Putin announces 'military operation' in Ukraine.

[MirokuMK70]

19 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

I am no fan of Putin, but I'm sure the Russians think he is brilliant compared to Boris and Creepy Joe. He has made the West look like a bunch of amateurs.

But that's only because he's fully prepared to bring the world to the brink of war in the name of looking hard... he knows the west will blink first because no western democracy will risk ww3 over Ukraine.

[Rewulf]

51 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

For a change it looks like the Western intel was correct in so much that Putin was planning a full scale invasion and occupation of Ukraine, albeit under the well established pretence of regime change.

Im not so sure of this , hes had 8 years since 2014 to take Ukraine out, why didnt he , and why now (if thats the intention) ?

With the military drills thing, again , why take so long sitting on the border , supposedly building up supplies ect, surely it doesnt take 2 months , in full view to prepare for an invasion ?
I dont believe there was the absolute intention, obviously an option, but something happened, and the strategy changed, maybe he had nothing to lose, he was getting sanctioned anyway, maybe he had good intel that Ukraine WAS going to join NATO imminently?

There are reports in some media of Russian aircraft being shot down over rebel held Donbass by Ukrainian forces , I heard 5 fixed wing and one helo, maybe that incensed the Russians to do whats happened today ?
Who knows ? The war for information is hotting up , with the UK government looking to shut down RT , as they have stated they 'Only want ONE narrative'
This is often known as propaganda, and leads to that 'first casualty of war , is truth' moment

35 minutes ago, bottletopbill said:

Start  seizing all russian money and property in Europe with immediate affect. Before we commit any UK lives 

Works both ways, and if any of his cronies were in the know , they would have shipped out and dissolved assets long ago.
Keep in mind , there are a lot of western companies involved in Russian oil and gas operations.

[Gordon R]

Quote

But that's only because he's fully prepared to bring the world to the brink of war in the name of looking hard... he knows the west will blink first because no western democracy will risk ww3 over Ukraine.

Sad, but accurate.

[Dave-G]

I'd have given the rat more credibility if he'd declared war instead of his run of cowardly deceit about exercises and 'not going into Ukraine'

 

[Smokersmith]

Clive Myrie now reporting line from Kyiv, air raid sirens going off behind him.

Perhaps not Mastermind after all! 

13 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

why now

Clearly a plan to weaken the West through the Chinese virus and strike before we recover 😜

[captainhastings]

I feel sorry for the soldiers on both sides. The weaponry at play not that I know much about must be devastating 

[Dave-G]

An especially galling aspect of Ukraine's horror is they gave up their nuclear deterent after reaching agreements with the west and Russia.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Dave-G

[clangerman]

26 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

I'd have given the rat more credibility if he'd declared war instead of his run of cowardly deceit about exercises and 'not going into Ukraine'

 

you don’t get more cowardly than sending our brave lads to war with lies of WMD that did not exist 

[old man]

26 minutes ago, mel b3 said:

With the state of my back , I'd need to use mine as a crutch 😄.

Worry not old bean, leave the mushrooms alone and the dreams will fade?

[Mr.T]

Question for you all, do you think Putin would still have invaded Ukraine if  Ukraine was a member of NATO?

 

[Raja Clavata]

9 minutes ago, Mr.T said:

Question for you all, do you think Putin would still have invaded Ukraine if  Ukraine was a member of NATO?

 

Absolutely not.

[oldypigeonpopper]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

I don't see Russia needing anyone helping them but this is a perfect opportunity for China and North Korea to start playing up with their own agendas.

For a change it looks like the Western intel was correct in so much that Putin was planning a full scale invasion and occupation of Ukraine, albeit under the well established pretence of regime change.

Personally I currently have no idea what the end game looks like. Best outcome appears to be that he stops at Ukraine, Russia faces sanctions and suffers as a result, the result of which we all suffer a bit as a consequence.

I hope the sanctions at least go as far as cutting global banking ties with Russia, disconnecting Russia from SWIFT banking network seems like a sound move. 

Hello, I dare say Putin has already made a pact with China

2 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Absolutely not.

Hello, agree,  he did not want Ukraine to join NATO 

[clangerman]

17 minutes ago, Mr.T said:

Question for you all, do you think Putin would still have invaded Ukraine if  Ukraine was a member of NATO?

 

yes he would nobody cares how many they kill so long as their worthless hide is safe in a bunker 

[Rewulf]

13 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, agree,  he did not want Ukraine to join NATO 

As to my earlier comment, did he attack because he had good intel that they were going to join ?

In that sense , did NATO play up the the threat that he was DEFINITELY going to attack , even if he wasnt, thereby forcing Ukraine to ask to join ASAP ?
Either way , the Ukrainians are having hostile neighbours.

KA 52 gunship shot down , by Ukrainian SAM

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Rewulf

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

Im not so sure of this , hes had 8 years since 2014 to take Ukraine out, why didnt he , and why now (if thats the intention) ?

With the military drills thing, again , why take so long sitting on the border , supposedly building up supplies ect, surely it doesnt take 2 months , in full view to prepare for an invasion

I heard them mention they'd been at war for 8 years, I ran it back as I thought I'd misheard. 

So it's not 2 months,  it's no doubt been planned for a while,  the 2 months was just bring supplies forward.  I'd guess they acted because they weren't opposed,  how are the border guards supposed to stand up to Russian soldiers, had there been Nato tanks and troops on the border then this may not have happened. 

But is Putins threat all hot air, or genuine? The Western leaders won't want to find out.

[JDog]

I just saw this over former RAF Binbrook. Perhaps Putin's Intel aint what it's supposed to be. 

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, Mice! said:

So it's not 2 months,  it's no doubt been planned for a while,  the 2 months was just bring supplies forward. 

That doesnt take 2 months, and by the looks of things , they had all the supplies they needed.
I stand by what I say, I dont think a full ground invasion was the endgame, and still might not be.

1 minute ago, Mice! said:

had there been Nato tanks and troops on the border then this may not have happened. 

Do you mean UN troops?

Facing off on borders is one sure fire way to escalate tension, look at any example of this worldwide.

[chrisjpainter]

6 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

That doesnt take 2 months, and by the looks of things , they had all the supplies they needed.
I stand by what I say, I dont think a full ground invasion was the endgame, and still might not be.

Do you mean UN troops?

Facing off on borders is one sure fire way to escalate tension, look at any example of this worldwide.

The UN can't do anything; it's powerless in this. Any move it tries to make will be vetoed by Russia. Until veto powers for the 5 permanent members are removed - or at least given a method of circumvention - the UN's a neutered force. Russia and to a lesser extent (at the moment) China now find it far more personally beneficial to be against whatever the US, Britain and France bring before the Security Council. 

[Mice!]

7 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Do you mean UN troops?

Facing off on borders is one sure fire way to escalate tension, look at any example of this worldwide.

Yes UN, having UN troops in position may have made them think again,  that's what I think the wait has been about, and the Ukraine leads into Europe!

With no opposition someone made the call to go in.

They can't simply bomb a European country so the Russians know they can move in.

Now China will likely act, its the perfect time.

[Robden]

Just heard that Britain's Defcon has gone from 'tutting'  to slightly 'peeved.'

[Raja Clavata]

55 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Im not so sure of this , hes had 8 years since 2014 to take Ukraine out, why didnt he , and why now (if thats the intention) ?

With the military drills thing, again , why take so long sitting on the border , supposedly building up supplies ect, surely it doesnt take 2 months , in full view to prepare for an invasion ?
I dont believe there was the absolute intention, obviously an option, but something happened, and the strategy changed, maybe he had nothing to lose, he was getting sanctioned anyway, maybe he had good intel that Ukraine WAS going to join NATO imminently?

There are reports in some media of Russian aircraft being shot down over rebel held Donbass by Ukrainian forces , I heard 5 fixed wing and one helo, maybe that incensed the Russians to do whats happened today ?
Who knows ? The war for information is hotting up , with the UK government looking to shut down RT , as they have stated they 'Only want ONE narrative'
This is often known as propaganda, and leads to that 'first casualty of war , is truth' moment

I didn't comment in the build-up as I wasn't sure what was actually going on and why but there were various views expressed by others. The US and UK warned of an invasion.

From the news channels I'm seeing, a clear picture of the start of an invasion and occupation is evident.

We've all been living in the post truth era for some time, truth is no longer based on fact but the above are facts.

Another reason truth is lost in war is because in the throes of conflict it is even less relevant.

[NoBodyImportant]

4 hours ago, old'un said:

Makes you wonder what Trump would have done? Klaatu will turn-up shortly to sort this out.

Trump spent 4 years telling Eastern Europe to build a better defense force and modernize.  He literally said this exact thing was going to happen.  He was ridiculed and was told the Cold War was over and to stop the saber rattling.  But unfortunately Putin never would have invaded under Trumps watch and the world would have laughed and said all the money that was spent on Eastern European weapons should have been spent building summer camps to teach nonbinary them/they’s to explore there sexuality. 

[Rewulf]

4 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

Russia and to a lesser extent (at the moment) China now find it far more personally beneficial to be against whatever the US, Britain and France bring before the Security Council. 

Thats probably because they have had the same measures used against them for the last 30 years ?

Sanctions may or may not hurt them, but I wouldnt expect them to just curl up and die, because like a wild animal backed into a corner, theres only one course of action.

2 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Yes UN, having UN troops in position may have made them think again,  that's what I think the wait has been about, and the Ukraine leads into Europe!

I am a bit surprised that no one offered a buffer zone type solution in Donbass, there doesnt seem to be a valid reason why not ?
But then, I am very cynical that the west didnt actually WANT this to happen.
 

2 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Now China will likely act, its the perfect time.

It is , and maybe they will, are they ready ?
Will the US fire on Chinese forces if they attack Taiwan ? Im not sure they will.

What they do like to do is sell Taiwan lots of very expensive arms, when it comes to risking American lives, not so much when the stakes are much higher.
Its alright bombing some opium farmers back to the stone age, but a nuclear armed, hi tech superpower , with unlimited budget.
Taiwan will be on its own.

Yes there will be sanctions, and that suits the US , for a while.

[Raja Clavata]

And there has been conflict in Eastern Ukraine for many years.

Regarding what might have changed, didn't the US basically give him the go-ahead on the basis that neither US nor NATO forces would step in to stop him?

[NoBodyImportant]

3 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

Putin is insane, he is very obviously medically unfit to be in charge of anything.

Putin is a genius that literally out played everyone. His timing is impeccable. Western Europe shut the bad nuclear plants down and built natural gas one so they depend on Russian resources.  China is planning on expanding their influence. America is led by a weak president who doesn’t have the support of its people.