welsh1 Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, Lloyd90 said: Yes the payment to CEO’s and shareholders is from profits but it just shows the huge shift in priorities from employees, workers are told there’s no money for pay rises whilst those at the top are being paid significantly more. I think you generally find that ceo's get large bonuses because the company is doing well and in general the workers get pay rises, i have said on other threads that i have had 3 pay rises over the last 2 years as our company contiues to grow and do well, Trying to compare what happens in a company run by individuals who put their all into the company to make it grow and prosper with the NHS is mad, there is no individual risk or your house on the line if you fail, in fact there are many instances where failure in the NHS just means you are moved sideways or even promoted, the worst is you "retire" with a full pension. I understand more than most the risk and burden starting a company takes on but it’s gets to a point where it’s just perverse. Especially with public utilities like the water companies as an example. Paying massive bonuses and profits whilst doing an awful job. Again there is no comparrison, they are run for profit, they have shareholders, We all know what would happen if any political party announced that the NHS was going to be run as a company with shareholders, and therin is part of the problem, reform isn't going to happen, money will continue to be thrown at the NHS and it will just get swallowed because it is old and not run efficiently. (I ran my own company for 15 years, my wife had hers for 5) I understand that over the past year or two even the private sector pay rises have been low, but we’re looking at pay erosion over the past 20 years. Everyone is in the same boat, but most don't have that lovely public sector pension to look forward to, and the generous holidays and sick leave the nhs provides, Doctors in particular have a lovely pension scheme. There were many years my wife in the private sector was getting over inflation rises whilst in the public sector we were on a pay freeze or +1-2%. Some will (quite childishly) say, don’t work in the public sector then. I didn’t go into that work based off the financial reward, but I still hold the right to complain when the pay is eroded year after year. Similarly in other fields, and there are plenty who are saying “fair enough” to such childish comments and leaving in droves. What age can you retire? what pension will you get? how much sick leave can you take before you go onto half pay and then no pay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 23 minutes ago, Old Boggy said: Good afternoon John, I know how hard that typing the above must have been for you and you have my utmost respect for putting your words and thoughts down for us to see. Once again, I offer my most sincere condolences and having known Ann, I know that a part of you has now gone. You have many happy memories which I sincerely hope that you can draw some solace from. Like others have said, If there`s anything that I can do, please do not hesitate to ask. Keep strong my friend. Kindest regards, Chris Ditto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 29 minutes ago, welsh1 said: If it’s as good as you say, why are there so many vacancies? Why are they leaving in droves? Why aren’t the public queueing up to leave their private sector jobs and take up the easy life in the public sector? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 12 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said: If it’s as good as you say, why are there so many vacancies? Why are they leaving in droves? Why aren’t the public queueing up to leave their private sector jobs and take up the easy life in the public sector? If it is a bad as you say why do you and your wife still work there? People are not leaving in droves, otherwise the nhs would stop in a few weeks, What does happen is people in the system know how to play the system, a friend who is a nurse retired because insted of working 5-6 days a week she went on bank work and now works 3 days a week doing the same job but for much better pay, but as long as the nhs is happy to pay for these agency nurses then people will leave and work for agencies. Another person i know a plaster tech takes at least 3 months sick a year, she gets full pay for months then half pay for more months and then no pay, starangely she never makes it to no pay before coming back to work. There are many vacancies because it's the biggest employer in europe. Welcome to 2024, Today's headlines "THE NHS IS IN CRISIS", oh hang on wasn't that last year and the year before and the year before and the year before............ you get the picture. Until the model is changed then it will always be in crisis, but no political party has the balls to implement the changes needed, so it will be propped up always on the brink of a crisis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph5172 Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 (edited) Condolences on your loss marshman. I don’t think the civil service type pensions are as gold plated as is imagined. a majority of the final salary related ones stopped a while ago. Employee contributions are often a lot higher than a majority of those in the private sector. there is still a large government employer that has a zero percent employee contribution. whatever way you look at it the NHS cannot continue in its current form but a majority would rather have it that not. When I have needed it it has been there, may be not the best or quickest but there. I have always said if you don’t like it there are many a private hospital to go to. they do need to clamp down on the blatant abuse - oh I have just landed on holiday and have gone into labour. - poor nan has just arrived on her first visit to the uk and discovers she needs an urgent transplant. - poor grandad has also just arrived and has all of a sudden developed a life threatening illness that requires vast amounts of specialist treatment Edited January 3 by ph5172 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKD Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, Old Boggy said: Good afternoon John, I know how hard that typing the above must have been for you and you have my utmost respect for putting your words and thoughts down for us to see. Once again, I offer my most sincere condolences and having known Ann, I know that a part of you has now gone. You have many happy memories which I sincerely hope that you can draw some solace from. Like others have said, If there`s anything that I can do, please do not hesitate to ask. Keep strong my friend. Kindest regards, Chris @marsh man Please accept my deepest condolences on your loss,,,, I read your post with a tear in my eye, and my sentiments match those of Chris OB above. I'm 64 later this year, never been married and only had 3 'partners' , all of them still around, so I can't imagine what you're going through. I do hope you have family and friends to keep you company at this difficult time 🙏 All the very best, JKD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, welsh1 said: If it is a bad as you say why do you and your wife still work there? People are not leaving in droves, otherwise the nhs would stop in a few weeks, What does happen is people in the system know how to play the system, a friend who is a nurse retired because insted of working 5-6 days a week she went on bank work and now works 3 days a week doing the same job but for much better pay, but as long as the nhs is happy to pay for these agency nurses then people will leave and work for agencies. Another person i know a plaster tech takes at least 3 months sick a year, she gets full pay for months then half pay for more months and then no pay, starangely she never makes it to no pay before coming back to work. There are many vacancies because it's the biggest employer in europe. Welcome to 2024, Today's headlines "THE NHS IS IN CRISIS", oh hang on wasn't that last year and the year before and the year before and the year before............ you get the picture. Until the model is changed then it will always be in crisis, but no political party has the balls to implement the changes needed, so it will be propped up always on the brink of a crisis. My wife doesn’t work there she works in the private sector like I said. I work there because I can genuinely help people and get satisfaction but I am regularly asking myself if it’s worth it, as are friends of mine in the NHS, Police, Ambulance etc. Whilst there are some individuals that you appear to be friends with who are abusing the long term sick, I manage a team of 20+ and we don’t have anyone in our team abusing the sickness. Those agency jobs you speak of don’t come with the NHS pension or the sick pay so if people are quitting their current roles to go into agency posts for better money that just shows the brilliant pension ain’t all it’s cracked up to be. (Some) People would rather be better paid now. I imagine she’s already paid in for many years so doesn’t need to add much more. I know many people in private sector who retire from their main role and go back consulting or doing project work 2-3 days a week on good money, it’s no different. You can continue to state what you will but the staff are the biggest resource (and expense) of the NHS and public demand just continues to increase. You won’t get better services by putting in less staff with worse pay/conditions, that’s for certain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7daysinaweek Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 John may I send my most sincere condolences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krico woodcock Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 4 hours ago, marsh man said: Many THANKS for all kind words and it shows we have got a lot of caring members who like me are soft at heart . I thought I was pretty hard and could put up with most things in life but losing my wife have left me a total wreck with tears streaming down my face while I am trying to type this out . We first set our eyes on other in 1959 when we were in the same classroom at senior school , we both left in 63 and went our separate ways and we met up again a few years later when I came out of the R N , we had plenty to talk about and we hit it off right from the start , this carried on for the next three years until we finally tied the knot in 1977 , looking back we had a marriage that most people could only dream of , she was interested in everything I done and came Pigeon shooting with me and for rows out in my gun punts and she thought the world of all the Labradors I had , we lived in our first house 40 years the week we moved and we only decided to move to have a bigger garden , we moved into our present bungalow around 7 years ago and to us it was our ideal home , garden in the front and a fairly big garden at the back and I was only a mile or so from my shooting grounds , we were both contented and very happy with life. The last day we had together was no different from most of our Sundays , one week we shop local and the next week we have a run up to North Norfolk , our last day was shopping local and my routine is taking my dog for a walk down the marsh while she was filling up the shopping trolley , this happened in the two shops we went in and she was fine , we came home and had a cuppa before I done the tea , I forgot what I done but it looked alright and we both sat at the table eating it when she said she had a pain in her side and felt a bit sick , I got her a bowl and she just brought up some water , I told her to go and lay down for an hour which she did , as the night wore on she seemed alright and took one painkiller and I went to bed around 11.30 , a little while later I heard her get out of bed and I asked her where she was going and she said the toilet , I said do you want me to come with you and she said no I will be alright , as it turned out these were the last words we said to each other , she got back into bed and I was beside her with my arm half over her and I remember feeling her arm was cold and I put it under the covers. I woke up around 6.30 and she laid on her side with her eyes half open , I got hold of her hand and kept repeating , wake up Ann , wake up Ann louder and louder and I knew in my mind that our journey in life is finally over after being together for 50 years , this happened on the 4th of December and I have had a terrible Christmas and to make matters worse it would had been her birthday today as there were only six weeks in our ages , at the moment I still cannot believe this is happening but they say think of the good times and we had that many I don't think at the moment it would help , but we will get there as this happen to someone else every day of think so I know what they are going through . Sorry about the gloomy post and thanks for your offers of help and support and I am sorry if I have missed anyone out I am very sorry for your loss MM. May your dear wife rest in peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 If the NHS ‘crisis’ will be solved by paying these Dr’s what they want ( as many seem to suggest by claiming ‘it’s not about the money’ ) then give them it! 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 24 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said: My wife doesn’t work there she works in the private sector like I said. Apologies i misread I work there because I can genuinely help people and get satisfaction but I am regularly asking myself if it’s worth it, as are friends of mine in the NHS, Police, Ambulance etc. And yet you are still there as are all your friends, the grass isn't greener believe me Whilst there are some individuals that you appear to be friends with who are abusing the long term sick, I manage a team of 20+ and we don’t have anyone in our team abusing the sickness. There are 1.27 million working for the nhs, your group of 20 are a miniscule amout to gauge by, but there are statistics that show the nhs have a bigger sickness rate than others, and please don't tell me that is because you are all overstretched and stressed. Those agency jobs you speak of don’t come with the NHS pension or the sick pay so if people are quitting their current roles to go into agency posts for better money that just shows the brilliant pension ain’t all it’s cracked up to be. (Some) People would rather be better paid now. I imagine she’s already paid in for many years so doesn’t need to add much more. No they don't come with a pension, but you can retire early with a nice pension and then do agency work with way better pay, that is exactly what my friend is doing, so she is a statistic of leaving the nhs, and yet works for them in the same role getting paid way more. I know many people in private sector who retire from their main role and go back consulting or doing project work 2-3 days a week on good money, it’s no different. They contributed to their own pension, they didn't have a nice pension scheme like the nhs provides. You can continue to state what you will but the staff are the biggest resource (and expense) of the NHS and public demand just continues to increase. You won’t get better services by putting in less staff with worse pay/conditions, that’s for certain. And you won't get a service that improves without major changes in the way the nhs is structured and run, but as i said there is no political will to do that. The NHS is not the best system, it is far from it and ranks out of the top 10 consistantly in terms of best healthcare and that is because of the way it is structured, if it were a private business it would have been folded long ago, like it or not it must change to survive,close to a third of tax we pay goes to healthcare in the uk and yet we have poor results compared to other countries, and our waiting lists were large, and now thanks to to doctors striking they have increased. I think we will have to agree to disagree on the subject, you are in the system, i am looking from the outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttfjlc Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 Sorry to hear of your loss @Marshman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 The junior doctors are putting out a lot of misleading information and refusing to negotiate. They have not budged one inch from their initial demand and have brought nothing new to the table They keep saying that junior doctors are paid £26,000 a year. This is technically true but hardly the full story That is the basic pay of a first year junior doctor (still at that stage a student) but that doesn't take into account overtime, unsocial hours and weekend working allowance. In addition they get study leave and accommodation allowance. This brings the average pay of a first year junior doctor up to £40,300. That sounds a bit better doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 3 hours ago, ph5172 said: I have always said if you don’t like it there are many a private hospital to go to. Fine, but only if my NI is adjusted accordingly. 7 hours ago, Pushkin said: When they say they are striking for more money and improved working conditions, what exactly do they mean by the latter? More money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udderlyoffroad Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 7 hours ago, Lloyd90 said: I don’t think paying the staff less will solve the problem. Nowhere did I advocate for pay cuts. As for managing the public's expectations; the NHS is definitely doing that. It has all but given up preventative medicine, we don't 'do' bloodwork in this country, or health screening apart from a few of the more common cancers. NHS dentistry is the joke that keeps on being not funny. We don't see GP's because we "don't want to bother them". Meanwhile an army of 'public health' professionals cluck and tut at us, whilst the clinically and morbidly obese never pay any sort of penalty for their poor life choices, indeed they seem to jump the queue because they have 'complex needs' It's a thoroughly depressing place to be, and now doctors are going on strike for 6 days because their union has become militantly political. If you're ill, tough, doncha know there are evil torees underfunding us? On top of everything else, there's now a concerted campaign to legalise euthanasia within this organisation. Great. Might as well fill in my DNR now, wouldn't want to be a burden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 Condolences MM 😕 Im 63 now and in my lifetime have spent 6 months as an inpatient, 3+ years as an outpatient and have have 13 general anesthetic operations. In that time I only met one consultant that due to either pride or not prepared to admit he didn’t know what to do caused me harm, great deal of pain and almost led to me losing an arm. Apart from him I can’t fault the service I have had. God knows where I would be without them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 10 hours ago, shaun4860 said: Condolences MM 😕 Im 63 now and in my lifetime have spent 6 months as an inpatient, 3+ years as an outpatient and have have 13 general anesthetic operations. In that time I only met one consultant that due to either pride or not prepared to admit he didn’t know what to do caused me harm, great deal of pain and almost led to me losing an arm. Apart from him I can’t fault the service I have had. God knows where I would be without them Indeed. Condolences MM. But for the NHS I wouldn't have the ability to post here. 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miserableolgit Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 My sincere condolences MM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted January 4 Author Report Share Posted January 4 22 hours ago, Ttfjlc said: Sorry to hear of your loss @Marshman 6 hours ago, Miserableolgit said: My sincere condolences MM. 6 hours ago, old man said: Indeed. Condolences MM. But for the NHS I wouldn't have the ability to post here. 😀 17 hours ago, shaun4860 said: Condolences MM 😕 Im 63 now and in my lifetime have spent 6 months as an inpatient, 3+ years as an outpatient and have have 13 general anesthetic operations. In that time I only met one consultant that due to either pride or not prepared to admit he didn’t know what to do caused me harm, great deal of pain and almost led to me losing an arm. Apart from him I can’t fault the service I have had. God knows where I would be without them 23 hours ago, Krico woodcock said: I am very sorry for your loss MM. May your dear wife rest in peace. 23 hours ago, 7daysinaweek said: John may I send my most sincere condolences. On 03/01/2024 at 17:03, JKD said: @marsh man Please accept my deepest condolences on your loss,,,, I read your post with a tear in my eye, and my sentiments match those of Chris OB above. I'm 64 later this year, never been married and only had 3 'partners' , all of them still around, so I can't imagine what you're going through. I do hope you have family and friends to keep you company at this difficult time 🙏 All the very best, JKD On 03/01/2024 at 16:02, islandgun said: Ditto On 03/01/2024 at 16:59, ph5172 said: Condolences on your loss marshman. Many THANKS for your messages and offer's of support , Really appreciated. Sorry if I have missed anyone out , certainly not intentional MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandspider Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 (edited) On 03/01/2024 at 14:14, marsh man said: Many THANKS for all kind words and it shows we have got a lot of caring members who like me are soft at heart . I thought I was pretty hard and could put up with most things in life but losing my wife have left me a total wreck with tears streaming down my face while I am trying to type this out . We first set our eyes on other in 1959 when we were in the same classroom at senior school , we both left in 63 and went our separate ways and we met up again a few years later when I came out of the R N , we had plenty to talk about and we hit it off right from the start , this carried on for the next three years until we finally tied the knot in 1977 , looking back we had a marriage that most people could only dream of , she was interested in everything I done and came Pigeon shooting with me and for rows out in my gun punts and she thought the world of all the Labradors I had , we lived in our first house 40 years the week we moved and we only decided to move to have a bigger garden , we moved into our present bungalow around 7 years ago and to us it was our ideal home , garden in the front and a fairly big garden at the back and I was only a mile or so from my shooting grounds , we were both contented and very happy with life. The last day we had together was no different from most of our Sundays , one week we shop local and the next week we have a run up to North Norfolk , our last day was shopping local and my routine is taking my dog for a walk down the marsh while she was filling up the shopping trolley , this happened in the two shops we went in and she was fine , we came home and had a cuppa before I done the tea , I forgot what I done but it looked alright and we both sat at the table eating it when she said she had a pain in her side and felt a bit sick , I got her a bowl and she just brought up some water , I told her to go and lay down for an hour which she did , as the night wore on she seemed alright and took one painkiller and I went to bed around 11.30 , a little while later I heard her get out of bed and I asked her where she was going and she said the toilet , I said do you want me to come with you and she said no I will be alright , as it turned out these were the last words we said to each other , she got back into bed and I was beside her with my arm half over her and I remember feeling her arm was cold and I put it under the covers. I woke up around 6.30 and she laid on her side with her eyes half open , I got hold of her hand and kept repeating , wake up Ann , wake up Ann louder and louder and I knew in my mind that our journey in life is finally over after being together for 50 years , this happened on the 4th of December and I have had a terrible Christmas and to make matters worse it would had been her birthday today as there were only six weeks in our ages , at the moment I still cannot believe this is happening but they say think of the good times and we had that many I don't think at the moment it would help , but we will get there as this happen to someone else every day of think so I know what they are going through . Sorry about the gloomy post and thanks for your offers of help and support and I am sorry if I have missed anyone out That was hard to read, MM. You have my thoughts and my sympathies. Going to hug my wife & children when I get home (even more than usual). Edited January 5 by sandspider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted January 5 Author Report Share Posted January 5 49 minutes ago, sandspider said: That was hard to read, MM. You have my thoughts and my sympathies. Going to hug my wife & children when I get home (even more than usual). Many THANKS sandpiper for your kind words , one regret of mine was not hugging my wife more than I did but there yer go ,you can always say that after the event , but she knew my feelings even though I wasn't the best one to show them . MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muncher Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 MM I’m so sorry for your loss, may she rest in peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted January 5 Author Report Share Posted January 5 17 minutes ago, muncher said: MM I’m so sorry for your loss, may she rest in peace. THANKS muncher . much appreciated MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 condolences mm may you find some comfort in fond memories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted January 5 Author Report Share Posted January 5 2 hours ago, clangerman said: condolences mm may you find some comfort in fond memories Many THANKS and take care Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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