASC’s position is that clay pigeon shooting with lead shot could continue where grounds have the correct risk measures in place, and they can ensure lead removal, as per the HSE guidance for target shooting with rifles. BASC continues to support the voluntary transition away from lead shot and single use plastics in shotgun ammunition for live quarry shooting. As such, we believe that further regulation is not required in this area. In any case, BASC will be recommending to the HSE that any transition time for cartridges used in live quarry shooting must take into account the world shortage of components due to the war in Ukraine, and the need for manufacturers and assemblers to source new machinery to produce steel cartridges with biodegradable wads. Rifle ammunition for live quarry shooting No restrictions are proposed currently, but this could change depending on consultation outcome. The evidence of secondary poisoning through rifle ammunition is not conclusive and if restrictions were put in place, it would be a precautionary measure. Rifle ammunition for target shooting Under the proposals, the use of lead ammunition could continue at approved ranges where mitigation measures for lead removal are in place, with a two-year grace period allowing alternative ranges to adapt. How to respond to the consultation The online survey form that the HSE has provided for consultation responses contains mostly technical and confusing questions. Instead, you can submit your response via the general comments section at the end of the HSE survey response form. If you would like to write more than the word limit of 2,500 characters then you can upload your comments as a Word document. Click link below to start complete the HSE online response form: https://consultations.hse.gov.uk/crd-reach/lead-in-ammunition/consultation/ More information here: https://basc.org.uk/new-consultation-launched-on-lead-ammunition/ Further information here: https://basc.org.uk/ammunition/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 6 hours ago, grahamch said: Bismuth or other alternative may cost a bit more but surely better to spend a bit more than give up? And there I was thinking I'd not seen much funny today, but now I have. Made me laugh you did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkom Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 8 hours ago, grahamch said: This thread dealing with the most important change to shooting seems to have descended into another BACS bashing exercise and going back into ancient history gripes which are no longer relevant. You completely overlook - with this comment - and you either ignore or are unaware of Bsac policy to pursue a policy which was unacceptable and detrimental to the majority of its membership for the long term. You are suggesting that we just ignore the devious and damaging agenda driven by Swift'n Co+ successive appointees ,just swallow the mantra "biggest pro-shooting body"...and just carry on paying annual subs of ~ £80 (x membership numbers of ? ). Not for me!! Oops ...well, I omit that this outfit has fiddled compulsory membership subscription as part of entry to many wildfowling clubs. If you disregard the BSers historic duplicity and just carry on payin' ... well?...nothin' will change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry2016 Posted October 27, 2023 Report Share Posted October 27, 2023 (edited) On 22/10/2023 at 22:51, harkom said: You completely overlook - with this comment - and you either ignore or are unaware of Bsac policy to pursue a policy which was unacceptable and detrimental to the majority of its membership for the long term. You are suggesting that we just ignore the devious and damaging agenda driven by Swift'n Co+ successive appointees ,just swallow the mantra "biggest pro-shooting body"...and just carry on paying annual subs of ~ £80 (x membership numbers of ? ). Not for me!! Oops ...well, I omit that this outfit has fiddled compulsory membership subscription as part of entry to many wildfowling clubs. If you disregard the BSers historic duplicity and just carry on payin' ... well?...nothin' will change. which was unacceptable and detrimental to the majority of its membership Quite a bold statement, I am interested to know how you know this? Just what damaging agenda do you think is being pushed ? Fiddled compulsory membership ? you are funny, you do not wild fowling clubs have a choice to be members or not? Edited October 27, 2023 by Terry2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor O'Gorman Posted November 2, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2023 @harkom I note that you have not replied to the questions above, yet since these questions were asked of you, in another thread about lead ammunition, you have made further unwarranted comments about BASC. Perhaps you could focus your spare time and poison pen on the HSE consultation if you have not already done so? https://consultations.hse.gov.uk/crd-reach/lead-in-ammunition/consultation/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterHenry Posted November 2, 2023 Report Share Posted November 2, 2023 Responded to the consultation today 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jall25 Posted November 2, 2023 Report Share Posted November 2, 2023 Replied I do wonder if the HSE could / should focus on other things but there we go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yickdaz Posted November 3, 2023 Report Share Posted November 3, 2023 There are such things as steel proofed guns just saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Harris Posted November 3, 2023 Report Share Posted November 3, 2023 Are there any plans to stop the sale of Lead flashing in the Building Trade? Will HSE be removing Lead from Church roofs ? Will the HSE be mining all the extensive Lead deposits from sites excavated since before Roman times that have left Lead contaminated spoil in our communities? Will the HSE be removing all Lead piping that still carries our domestic water supplies ? Just a few questions I would like answered before turning my attention to wiping out the historic British Gun Trade and country sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted November 3, 2023 Report Share Posted November 3, 2023 21 minutes ago, Peter Harris said: Are there any plans to stop the sale of Lead flashing in the Building Trade? Will HSE be removing Lead from Church roofs ? Will the HSE be mining all the extensive Lead deposits from sites excavated since before Roman times that have left Lead contaminated spoil in our communities? Will the HSE be removing all Lead piping that still carries our domestic water supplies ? Just a few questions I would like answered before turning my attention to wiping out the historic British Gun Trade and country sports. I will be using this in my reply to the consultation if you don't mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellors Posted November 3, 2023 Report Share Posted November 3, 2023 15 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said: @harkom I note that you have not replied to the questions above, yet since these questions were asked of you, in another thread about lead ammunition, you have made further unwarranted comments about BASC. Perhaps you could focus your spare time and poison pen on the HSE consultation if you have not already done so? https://consultations.hse.gov.uk/crd-reach/lead-in-ammunition/consultation/ What's the point B. A. S. C. have championed it from the start. It ain't going away now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 3, 2023 Report Share Posted November 3, 2023 On 22/10/2023 at 14:21, grahamch said: Wake up and evolve, change etc. You forgot the other option, give up shooting, which many will do. On 22/10/2023 at 14:21, grahamch said: Why should small bores, muzzle loaders etc be exempt? Bismuth or other alternative may cost a bit more but surely better to spend a bit more than give up? Why should any lead projectile be exempt if that is your argument, ban all lead shot , bullets ect, then we can see a mass exodus from many shooting sports, as there will be no viable ammunition available, or it will be illegal to use. On 22/10/2023 at 20:13, Conor O'Gorman said: BASC’s position is that clay pigeon shooting with lead shot could continue where grounds have the correct risk measures in place, and they can ensure lead removal, as per the HSE guidance for target shooting with rifles. How does one remove lead shot from the average clay ground on a regular basis ? Many incorporate woodland, water features and cover many acres of ground. I cant think of a single clay ground Ive ever been to that would allow such a thing. So please dont make ridiculous and distractive comments like that Conor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrepin Posted November 3, 2023 Report Share Posted November 3, 2023 1 hour ago, Rewulf said: You forgot the other option, give up shooting, which many will do. Why should any lead projectile be exempt if that is your argument, ban all lead shot , bullets ect, then we can see a mass exodus from many shooting sports, as there will be no viable ammunition available, or it will be illegal to use. In fishing when lead was "banned" weights of above 1oz and No 8 shot and below(in size) where not included, nor was any lead in sea fishing banned. It was, like now, designed for the other option, give up. Instead the thinking angler used groups of No 8s together. Lead in shot sizes 8 to 12 is still bought/sold and legally used. I'm waiting for someone who thinks in a different way to tell us the way round the ban. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockybasher Posted November 3, 2023 Report Share Posted November 3, 2023 Responded to the consultation a few minutes ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 3, 2023 Report Share Posted November 3, 2023 8 hours ago, yickdaz said: There are such things as steel proofed guns just saying With the greatest respect ( because it seems like Groundhog Day with this topic ) there is NO difference between a steel shot proofed gun and a nitro proofed gun. Can anyone tell me what the difference is from a manufacturing point of view, or what you can do with a steel shot proofed gun that you can’t with a nitro proofed gun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOXHUNTER1 Posted November 3, 2023 Report Share Posted November 3, 2023 6 hours ago, mellors said: What's the point B. A. S. C. have championed it from the start. It ain't going away now. Yep betrayed us , ironic that they are meant to protect shooting yet they will destroy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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