hodge911 Posted October 6, 2021 Report Share Posted October 6, 2021 Police worker who issued Plymouth shooter Jake Davison with gun licence investigated for gross misconduct Martin Evans 6 October 2021, 2:19 pm Jake Davison, 22, killed five people with a shotgun before taking his own life Two members of Devon and Cornwall Police staff have been issued with a gross misconduct notice over the decision to grant Plymouth gunman Jake Davison a shotgun licence. The notice was also issued over the later decision to return it to him weeks before he killed five people with a shotgun, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) said. The police watchdog has earlier revealed that Davison had kept his shotgun licence despite admitting assault on two teenagers. The licence was taken from him in December 2020 following the alleged assault last September and it was returned to him in July, weeks before the shooting. It was claimed that he had the shotgun for sports use and had the licence reinstated after he attended an anger management course. The IOPC regional director David Ford said: "Based on the evidence gathered so far, we have now served disciplinary notices on two individuals within the force to advise them their conduct is subject to investigation. "The serving of such notices will be kept under review." Davison, 22, shot and killed five people, including a three-year-old girl and his own mother, before taking his own life in a 12-minute attack on August 12. As well as the coroner's investigation and IOPC inquiry, the National Police Chiefs Council is also looking at the Devon and Cornwall force's firearms policies and procedures. The Government is planning new statutory guidance, including asking doctors to undertake medical checks on anyone applying for a licence and inquiries into social media usage. Davison received mental health support during the coronavirus lockdown and had been in contact with a telephone helpline service in Plymouth run by the Livewell Southwest organisation. Social media usage by Davison suggested an obsession with "incel" culture, meaning "involuntary celibate", as well as an interest in guns and the US. Reports have suggested Davison's mother had been struggling to get help for her son, having become concerned about his mental health Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted October 6, 2021 Report Share Posted October 6, 2021 We will still pay the price, for the police's mistakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 6, 2021 Report Share Posted October 6, 2021 Not sure how that works, doesn’t the buck stop with the Chief of that area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrepin Posted October 6, 2021 Report Share Posted October 6, 2021 40 minutes ago, hodge911 said: as well as an interest in guns and the US. I'm in no way defending his actions at all. But, if we didn't have an interest in "guns" why bother applying for a licence. Surely there are many 1000s of people who have an interest in the US. None of which makes us murderers. Perhaps the journalist doesn't have sufficient command of the English language or is going for sensationalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted October 6, 2021 Report Share Posted October 6, 2021 It really depends on who signed off the licence and how much they checked. If the authorising officer merely signs anything put in front of him / her, then they should be investigated. I learned a harsh lesson at a relatively early age - don't sign off anything you aren't sure about. If you aren't certain - don't sign. If the people doing the firearms checks withheld information from the authorising officer, then that authorising officer would not be culpable and the checkers should carry the can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted October 6, 2021 Report Share Posted October 6, 2021 As Newbie said doesn't matter how was to blame we will be the ones that pay for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted October 6, 2021 Report Share Posted October 6, 2021 Note that they were Police "workers" and not actually Police, lot of them are civilians, our local FEO is a civilian as is my daughter who works in a 999/101 call centre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agriv8 Posted October 6, 2021 Report Share Posted October 6, 2021 Any police or local government officer or police civilian is bound by code of conduct somebody’s work fell bellow the standard that was expected and they are being investigated good ! Fingers crossed lessons will be learnt and this will not be allowed to happen ever again ! Agriv8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted October 6, 2021 Report Share Posted October 6, 2021 Should come as no surprise to anyone that this incident will bring even more regulations upon the law abiding firearms holders even though the issue of this action onto police proves it was a error by individuals in the force not the system as is.totally predictable knee jerk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted October 6, 2021 Report Share Posted October 6, 2021 i wonder what eles can be done, we are hit hard now.it will be a bad knee jerk for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam triple Posted October 6, 2021 Report Share Posted October 6, 2021 4 hours ago, bluesj said: As Newbie said doesn't matter how was to blame we will be the ones that pay for it! Yes the slopey shoulder syndrome will kick in and sh#t only rolls one way …….down hill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigroomboy Posted October 6, 2021 Report Share Posted October 6, 2021 2 hours ago, Agriv8 said: Any police or local government officer or police civilian is bound by code of conduct somebody’s work fell bellow the standard that was expected and they are being investigated good ! Fingers crossed lessons will be learnt and this will not be allowed to happen ever again ! Agriv8 If this was a case of completely failing to do the basics of their job then fair enough. I just hope for those involved this isn't a witch hunt to protect the senior officers by ruining the lives of some low paid civilian staff. You have to remember the licencing system is about managing risk not eliminating it. By giving people access to firearms there will be tragic events like this at some point, it's just a matter of how often. I'm sure we have all seen posts on sites like this where people can't understand not being granted a licence due to previous transgressions or health issues. Should this be a permanent ban or assessed like these people did? I'm just glad I don't have to make those decisions and risk mine and my families livelihood for somebody else's hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted October 6, 2021 Report Share Posted October 6, 2021 there is no risk management or witch hunt here some fool by laziness or stupidity returned a firearm to a nut not only a nut but one who’s own family warned he had problems incompetence doesn’t even come close more like criminal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agriv8 Posted October 6, 2021 Report Share Posted October 6, 2021 22 minutes ago, bigroomboy said: If this was a case of completely failing to do the basics of their job then fair enough. I just hope for those involved this isn't a witch hunt to protect the senior officers by ruining the lives of some low paid civilian staff. You have to remember the licencing system is about managing risk not eliminating it. By giving people access to firearms there will be tragic events like this at some point, it's just a matter of how often. I'm sure we have all seen posts on sites like this where people can't understand not being granted a licence due to previous transgressions or health issues. Should this be a permanent ban or assessed like these people did? I'm just glad I don't have to make those decisions and risk mine and my families livelihood for somebody else's hobby. You Put it a lot better than I did. All we can hope for is the process was not followed in this case I suspect it wasn’t. I hope for our sake they get to the truth and don’t hush it up for 99 years as previously has happened ! Still have the feeling it will be us SHC holders that’s going to pay the price for whatever went wrong. But we have to remember that innocent people were shot ! the gun does not kill it’s the person using it that does ! Agriv8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team tractor Posted October 6, 2021 Report Share Posted October 6, 2021 I’ve already had additional interviews because of this . I lost my guns 2 years ago in feb for an alleged assault. Zero evidence except for her word but I was arrested, bailed for 3 months and had my guns back within 9 months . My feo is truly amazing and has done everything he can to help . I provided mental health assessments off my own back . I was never charged as it never happened and unfortunately as I wasn’t charged they couldn’t check the phones of the corrupt officers in question. my feo rang me to see how I was and then came to my house . He asked about my relationship status etc . Bloody lovely bloke Simon Is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 Ditchie is your FEO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 Seems it's the FEO and the officer that investigated the assault. https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/plymouth-shootings-police-staff-handed-disciplinary-notice-over-gunmans-licence/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve s×s Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 11 hours ago, mossy835 said: i wonder what eles can be done, we are hit hard now.it will be a bad knee jerk for sure. We could always glue our hands to the M 62, seems to be the thing to do😜 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodge911 Posted October 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 My mate has just had a visit from f.a.o ( he is squeaky clean and stick's to the rules completely) they checked all security , serial numbers, cabinets and even counted every round of ammo and shotgun cartridge . Was there for over a hour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) 20 hours ago, Centrepin said: I'm in no way defending his actions at all. But, if we didn't have an interest in "guns" why bother applying for a licence. Surely there are many 1000s of people who have an interest in the US. None of which makes us murderers. Perhaps the journalist doesn't have sufficient command of the English language or is going for sensationalism. I am sure it is for sensationalism. However there is big difference between interest and obsession. I have an interest in shotguns and use them for sporting purposes which is exactly what mine are designed for.some have an interest for game or pest control.however it seems the plymouth killer may have had an interest/obsession to fuel his anger or control mentality. Anyone of good character and who uses their guns only for the purpose of sport or pest control should be allowed to hold folirearms.however anyone who just wants to hoard loads in their bedroom and sit drooling over them never any intention of carrying out any sporting purposes should not.also this person was known to have anger/mental problems so that would on its own be enough for a lifetime ban.while i am sure that someone in the devon force firearms will have some kind of note placed on their file as most of the fao are part time retired it will not be of much consequence to them unlike the law abiding holders who will no doubt have more hurdles to jump just to be able to carry on being responsible shooters. Edited October 7, 2021 by bostonmick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) We don't know anything about the "alleged" assault except he wasn't prosecuted. Assault can mean so many things, at different times and circumstances, including something incredibly minor. Not necessarily what we would think of as an assault, ie a punch No prosecution pulls the rug out from under any decision to take away his shotgun. It means the facts have not been tested in court So actually this could be down to inaction on the part of the CPS rather than the police by deciding not to prosecute? got to keep an open mind on this. He definitely should not have had a shotgun but i have always found FEOs default to no if they have any doubt, so is there more we don't know about? Edited October 7, 2021 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 11 minutes ago, Vince Green said: We don't know anything about the "alleged" assault except he wasn't prosecuted. Assault can mean so many things, at different times and circumstances, including something incredibly minor. Not necessarily what we would think of as an assault, ie a punch No prosecution pulls the rug out from under any decision to take away his shotgun. It means the facts have not been tested in court So actually this could be down to inaction on the part of the CPS rather than the police by deciding not to prosecute? got to keep an open mind on this. He definitely should not have had a shotgun but i have always found FEOs default to no if they have any doubt, so is there more we don't know about? Yep, I would love to hear the story from the two 'scapegoats'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 25 minutes ago, Vince Green said: We don't know anything about the "alleged" assault except he wasn't prosecuted. Assault can mean so many things, at different times and circumstances, including something incredibly minor. Not necessarily what we would think of as an assault, ie a punch A bit of info on that in this video, from non other than Callum from 'English shooting' (I wonder if HE got his guns back?) Anyway, despite his stilted speech , he does raise some valid points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Vince Green said: We don't know anything about the "alleged" assault except he wasn't prosecuted Although we do not know what the assault entailed. We do know he pleaded guilty in the interview. It was then decided that he could do an anger management course, instead of being cautioned/charged. We also know that the firearms team were not informed of the assault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 52 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: Although we do not know what the assault entailed. We do know he pleaded guilty in the interview. It was then decided that he could do an anger management course, instead of being cautioned/charged. We also know that the firearms team were not informed of the assault. There lies the point, he cant plead guilty to anything in an interview, he can just admit that whatever it is said happened did take place. But without a court case to decide whether that constituted an assault or not in the eyes of the law it goes nowhere. I suspect that what ever happen probably wasn't a physical altercation or he would have been charged. Either that or the victims, for reasons of their own, wouldn't press charges. Maybe maybe maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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