islandgun Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 Didn't a Judge essentially say if you burgle a house that has firearms in it and you get shot then boo hoo for you. Ah found it http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9569359/Expect-to-be-shot-if-you-burgle-gun-owners-judge-warns-criminals.html reading a link connected to your link the Ferrie couple received threats and went to live in Australia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benthejockey Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 Yeah I was thinking about that I know coke will dissolve a tooth pretty quickly surely the acidity in a tank full of pig slurry would dissolve teeth that have been through a pigs digestive system? I reckon I'd risk it and then scrape the sheds out and empty the slurry tank across a few massive fields after a week. Good look finding those partially digested teeth. For the record I haven't got any pigs or slurry tank or slurry tanker to pump the slurry away or any dead bodies lying around nor have I ever shot anyone 😬 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 Yet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 I wouldn't be able to get my gun out of the cabinet quickly enough to shoot anyone if they were in my bedroom because all the other people in my house put so much **** in the cupboard I can hardly get to it. Did this guy have his gun under the bed ? Might be an idea to keep my daughter's 410 handy in case the 'do as you likies ' come knocking in the middle of the night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 Unfortunately in UK the law seems to be down to the Judge on the day, and no government is going to pass a law allowing the defence of your property by any means. You can defend yourself or loved ones already in the UK by any means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 You can defend yourself or loved ones already in the UK by any means. Thought it was any protionate means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 You can defend yourself or loved ones already in the UK by any means. Reasonable force is the wording, but no one will specify what that is, so it is down to the Judge on the day to decide if it was reasonable or not. If you could defend yourself and love ones by any means then why do charges get brought when people do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBeaky Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 Reasonable force is the wording, but no one will specify what that is, so it is down to the Judge on the day to decide if it was reasonable or not. If you could defend yourself and love ones by any means then why do charges get brought when people do? Because it is judged that the defender went beyond "reasonable force". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 If you could defend yourself and love ones by any means then why do charges get brought when people do? If you kill or injure someone defending yourself using whatever comes to hand including a firearm then you will have to show you used responsible force etc, and you might have to do that in court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonk Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 Reasonable, proportionate. So shooting an unarmed toe rag in the back as they run away doesn't count but if they are armed and you are confronted then you've got more of a chance of showing that being reasonable and proportionate towards the danger faced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 Because it is judged that the defender went beyond "reasonable force". If you kill or injure someone defending yourself using whatever comes to hand including a firearm then you will have to show you used responsible force etc, and you might have to do that in court. My comment was in reply to someone saying you can by any means, NOT reasonable force Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted July 26, 2017 Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 I have a friend who was home invaded by 3 blokes about 4am. He is no shrinking violet but got hit by a jemmy bar. It was a serious situation. The problem with all of this is that no one expects to be in a situation like this and as such is totally unprepared. If you are fast asleep and any weapons are locked away, how much disturbance would it take to wake you up and to understand that someone is breaking into your home or something isn't right. Even if you were woken by a noise who would Rush to get a gun, load it up and confront a supposed attacker? My friend and his wife were woken by the dogs barking like mad. She got up to see what they were barking at and she just said. >> Who are you and what are you doing here? The next thing she was thrown back into the room and there were 3 blokes in there with them. I don't believe that anyone would be able to get tooled up and even if they did how many people would really pull the trigger. The thought of further consequences must be a consideration. What shot size would be best for the caravan club members? 12 shot to blind or BB to rip to pieces. I suppose that at about six paces or less it wouldn't make a lot of difference. As far as I can see is the main point is some sort of gate so that even if someone breaks in, the barrier would stop them from getting to you before you have alerted plod and taken steps to get into a secure room and then get tooled up waiting for plod to arrive or if the invaders are determined to get at you to take avoiding resistive action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sha Bu Le Posted July 27, 2017 Report Share Posted July 27, 2017 If a person is allowed to use 'reasonable' force to defend himself/family/friends etc and it is a life or potentially life threatening situation. Then surely in the name of all that's sensible any and all force is reasonable. The law may not see it that way but you/they will have survived and that's all that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Prawn Posted July 27, 2017 Report Share Posted July 27, 2017 If a person is allowed to use 'reasonable' force to defend himself/family/friends etc and it is a life or potentially life threatening situation. Then surely in the name of all that's sensible any and all force is reasonable.The law may not see it that way but you/they will have survived and that's all that matters. Sadly only insofar as to reduce the situation to less than life threatening, if you get out your gun and they say "fair enough sir we'll leave you to it" then anything beyond that would be disproportionate and you'd get done. Similarly if you get your gun and go downstairs to meet them a court may decide you went looking for trouble and could have holed up in your bedroom. I'm not saying the above is right but reasonable force does have to be reasonable in the eyes of the law Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel b3 Posted July 27, 2017 Report Share Posted July 27, 2017 I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
station Posted July 27, 2017 Report Share Posted July 27, 2017 I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six. Never a truer saying - well put. ATB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 The circumstances dictate what you would do. If on my own and I could, and not having the means to do anything about the situation, I'd probably flee. Defending ones loved ones gives little option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 Last week one of my neighbours heard a noise outside at 1.30am and got up to find that his work van was being ransacked by 3 blokes with crowbars, he ran outside and they just said 'do yourself a favour mate and go back indoors' so he did and they carried on , he was completely powerless to do anything other than phone the police . The Police turned up about half an hour later and took some details , he has to replace a load of expensive tools but he is still in one piece . How tempting might it have been to go back indoors and then come out armed and see how much they fancied their chances , although I guess the Judge would say it was premeditated rather than self defence. Also you would only have 2 shots, so assume you manage a left and right on the first two you might have to take the third bloke on in unarmed combat. I live in a fairly quiet pleasant village but the amount of vans that get emptied in the small hours of the morning is ridiculous, a friend of mine has now taken to parking his van in a secure location several miles away and commuting in a beaten up old car every morning to pick it up and go to work, crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 you should be allowed to do that, if you came out with a gun they would run, and you would not have to use it, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted July 28, 2017 Report Share Posted July 28, 2017 if you came out with a gun they would run, and you would not have to use it, Unfortunately this is a very dangerous thing to do. If you draw a weapon you must be prepared to use it and shoot to kill. If you turn out with a gun and they call your bluff, the weapon could be taken from you and used against you and subsequently others. There are lots of these scum who will stand up and not run. Out in America where this sort of scenario is relatively common the advice is to have a safe room and to hold up there until plod arrives or the bad guys try to get in to you at which juncture you have to use any sort of action to protect yourself and family. The downside of this is that the scum have got away with what they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tx4cabbie Posted July 29, 2017 Report Share Posted July 29, 2017 I thought that the law was changed a few years ago that reasonable force would be not taken as that which is reasonable at three pm in a courtroom, but that which is reasonable at 3am in your living room, with your eyes half shut and your minerals hanging out. Honestly I don't think I'd go to the cabinet if i heard noises downstairs, too long to get keys and get it open. Dog would be going garritty, and there's all manner of sharp stuff all over the house, as I make and collect knives , so the axe handle I use to lever the bed up to Hoover under it, which I conveniently keep under the bed, would be first choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted July 29, 2017 Report Share Posted July 29, 2017 I nearly read one of these comments out to the wife the other day, but for once my brain engaged before my mouth?? Imagine telling her about someone waking up to find three blokes in your bedroom then saying off on nights now!! I like to think I can handle myself and look after my family but in that situation other than doing a big, p o o, I cant imagine a good outcome. Scary world out there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted July 29, 2017 Report Share Posted July 29, 2017 I've got a baseball bat that's a present for my nephew, it's still got the ball attached to the end. Keep it safe in my bedroom so I don't forget to give it to him when he comes visit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screamingdead Posted August 24, 2017 Report Share Posted August 24, 2017 A cabinet and shotguns have been stolen from the Ludlow area https://www.westmercia.police.uk/36724 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted August 24, 2017 Report Share Posted August 24, 2017 My friends in Texas are just speechless when they read all of this. Enter someone's home environment there, uninvited, and you would be in serious trouble. Our caravan club friends would probably not last a week out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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