Disappearing Pubs ?

[marsh man]

I dare say wherever you live you must have noticed some old established pubs have been calling last orders for the last time , it stated in our paper this morning we are losing on average at least one pub a week , some of these have been long established and seen the good and bad days in the past but still managed to carry on trading , now they state it is no longer viable to carry on and calling it a day .

I was brought up in a little village and we had two pubs when you first entered the village and five scattered around the few roads , now the two have gone when you first come into the village and only one left when you come inside , the G Y wildfowling club was formed in the pub on the next road where I used to live , that is now four houses , the meetings were then moved to another on the edge of the village and now that is Pisa house , this is happening throughout the town with no signs of improving .

So how long will it be before a pub become an endangered species and go on the Red list ?  MM

Edited March 3, 2023 by marsh man

[Shadowchaser]

Must admit I'm not much of a pub goer but it is sad to see any business go under and disappear. 

Pubs are dropping like flies around here.  A pub down the main road closed a few weeks ago.  A pub my mates used to frequent in the next town closed in November. 

There is a country road leading one way out of our area along which there used to be three pubs when I was younger. The last one closed last year. 

I used to do a pub crawl with some mates for birthdays and what not. I believe half of those along that route have now gone.

I guess it's a combination of many factors.  People drinking at home more cheaply, rising costs of running a pub, maybe not moving with the times?

Pubs in tourist type places still seem to do well, Oxford, York etc... Then again they can rely on a certain amount of footfall. 

[Raw and wriggley]

I’m trying my best to keep them going around here 😜

[ditchman]

the demise of the pub started with the smoking ban..........in the early 1900's they had what was called a Saloon where you could smoke....but bit by bit that spread......it should have gone back to that.........

i used to love the heady aroma of going into a busy pub that smelt of woodsmoke....cheap and expensive perfumn......cigars and fags...stale and fresh beer..................i felt if i had entered heaven...............

you go in a pub now and it smells of bleach.....and mr muscle spray on polish........

[mossy835]

years ago if you started one end of town here in Taunton Somerset where i live,and have 1/2 pint in each pub you would not make it for the last one you will be to ******.

[Sciurus]

Its the opposite here in the Lake District, if a shop or boat chandlers closes, it becomes another bar! 
My nearest village in Bowness, population 3800 has at the last  count over 20 bars/pubs, that excludes the bars in the many hotels and caravan sites and also excludes the many licensed bistros and restaurants.

Windermere village- less than 1 mile away from Bowness must have over 10 pubs and winebars, plus all the bars in the hotels and bistros. This means I have a choice of over 30 pubs/bars within half a mile walking distance.

In fairness, the traditional pub now does seem to be less popular. The new bars are all neon lights and fluorescent drinks/cocktails at exorbitant prices, which attracts the younger crowd, leaving plenty of room in the pub for old trumps like me!

[marsh man]

7 minutes ago, ditchman said:

the demise of the pub started with the smoking ban..........in the early 1900's they had what was called a Saloon where you could smoke....but bit by bit that spread......it should have gone back to that.........

i used to love the heady aroma of going into a busy pub that smelt of woodsmoke....cheap and expensive perfumn......cigars and fags...stale and fresh beer..................i felt if i had entered heaven...............

you go in a pub now and it smells of bleach.....and mr muscle spray on polish........

It was once stated that we had a pub in the town and surrounding area for every day of the year , 365 in total , the pubs in the past could easily  make a living in the Summer with the holiday trade and then they could tick over in the Winter with the Herring industry and the American air bases  , then when the Herring trade eased off you had the oil industry moved into the town and that provided a lot of trade along with darts teams throughout the Winter , then things started to go downhill and like you say the smoking ban was a nail in the coffin , the pandemic didn't help and now the cost of living and the high price for oil and gas to heat the pubs , the trade have been slowly dying over the last few years and they are now facing a terminal illness .

[JohnfromUK]

27 minutes ago, Shadowchaser said:

Must admit I'm not much of a pub goer but it is sad to see any business go under and disappear.

That would also apply to me.  I'm out in the sticks, and we do have two pubs still in each of the nearby villages and several other nice pubs quite close by - but have never had one in the village in which I live.  They work hard at keeping going and I understand at least two are listed as "Community Assets" by the Council.  Exactly what this means and how it works I'm not quite sure, but it makes it much harder to get planning for any change of use to anything other than a pub.

My problem is that I have to drive (or at least someone does) to do a pub trip, and I don't enjoy a pub trip much when I cannot have a drink when others are.  Whilst I'm not a big drinker, it spoils the outing if you are having to be 'teatotal' for the evening.  My visits therefore - rather than being a 'drop in and have a drink or two' tend to be more planned and 'who is driving' organised in advance etc.  It spoils the spontaneous 'drop in for a drink on the way home' that might otherwise round off a good day.

[Dave at kelton]

21 minutes ago, Sciurus said:

Its the opposite here in the Lake District, if a shop or boat chandlers closes, it becomes another bar! 
My nearest village in Bowness, population 3800 has at the last  count over 20 bars/pubs, that excludes the bars in the many hotels and caravan sites and also excludes the many licensed bistros and restaurants.

Windermere village- less than 1 mile away from Bowness must have over 10 pubs and winebars, plus all the bars in the hotels and bistros. This means I have a choice of over 30 pubs/bars within half a mile walking distance.

In fairness, the traditional pub now does seem to be less popular. The new bars are all neon lights and fluorescent drinks/cocktails at exorbitant prices, which attracts the younger crowd, leaving plenty of room in the pub for old trumps like me!

Well that’s a silly thing to tell them. They’ll all be trying to move up 😂😂😂 neon lights or not!

[Minky]

We used to have two pubs, down to one. It sort of went dormant due to the owner / lack of trade. A new couple have bought it and spent a fortune on it.  Still not a lot of trade and they sort of open and close as they please.  Sort of like a hobby.  It's always been a dead end although it's location is good.  As far as I'm  concerned the sooner it's  bulldozed and a few executive houses put up in its place the better.  Over the years the place has been a pain in the rear.  Or the behaviour of the customers and the General  disruption.  There are the bank holiday dos of the BBQs with clouds of billowing smoke and the dismal dreary folk singer.  So bad that we've  gone out for the day.  There have been cars damaged and stolen by people who have viewed a car parked outside someone's house as a free taxi to get back home and abandoned somewhere.   The General junk thrown in our garden as the throw outs go to where ever they are going,  such as bottles, glasses, paper and plastic, knickers,  condoms.  Cars and bikes racing up and down the road one of which mounted the kerb and knocked the fence down and drove off.  Parked cars being keyed and druggies breaking into cars for anything of value.  Groups of users singing, swearing and just being  unsocial as they go home.  People spewing up or taking a leak on / over the garden fence / gate. Drug dealing etc. The sooner it capsizes and is bulldozed we will hold a BIG party.  Hopefully the cost of living rise will last long enough to see the game up.

[39TDS]

I think the demise of the local is part of the cause of the increase in loutish behaviour. The older guys in the pub kept the youth in check for the most part.

Without that guidance from the older folk in the village the youths are just running riot. A great shame and a great loss to society imo.

Most pubs that I drank in have been knocked down and several houses built in their place.

Edited March 3, 2023 by 39TDS

[billytheghillie]

The pub/hotel in my village closed up about 3 weeks ago. Apparently they did not want the local regulars and were trying to depend on passing trade. 

[Andy H]

In my village the pubs have been dropping steadily , The Lindens was demolished and 12 small houses were built on the land , The Stag and pheasant became a terraced house , The Railway became a Dominoes pizza , The King william became a nepalese eat in , The Bull and mouth became a Hair salon , The Dog and gun became a chinese takeaway , only 2 pubs left and one of those( The waterside), Really is only catering for meals and closes after the last meal is done(by 10pm) , The other one The Swan inn is from the 1600's and should last me out.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Andy H

[armsid]

The oldest pub in Asfordby closed last week Sold to expand local COOP Now left with 1 mostly food no darts team skittles opens at 5  closes after last meal so loses the aft trade Not been good for pubs in the area since lockdown

[enfieldspares]

3 hours ago, marsh man said:

I dare say wherever you live you must have noticed some old established pubs have been calling last orders for the last time , it stated in our paper this morning we are losing on average at least one pub a week , some of these have been long established and seen the good and bad days in the past but still managed to carry on trading , now they state it is no longer viable to carry on and calling it a day .

A lot around where I live...five miles west of Leicester...now close at 10pm and some even don't open much at all in the evening. The staff wages, the heating and if they've a spirits tie* mean make little profit on the drink. 

* A spirits tie is where, like a beer tie, the landlord or landlady has to buy their only spirits from the brewery that owns the pub. Therefore the profits are much less on spirits than if the landlord or landlady could buy the spirits from elsewhere. Thus the now old time description of a "tied house" or if not tied a "free house" as in free of a tie.

Edited March 3, 2023 by enfieldspares

[Jim Neal]

2 hours ago, Minky said:

We used to have two pubs, down to one. It sort of went dormant due to the owner / lack of trade. A new couple have bought it and spent a fortune on it.  Still not a lot of trade and they sort of open and close as they please.  Sort of like a hobby.  It's always been a dead end although it's location is good.  As far as I'm  concerned the sooner it's  bulldozed and a few executive houses put up in its place the better.  Over the years the place has been a pain in the rear.  Or the behaviour of the customers and the General  disruption.  There are the bank holiday dos of the BBQs with clouds of billowing smoke and the dismal dreary folk singer.  So bad that we've  gone out for the day.  There have been cars damaged and stolen by people who have viewed a car parked outside someone's house as a free taxi to get back home and abandoned somewhere.   The General junk thrown in our garden as the throw outs go to where ever they are going,  such as bottles, glasses, paper and plastic, knickers,  condoms.  Cars and bikes racing up and down the road one of which mounted the kerb and knocked the fence down and drove off.  Parked cars being keyed and druggies breaking into cars for anything of value.  Groups of users singing, swearing and just being  unsocial as they go home.  People spewing up or taking a leak on / over the garden fence / gate. Drug dealing etc. The sooner it capsizes and is bulldozed we will hold a BIG party.  Hopefully the cost of living rise will last long enough to see the game up.

Where do you live? Sounds like my sort of night out! 😅

My village had a hotel, 3 pubs, a working mens' club and a cricket club.  The hotel made way for old folks' accomodation at least 30 years ago, probably a lot longer.  The working mens' club went many years ago and is now a spacious house.  One pub finally went about 6 years ago, after a period of quite a few years when it would open briefly then close for weeks/months. 

The cricket club will hang on just fine I think, it's got its niche.  One of the two remaining pubs is an Everards' house so you're OK if you like Eagle or Bombadier, or some sort of reindeer **** that they have on around Christmas time.  The village lager drinkers frequent this place I think!  It's a bit "local", doesn't help that the landlord is a bit of a marmite character so I've heard, which keeps a lot of villagers out of there.

The other pub is quite ancient and is intertwined with local history going back for centuries.  But, the same as the one which closed down, it is owned by an investment company who get managers in on a long term contract paying a peppercorn rent for 12 months, then whack the rent up after the first year to something that means they just don't make a living out of it.  The current people have actually made a decent go of it to be fair, they're surviving if not thriving (I don't know how lucrative it is for them).  Some friends of mine took on the lease in that pub about 10 years ago and then realised what they had let themselves in for.  It was a 25 year contract with no early release clause!  They baled out in the end, losing everything they had put in to it.

This, I believe, is why so many of our village pubs are dying off.  This business model where they're owned by investment companies who cream off a big chunk of the profit is rotten to the core in my opinion.  It is an absolute affront on one of the foundation stones of British society.  In times gone by a "proper" landlord and landlady would have a pub, and it was "theirs" even if it was a tied house.  The breweries still took some money but it was a much fairer arrangement than a lot of these investment companies give to their "managers" nowadays.

It's extremely fanciful to think of this I know, but I do wonder if the government might recognise the historical and heritage value of our ancient inns and devise some sort of way to protect them from the mercenary financiers who only see them in the form of profit & loss accounts and balance sheets.  Our traditional pubs are worth much more than the treatment they've been getting.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Well I am sorry to say I will not miss many of the public houses. Hardly drink alcohol these days and certainly not in over priced watering holes with the noise of sports TV blaring out. Much nicer to go out for a meal with friends or family and be able to hold a conversation!

Once they started to chill everything to lager temperatures I stopped using them, beer, real beer should be almost warm so you can taste it!

As others have said the good old days have gone.

When I arrived at RAF Wittering in 1984, we would go in to Stamford and try to get round either the inner or outer "wall", 52 public houses in those days, never managed to complete either over the years.

If the remaining public houses can become the centre of their communities like they once were, there is just a small chance that these might survive, but for that to happen, they would have to look at their business model and become inviting places to meet again.

[vmaxphil]

Years ago people went to the pub or stayed in to watch the black and white minstrel show on BBC, nowadays you have 100 channels freeveiw, Netflix or any other demand TV , internet games ect ect drinking your £1.50 bottle of beer from aldi why go out ?

[yates]

Same story around hear. There's only 10% of the pubs/clubs still open. There are lots of reasons for this, mainly the cost and smoking ban. The culture in our villages is much different now. When I first started going to the pub in the early eighties it was something that everyone did, we were only sixteen. Most people went out everyday of the week. Most were miners or steel workers. That was the culture of the time but now people have more things to do with their time

[Dave at kelton]

11 hours ago, billytheghillie said:

The pub/hotel in my village closed up about 3 weeks ago. Apparently they did not want the local regulars and were trying to depend on passing trade. 

The desire to attract those from out of the village is an all too familiar story. Sooner have the restaurant full than the bar!

[smokingdragon]

we're quite lucky in my village as we have quite a good bus service, one of which is Swansea to Brecon one which for a bus is quite comfortable, even Wifi on it. Now that we have reached that age where we get a free bus pass, it costs nothing to go and visit all pubs along the route to Brecon. Most of these pubs are doing nicely as they benefit from the tourist trade and server very good food and some are even opening up accomodation.

Our village still has one pub that survives on food and the normal rugby club which is a bit dire.

The touristy pubs have made an effort with good selection of beers and ciders, so why would I choose to spend my money in a miserable cold pub when a free bus ride takes me to a much better place.

[Scully]

I think most pubs nowadays ( in fairly rural areas anyhow ) have to serve food nowadays to survive, and not just any old pub grub, but good grub. 
I know of quite a few pubs in my old home town which have now closed, but there again there are many former pubs which became private homes which I can’t remember ever being pubs. 
As more and more people want to live rurally, some pubs which closed down have re-opened as community run and owned pubs, but all serve food, and good food. 
There are also a rising number of pubs ( especially in the lakes ) which used to serve food but no linger can due to staff shortages, but who wants to work long unsociable hours for a minimum wage you simply can’t live off? Put the wages up to accommodate for that and everything else has to go up accordingly. 
Our local village pub is thankfully booming, but they have a reputation for very very good pub food, but the owner admits she couldn’t make a living from just running the pub. She has an outside catering business also and her and her husband created a caravan site which attracts many many customers who eat and drink there. 
It is staffed in turn and mostly by people who don’t need the money, including a teacher, a baker, the wife and daughter of an internet security provider ( the latter of whom works for her Dad ) a hospital lab technician, a farmers wife, a farmer, a MacMillan nurse, a scrap dealer, and at times my OH and myself. No one who works there does it as their main source of income ( apart from one ) so the minimum wage they are paid is a bonus really. 
Serving food is the only way to survive in my opinion, but it has to be GOOD food; mediocre just won’t cut it. 
A pub/ restaurant local to us has just received two AA rosettes on top of its Michelin star. 
I believe Cumbria has the largest number of Michelin rated chefs in the country? 
There have seen numerous pubs close down in my nearest big town, Penrith over the last twenty or thirty years, but there are still many on the go, and as the town is growing out of all recognition at an astonishing rate, I dont see any presently struggling, food serving or not. 

[JohnfromUK]

I think one of the problems is that despite a much increased population, less seem to go for an evening out to their 'local' - and many have given very valid reasons in posts above.  Another point is that as the number of pubs has declined, the old 'different style pubs for different pub goers' has necessarily gone.  When I was in my 20s, the local village had 3 pubs - all catering very much for a different market;

• Pub A was an old established and very small pub, one bar, limited range of drinks, no parking or garden and no meals done.  It was frequented exclusively by the older locals, who went in regularly and there were the usual pub card games, gardening chat, and it was almost a closed social group.  I doubt the landlord made much, but it was almost like him hosting friends round.  I doubt anyone under 60 ever went in!  When the landlord retired it closed and became a private house.
• Pub B was a modern (1950s) brick built pub.  An unattractive building that replaced (in post war austerity) an older building that I think burned down.  It had two bars, a very basic 'public bar' (with an external 'off license sales' window) that was drab and virtually sawdust on concrete and had a regular group of locals, many of whom were pretty heavy drinkers and not welcoming of strangers.  The 'lounge bar' was a little more comfortable and I think mainly catered for the wives of the public bar regulars.  I don't think any food was served at all.  There was also a skittle alley that was quite popular and had it's own bar.  It was only open for 'matches' in local leagues and did a "brought in' buffet on skittles match evenings.  I suspect it provided a good part of the overall income.  It was a tied house and had a very small car park.  The 'garden' was all brambles and nettles.  It is now a quite successful gastro pub.
• Pub C was an old thatched style pub.  It was a 'free house' run by a local who was a quite prominent businessman as a bit of a hobby and was spacious with a large car park.  The public bar catered for the 'mainly young' free spending types and had a good range of drinks and a nice atmosphere, but was noisy and no place for a relaxed evening.  The lounge bar was a nice and comfortable area, much quieter and popular with locals for a meal out and drink with friends etc.  The food was pretty decent.  There as also a restaurant which was good, but expensive and I suspect very profitable.  It did a lot of business entertaining trade at lunchtimes.  It is still going and now a very reasonable family pub.

The problem with all this is that there is now one 'traditional' pub (Pub C) which has aimed squarely now at the family evening meal trade welcoming children etc.  - and seems to do quite well - though whether it makes any money I don't know.  The Landlord there worked very hard keeping going during Covid doing deliver to home type meals and earned a lot of respect.  There is almost an expectation that attendees will have a meal.  They do thing like 'quiz nights' which seem popular and lunch trade for walkers and day trippers to the area probably do well.

Pub B seems to do reasonably well as a 'gastro' pub, but is not much used by locals - as it is seen as a relatively expensive restaurant - and not a pub.  Personally, I found the food pretentious and expensive (but good) and the service slow. 

I guess it is hard to cover all peoples very different wants.

[Bigbob]

I remember our local pub well in the middle of the village ironically named THe Halfway House it suffered a big blow when the local fishing loch closed a lot of anglers had B&B , All the local kids had there first pint bought for them by there fathers there no so handy jumping in the car to go for a drink now , Then they flattened it and the village has nothing now  no pub , garage or shop 

Its funny the owners cant make money out of there pub but Wetherspoons buy it and  make money from it 

[Minky]

I'm surprised .. nay ...  slightly disappointed that my post and I  went harranged to a standstill.  For being Reactionary and me being a miserable *** by the bar prospers brigade.   BUT  I'm not repentant.   If I had the funds to buy the place I'd have no compunction at all the bulldozer would be in first thing Monday morning. I've known the pub for more than 40 odd years and its only ever had one decent couple, landlord/ landlady in all that time.  Previous to the  present owner the village do gooders created an association for people to attempt to purchase it to create a village hub, pub, post office. Initially it was thrown open to a general public where people could sort of pledge that they could allocate  an amount of funds to purchase the place.  subsequently a selected few of THE RIGHT SORT, were invited to private meetings to select a committee and steering group.  When the place came up for auction they had about two Bob in comparisonto what it eventually went under the hammer for.  A local woman that I know was a keen hound to get her wad out and get involved..... for the  general public  good.  I managed to convince her tat it would be more effective to Chuck the wad on her fire to keep warm by rather than Chuck it in a bottomless pit that was the pub.  I wonder how long it will last considering it might open for a couple of hours randomly now and then.   Bizarre.