Another school shooting in America

[Westley]

Unfortunately, the more serious 'incidents'  in this Country, have involved legally held weapons  !

[Newbie to this]

Unfortunately most, if not all, were failures of the police, but we pay the price.

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Westley said:

Unfortunately, the more serious 'incidents'  in this Country, have involved legally held weapons  !

I know what you mean, but which is the ‘more serious’, an incident in which 20 school children are killed or an accumulation of over 100 isolated incidents of black kids killing each other? 
Is a road traffic accident with 10 fatalities ‘more serious’ than 10 road traffic incidents of 1 fatality? 
Is it all just a matter of numbers? 

[Jaymo]

3 hours ago, marsh man said:

Not sure on your question oowee , but they did say , there are more guns in America than people , I can well believe that , 

It was quoted as there being more than 400 million firearms in circulation in the States. 

[ditchman]

9 minutes ago, Jaymo said:

It was quoted as there being more than 400 million firearms in circulation in the States. 

that would be errr registered.......ones.....what about the unregistered ones.........banning hand guns would be like emptying a reservoir with a tea spoon...aint going to happen

[The Heron]

Can someone explain the American obsession with home defense is it such an awful place to live that you need to keep your doors locked and fill your house with guns. 

[holloway]

7 hours ago, Rewulf said:

As Ive already mentioned, they are NOT assault rifles !
They are semi auto .223 rifles, the fact that they are black and have big magazines, makes them no more lethal than a bolt action .223 , which 18 year olds can buy in this country pending checks and 'reason' , yet legally held firearm crime is virtually non existent.
Like I say , its the mentality and culture over there that is at fault, try some areas of London or Birmingham , they have a similar mentality and culture, and shoot and stab each other on a nightly basis.
Switch  Radio 1 on an evening, and listen to some of the rap and drill lyrics this 'premier' station champions, its invariably about gang violence 'respekt' and treating women as 'hoes'
This is the example we are setting here, and in the states its even worse.

If they cant get rid of the guns , at least get rid of the idea that there is no chance for young people, unless they are constantly fighting against injustices that often dont exist, whilst modelling themselves on some fantasy character theyve seen on TV.

What you say makes sense , sadly I can only see it getting worse.. 

[Westley]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

I know what you mean, but which is the ‘more serious’, an incident in which 20 school children are killed or an accumulation of over 100 isolated incidents of black kids killing each other? 
Is a road traffic accident with 10 fatalities ‘more serious’ than 10 road traffic incidents of 1 fatality? 
Is it all just a matter of numbers? 

Of course it is, BUT shooters are an easy target for any course of action that the Government feel will appease the general public. The lead shot debacle, the seizing of innocent shooters guns by Poice Forces desperate to cover their failings, all of these things are far easier to carry out than stopping teens from stabbing each other.

[Houseplant]

2 hours ago, The Heron said:

Can someone explain the American obsession with home defense is it such an awful place to live that you need to keep your doors locked and fill your house with guns. 

It's somewhat ingrained in the national psyche of what was once a frontier country and secondly, there is a principle of self-defence and protection of property, even at the expense of loss of life of the perpetrator of a crime. Ironically, large parts of the USA are very safe and pleasant places to live. Then there is the Second Amendment which allows citizens to bear arms in order to resist oppression by their own government. Interestingly, based on English common law.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Houseplant

[udderlyoffroad]

11 hours ago, The Heron said:

Can someone explain the American obsession with home defense is it such an awful place to live that you need to keep your doors locked and fill your house with guns.

I take it you leave your front door unlocked then?

Scumbags are a universal problem, and there are ever fewer places in the world where an appropriate response won't see you before a judge.

Nonetheless, every time I visit the US I feel a damn site safer than I do in a lot of UK cities.  Noticeably fewer blocks of 'Merkel Lego' cluttering up the place, too.

As for school shootings...

Pretty much covers it.

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by udderlyoffroad

[Cosmicblue]

Its an American stupidity issue without a solution, sadly.  Let's not forget nearly half of them voted for Trumpy who was clearly a couple of pallets short of a full load - oh yes and its the Republicans that love the crazy lack of firearms legislation.

 

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, Cosmicblue said:

oh yes and its the Republicans that love the crazy lack of firearms legislation.

 

That's why it was the first thing the Democrats did when Biden won 

The fact is, neither will do anything, because it is political suicide at best, or mass civil unrest with more death at worst. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Newbie to this

[bluesj]

19 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

That's why it was the first thing the Democrats did when Biden won 

The fact is neither will do anything, because it is political suicide at best, or mass civil unrest with more death at worst. 

They could spend a little bit of the money they are spending on guns for the Ukrainian people on a security person at each school, after all they have them at banks and anywhere there are politicians. 

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Pretty much covers it.

You could add a bit of bullying to the mix, a high school hierarchy that crushes those that dont 'fit' and the simmering resentment and hatred resulting from it.

The Columbine shooters were very clear that this was their main reason for that mass shooting.
But the narrative is that they were deranged, and there was nothing wrong with the school system.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2004/04/at-last-we-know-why-the-columbine-killers-did-it.html

1 hour ago, Cosmicblue said:

Its an American stupidity issue without a solution, sadly.  Let's not forget nearly half of them voted for Trumpy who was clearly a couple of pallets short of a full load - oh yes and its the Republicans that love the crazy lack of firearms legislation.

Apparently over half of them voted for Biden, whos mental capacity is clearly superior to Trumps 
You cant blame the American people for gun crime, mass shootings or their mentality, they are a people wholly manipulated by advertising and media.
If the advert tells them they need 5 handguns and 3 ARs , they will go out and buy them.
Even the liberals are buying guns now, because the man on the news told them they need to .

1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Rewulf

[ditchman]

13 hours ago, Houseplant said:

It's somewhat ingrained in the national psyche of what was once a frontier country and secondly, there is a principle of self-defence and protection of property, even at the expense of loss of life of the perpetrator of a crime. Ironically, large parts of the USA are very safe and pleasant places to live. Then there is the Second Amendment which allows citizens to bear arms in order to resist oppression by their own government. Interestingly, based on English common law.

this i believe so im told is where the problem is............"the right to bear arms"..........lawyers...look at this wording different on both sides of the pond.......where it was written in England it is interperated as the peoples right to form a militia against oppression

in the US it is interperated as peoples right to carry a weapon

what is also confusing it is only until quite recently leagal for an MP to carry a weapon of his choice in Parliament....  

[udderlyoffroad]

22 hours ago, Cosmicblue said:

Its an American stupidity issue without a solution, sadly.  Let's not forget nearly half of them voted for Trumpy who was clearly a couple of pallets short of a full load - oh yes and its the Republicans that love the crazy lack of firearms legislation.

And Biden is...what precisely?

Back on topic: Now seems as though the police pitched up and did....nothing.   For an hour.  Let him carry on slaughtering. Just what the hell is going on?

 

[oldypigeonpopper]

12 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

And Biden is...what precisely?

Back on topic: Now seems as though the police pitched up and did....nothing.   For an hour.  Let him carry on slaughtering. Just what the hell is going on?

 

Hello, it was reported some local citizens wanted to get in the school but stopped by the police, if they have a backlash I can see another police chief resign

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, it was reported some local citizens wanted to get in the school but stopped by the police, if they have a backlash I can see another police chief resign

Just seen this repoted, they apparently handcuffed and pepper sprayed parents trying to get into the school, whilst they (the police) did nothing to end the shooting. The last bit, may just be the distraught parents recollection, but it doesn't look good on the police at the moment.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Newbie to this

[Prospero]

There is something truly rotten at the heart of American culture that allows this kind of incident to happen time and again. It's another copycat of Columbine, the perpetrators were vilified and yet made famous, or infamous, at the same time, some disturbed minorities even made them heroes.

Gun control of some kind really needs to happen, for example being over 25 to buy a gun. All guns stored properly when in the home.

Special circumstances need special measures. God help America.

[enfieldspares]

On 25/05/2022 at 23:11, The Heron said:

Can someone explain the American obsession with home defense is it such an awful place to live that you need to keep your doors locked and fill your house with guns. 

As when it happens the police, just as in the UK, will likely turn up when it is too late. The doctrine that ultimately the only person you can rely on to look after you is you yourself. The "odd" Tony Martin resorted to having an illegal shotgun not through any wish, I am sure, or at least I'd hope so, to actually murder anyone but because he had, to him, a genuine fear that if he suffered another "home invasion" that the police as with the previous times would come too late and he'd be assaulted and injured or killed. It doesn't lessen what he did which is to take another's life but it maybe does explain why Tony Martin felt he needed to arm himself (with the subsequent result).

Edited May 27, 2022 by enfieldspares

[Gordon R]

Quote

Gun control of some kind really needs to happen, for example being over 25 to buy a gun. All guns stored properly when in the home.

Bizarre logic.

[Newbie to this]

31 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

As when it happens the police, just as in the UK, will likely turn up when it is too late. The doctrine that ultimately the only person you can rely on to look after you is you yourself. The "odd" Tony Martin resorted to having an illegal shotgun not through any wish, I am sure, or at least I'd hope so, to actually murder anyone but because he had, to him, a genuine fear that if he suffered another "home invasion" that the police as with the previous times would come too late and he'd be assaulted and injured or killed. It doesn't lessen what he did which is to take another's life but it maybe does explain why Tony Martin felt he needed to arm himself (with the subsequent result).

Absolutely, defending oneself, ones family and ones property, by whatever means necessary, should be a right that everyone has.

On this the USA have it right.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Newbie to this

[enfieldspares]

Florida I am guessing?

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Prospero said:

There is something truly rotten at the heart of American culture that allows this kind of incident to happen time and again. It's another copycat of Columbine, the perpetrators were vilified and yet made famous, or infamous, at the same time, some disturbed minorities even made them heroes.

Gun control of some kind really needs to happen, for example being over 25 to buy a gun. All guns stored properly when in the home.

Special circumstances need special measures. God help America.

What an odd post! 🤷‍♂️

[London Best]

A young man I had only just met, in Arizona, took me into his house to show me his new .22 rifle. He took it from his wardrobe and handed it to me.

Yep!   Full mag and one up the spout.