PC Andrew Harper

[Blackpowder]

Just heard on radio 4 that the killers of Andrew Harper have been found not guilty of murder but will be sentenced for manslaughter, the news item also mentioned that jurors were given police protection as attempts had been made by the criminals associated to intimidate members.

 

Blackpowder

[Konnie]

A sad day indeed there seems to be no justice left in this country........sad times indeed feel for his family 

[sam triple]

Absolute disgraceful verdict 

[JohnfromUK]

Jurors threatened - they know the police cannot protect them forever;  the 'families and associates' of he culprits know that they are in effect above the law.

In theory life can be imposed for manslaughter - but I doubt the judge will do that.  It will cost us taxpayers £150K a year to feed and house these individuals in a comfortable prison.

[Pistol p]

These friendly loveable tinkers should get community service for life. On the Catterick firing ranges. Followed by bayonet practice for survivors.

[Wymondley]

A correct verdict, they didn't set out to kill.

A conviction for murder could have been appealed, possibly successfully.

It now remains to be seen whether the sentencing reflects the circumstances of the crime.

25 years each would seem appropriate although they'll likely get 10.

Me, I'd hang them all, but then I'm not a Judge.

[Cawdor118]

5 minutes ago, Wymondley said:

A correct verdict, they didn't set out to kill.

A conviction for murder could have been appealed, possibly successfully.

It now remains to be seen whether the sentencing reflects the circumstances of the crime.

25 years each would seem appropriate although they'll likely get 10.

Me, I'd hang them all, but then I'm not a Judge.

Unfortunately, I think you are bang on. 

[WalkedUp]

33 minutes ago, Wymondley said:

A correct verdict, they didn't set out to kill.

A conviction for murder could have been appealed, possibly successfully.

It now remains to be seen whether the sentencing reflects the circumstances of the crime.

25 years each would seem appropriate although they'll likely get 10.

Me, I'd hang them all, but then I'm not a Judge.

Agree with your analysis and recommendation. 

[JohnfromUK]

Presumably the CPS thought that they could get a guilty verdict, or they wouldn't have allowed the charge.

[grrclark]

Agree with Wymondley.  As much as i would happily watch the driver of that car be set alight, a conviction for murder could potentially be appealed.

I very much hope the judge imposes the maximum with whatever conditions are open to him to keep the scum in jail for as long as possible.

[Fuddster]

If you want to see the defendants having a laugh and joke at the camera check out the DM site-here's the DM report.

Three travellers hug as they are CLEARED of murdering PC, but convicted of manslaughter as his widow weeps in court. The three killers had laughed and joked with each other during the trial and when Long was charged he said he 'didn't give a ****.'

Travellers who dragged officer for a mile behind getaway car as he tried to stop them stealing a quad bike are convicted of manslaughter - as it emerges police had to protect jury from intimidation

PC Andrew Harper, 28, had tried to stop the thieves stealing a quad bike and his ankles were lassoed by the trailing loading strap as the teenagers tried to escape in Sulhamstead, Berkshire.

For over a mile he was towed helplessly behind the Seat Toledo by his feet as the car reached speeds of up to 60mph with driver Henry Long, 19, swerving violently to try and release the stricken officer.

Long and his two friends Albert Bowers and Jessie Cole, both 18, were all accused of murder but convicted only of manslaughter and were seen joyfully embracing each other via a videolink from HMP Belmarsh in London.

Their families cheered as the verdict was announced - but PC Harper's wife Lissie sobbed in court. The three killers had laughed and joked with each other during the trial and when Long was charged he said he 'didn't give a ****.'

Meanwhile it can now be reported that the jury were given special protection by police because detectives believed associates of the defendants were planning to intimidate them

Sentence will be next week.

Article. Daily Mail

My final word-SCUM!

f.

[Scully]

2 hours ago, Wymondley said:

A correct verdict, they didn't set out to kill.

A conviction for murder could have been appealed, possibly successfully.

It now remains to be seen whether the sentencing reflects the circumstances of the crime.

25 years each would seem appropriate although they'll likely get 10.

Me, I'd hang them all, but then I'm not a Judge.

This, unfortunately. 
 

[enfieldspares]

3 hours ago, Wymondley said:

A correct verdict, they didn't set out to kill.

A conviction for murder could have been appealed, possibly successfully.

It now remains to be seen whether the sentencing reflects the circumstances of the crime.

25 years each would seem appropriate although they'll likely get 10.

Me, I'd hang them all, but then I'm not a Judge.

No. There is not a requirement to exclusively specifically "set out to kill". Murder can be proved when death results because of an intention to cause really serious injury. The law says "intention to cause grievous bodily harm". And, yes, unpalatable as it is I agree that a conviction for murder may well have been successfully appealed. Better in that sense that they have been convicted of manslaughter regardless of the bitter taste that somehow they have avoided murder convictions. I think the prosecuting brief wasn't up to the task. The man Long admitted swerving violently. He says to "release" the policeman. That should have been conduct enough to prove intention to cause grievous bodily harm if probed enough.

Edited July 24, 2020 by enfieldspares

[Gordon R]

Justice will be judged by the sentence that they draw. I trust that a long, long stretch will wipe the smirks from their face.

[bwana]

Interested to know what previous these three have,will impact on sentencing.

[enfieldspares]

I'd guess that Long will get a minimum of eighteen years plus additional time for aggravating factors of being the leader in the event that caused severe physical suffering to PC Harper whilst escaping from a planned act of theft that he then tried to conceal by concocting an alibi. But I don't know the effect of the guilty plea as I don't read in the press at what stage that was made. The other two may be a starting point of twelve years plus aggravating factors of the suffering, it being a planned theft from which they were attempting to escape and the alibi and the disposal of their mobile telephones. I think they'll end up with sixteen years each for the two passengers and (after any reduction for the guilty plea) maybe twenty for Long. But as another has said any "previous" may well weigh, rightly, against them. Which is scant real justice at all. It is awful. 

Edited July 24, 2020 by enfieldspares

[redial]

What ever they get won't be long enough.

Such a sad case.

 

[enfieldspares]

18 minutes ago, redial said:

What ever they get won't be long enough.

Such a sad case.

 

Yes. Vermin. I once dated in the early 1990s a girl who was of Jamaican descent who was a barrister. She'd been asked by the A-G of Jamaica if she'd like to go and work there as a prosecutor. I asked her if it bothered her that they still hanged people there. And that she might be the prosecutor in such a case. She was in her late twenties. Her reply I always remember was this "No, it's my job, and besides, they deserve it." 

Edited July 24, 2020 by enfieldspares

[TIGHTCHOKE]

When will this country wake up and review our awful liberal way of doing things.

 

We continually see the victims being treated worse than the perpetrators.

[WalkedUp]

This is just one instance but it is constant. There is an issue of repeat crime in certain communities, not just travellers - when do we decide that enough is enough? 

Three strikes and you are out, third conviction of any crime gives life imprisonment. If the law doesn’t protect its citizens they will take the law into their own hands. 

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, WalkedUp said:

gives life imprisonment

Whilst I don't disagree - prison costs something like £40 - 50K per prisoner per year. 

Personally, I would like prison to be not 'cruel', but definitely 'Spartan' and basic - as opposed to comfortable.  It might not save much money (most of which probably goes on staffing), but might be more of a deterrent.  I have suggested before a two track system; much like now for 1st offence (and remand), but much less comfortable for repeat offenders.

[WalkedUp]

I agree, I’ve posted on here before that if prison for no hopers was very basic and cost effective then we could accept a 5% mortality rate per year.

Prison for detention rather than reform of those on life. A bare blockwork cell, food once a day but no meals (vegetables, bread etc), a hole for a toilet and a drain, 1 steel cup, a single ceiling mounted faucet for water and washing, ducted ventilation, no windows. No visitors or correspondence. Also, on conviction the state should take possession of all their assets in order to offset the living costs. 

[southeastpete]

46 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

I agree, I’ve posted on here before that if prison for no hopers was very basic and cost effective then we could accept a 5% mortality rate per year.

Prison for detention rather than reform of those on life. A bare blockwork cell, food once a day but no meals (vegetables, bread etc), a hole for a toilet and a drain, 1 steel cup, a single ceiling mounted faucet for water and washing, ducted ventilation, no windows. No visitors or correspondence. Also, on conviction the state should take possession of all their assets in order to offset the living costs. 

You’ve got my vote for minister of prisons.

 

i don’t think it was manslaughter personally. Dragging him along at those speeds and flinging him about. That definitely has the potential to kill someone (and did). So whilst they didn’t set out to kill someone, they knowingly took actions that could and did kill someone. If they had never realised they were towing him along then manslaughter perhaps.

[12gauge82]

I think it's another case that highlights just how out of touch our politicians, judges and the criminal justice system is. The very fabric of our society is broken. While the system worries about the rights of terrorists, criminals and racism that doesn't exist. Good people are dragged to their death with their families lives ruined, victims and witnesses cower in their homes while criminals act without fear and some with almost impunity, it's totally backwards and very sad to see.

[chesterse]

4 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I think it's another case that highlights just how out of touch our politicians, judges and the criminal justice system is. The very fabric of our society is broken. While the system worries about the rights of terrorists, criminals and racism that doesn't exist. Good people are dragged to their death with their families lives ruined, victims and witnesses cower in their homes while criminals act without fear and some with almost impunity, it's totally backwards and very sad to see.

Spot on!