Putin announces 'military operation' in Ukraine.

[Smokersmith]

48 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Can you give me an example of Russian beliefs ?*

I agree with Putin as I value my freedom.

[Rewulf]

31 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

The unprecedented speed and scale of the EU’s response to the Russian invasion of Ukraine therefore displayed a surprising degree of unity and capacity to act, from what was admittedly a rather low base. The EU agreed to provide Ukraine with €450 million worth of weapons, and joined the US and the UK in imposing significant economic sanctions on the Russian financial system. Josep Borrell, the EU’s High Representative for Foreign and Security Policy, described it as the EU’s “geopolitical awakening”.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10692127/EU-admits-given-Russia-35billion-energy-Ukraine-war-began.html

Thats so far ...

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Yes it is a stupid part of the whole debacle.

[Raja Clavata]

On 06/04/2022 at 19:34, Scully said:

The really really sad thing about that though, is that it doesn’t really. We’ll all shake our heads at seeing the images, just as we did on seeing that refugee toddler bobbing up and down, face down in the surf on the south coast of the UK a few years ago, and say how awful it is, before waiting for the weather report to see if we’re going to get rained on tomorrow, and then five minutes later it’s like it never happened. 
I’ll just leave this here: 

I can't get it out of my head that there's probably a group of members here who feel OK about this since, in their eyes, we are no longer part of Europe 😕 

That Daily Mail article is interesting since it reflects predominantly on the EU. Here in the UK we are much less reliant on Russian energy but still appear to be spending millions per day for Russian LNG - whilst we've said we'll stop coal and oil imports from year end there is no timescale for gas which last year amounted to ~£2B.

[Rewulf]

2 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I can't get it out of my head that there's probably a group of members here who feel OK about this since, in their eyes, we are no longer part of Europe 😕 

We left the EU , not Europe, to leave Europe is an impossibility, we are connected in so many different ways.
I think what you mean really , is that those who wanted to leave the EU , care less than those who wanted to remain, and that simply isnt the case.

3 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

That Daily Mail article is interesting since it reflects predominantly on the EU. Here in the UK we are much less reliant on Russian energy but still appear to be spending millions per day for Russian LNG - whilst we've said we'll stop coal and oil imports from year end there is no timescale for gas which last year amounted to ~£2B.

Im sure you can appreciate that replacing energy sources for domestic and industry, is not something that can be done overnight.
Ive no doubt that there are many in Europe that would like to use less Russian fuels, but replace them with what ?
The US has rather helpfully 😄 offered to ship in gas , but this is not a solution that is practical or economically viable.

Its bad enough with the recent hikes in energy , further cost increases are going to hit very hard.
And no one is gloating about that, except the petrochemical companies.

[Scully]

8 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I can't get it out of my head that there's probably a group of members here who feel OK about this since, in their eyes, we are no longer part of Europe 😕 

That Daily Mail article is interesting since it reflects predominantly on the EU. Here in the UK we are much less reliant on Russian energy but still appear to be spending millions per day for Russian LNG - whilst we've said we'll stop coal and oil imports from year end there is no timescale for gas which last year amounted to ~£2B.

Perhaps Shell have invested too much money to pull out? 
There is always an amount of hypocrisy in politics, it’s just the way it is, but no one mentioned cutting ties with Russian energy supplies ( and we don’t import that much ) when they were bombing the hell out of Syria, but now it’s the Ukraine, all of a sudden it matters! 🤷‍♂️
I can’t recall the BBC accusing Putin or Assad of war crimes regarding Syria, now it’s Clive Myries default setting! 
There may be more truth in the quote I posted than is comfortable for some folk. 
 

[Raja Clavata]

14 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

We left the EU , not Europe, to leave Europe is an impossibility, we are connected in so many different ways.
I think what you mean really , is that those who wanted to leave the EU , care less than those who wanted to remain, and that simply isnt the case.

That isn't what I meant at all, my point was purely around the fact that we are still part of Europe, even if some would prefer that wasn't the case.

Which is reinforced by the fact that the DM article could have just stated Europe rather than the EU.

21 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Im sure you can appreciate that replacing energy sources for domestic and industry, is not something that can be done overnight.
Ive no doubt that there are many in Europe that would like to use less Russian fuels, but replace them with what ?
The US has rather helpfully 😄 offered to ship in gas , but this is not a solution that is practical or economically viable.

Its bad enough with the recent hikes in energy , further cost increases are going to hit very hard.
And no one is gloating about that, except the petrochemical companies.

Totally agree. Cutting all energy consumption from Russia in Europe could put Europe in recession which is the last thing any of us, particularly Ukraine, need right now...

[Raja Clavata]

22 minutes ago, Scully said:

Perhaps Shell have invested too much money to pull out? 
There is always an amount of hypocrisy in politics, it’s just the way it is, but no one mentioned cutting ties with Russian energy supplies ( and we don’t import that much ) when they were bombing the hell out of Syria, but now it’s the Ukraine, all of a sudden it matters! 🤷‍♂️
I can’t recall the BBC accusing Putin or Assad of war crimes regarding Syria, now it’s Clive Myries default setting! 
There may be more truth in the quote I posted than is comfortable for some folk. 
 

I concur.

On the topic of the quote you posted, there was actually an article on Al-Jazeera, which made the same point very bluntly, almost offensively, implying we are all racist - I tried to reach out to the author on LinkedIn to point out we are not all like that but he is yet to accept my connection request.

[Smokersmith]

22 minutes ago, Scully said:

Perhaps Shell have invested too much money to pull out? 

They have pulled out (one of the first) … reported cost of 5 billion usd.

[Raja Clavata]

So now Putin has recruited not only Wagner Group but the Neo-Nazi Rusich mercenaries to help "de-Nazify" Ukraine.

I forget who the statement was attributed to in Putin's regime but somebody apparently suggested that the Ukrainian civilian population needed to be purified of their Nazi-ism since the Ukrainian public reflect the government. Despite being utter nonsense I wonder if they pondered what that implies of the Russian public...

You really couldn't make it up.

[Scully]

It’s like something out of a 1950’s B-movie! It would be hilarious if it wasn’t actually happening! 

[Jim Neal]

This is quite an interesting "what if?" scenario, although I do see a few fundamental flaws in his theories.  Mildly entertaining if you've got 10 minutes to kill...

 

 

[Dave-G]

10 hours ago, Jim Neal said:

This is quite an interesting "what if?" scenario, although I do see a few fundamental flaws in his theories.  Mildly entertaining if you've got 10 minutes to kill...

 

 

That's decent food for thought for those demanding we supply a no fly zone in Ukraine or send in the heavy stuff and personnel.

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, well the killing of 50 Ukrainian citizens including children and wounding many more waiting at the train station must must go down as a war crime , but still Putin's regime state, not us your honour !!!, so why are all those countries including scared to defend against Putin ??

[toontastic]

14 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, well the killing of 50 Ukrainian citizens including children and wounding many more waiting at the train station must must go down as a war crime , but still Putin's regime state, not us your honour !!!, so why are all those countries including scared to defend against Putin ??

There was a Ukrainian politician on the news this morning asking NATO to sink Russian ships, but he said they wouldn't do it due to having no guts and no courage. 

[ditchman]

putin is sending in his best killin general now........some butcher form the syria campagne.........

 

things ought to hot up now.........see what depths of depravity theycan acheive now...

[clangerman]

37 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, well the killing of 50 Ukrainian citizens including children and wounding many more waiting at the train station must must go down as a war crime , but still Putin's regime state, not us your honour !!!, 

no difference from the yanks many war crimes they were caught on camera no less machine gunning innocent civilians in Iraq and their trial starts when? 

[ShootingEgg]

3 hours ago, toontastic said:

There was a Ukrainian politician on the news this morning asking NATO to sink Russian ships, but he said they wouldn't do it due to having no guts and no courage. 

Well that would go against NATO's " we are a defensive, and a deterrent force".. 

[Rewulf]

3 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, well the killing of 50 Ukrainian citizens including children and wounding many more waiting at the train station must must go down as a war crime , but still Putin's regime state, not us your honour !!!, so why are all those countries including scared to defend against Putin ??

I'm not saying anything isn't as it seems , but I am interested to know how 2 , 6.4 metre cruise missile s , weighing 2 metric tonnes each, with half a tonne of explosive payload , which Russia stopped using 15 years ago (but Ukraine has 100s of) caused a 2 ft wide crater , no scorch marks , and left 2 benches within a metre of its 'detonation ' unscathed, the other one left no crater at all , but set fire to 3 cars ?

Oh and the tail section of one of them , despite being engulfed in flames for its journey , but landed delicately on some barely marked  grass , despite the missile bodies mangled appearance , has some perfectly daubed intact message on the side ?

[ordnance]

3 hours ago, clangerman said:

no difference from the yanks many war crimes they were caught on camera no less machine gunning innocent civilians in Iraq and their trial starts when? 

I missed that, where is the video Yanks of gunning down innocent civilians ? Most countries deliberately targeted civilians during WW2, maybe we thought that was in the past.

Edited April 9, 2022 by ordnance

[MirokuMK70]

43 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

I'm not saying anything isn't as it seems , but I am interested to know how 2 , 6.4 metre cruise missile s , weighing 2 metric tonnes each, with half a tonne of explosive payload , which Russia stopped using 15 years ago (but Ukraine has 100s of) caused a 2 ft wide crater , no scorch marks , and left 2 benches within a metre of its 'detonation ' unscathed, the other one left no crater at all , but set fire to 3 cars ?

Oh and the tail section of one of them , despite being engulfed in flames for its journey , but landed delicately on some barely marked  grass , despite the missile bodies mangled appearance , has some perfectly daubed intact message on the side ?

The rockets deployed cluster munitions, not one explosive warhead...

[clangerman]

1 hour ago, ordnance said:

I missed that, where is the video Yanks of gunning down innocent civilians ? Most countries deliberately targeted civilians during WW2, maybe we thought that was in the past.

not hard to find think it’s still on al jazeraa site one sicko is actually laughing as he kills them commentary describing two chaps in the van as five armed individuals is the biggest lie ever told clear as a bell they are two in number unarmed and evacuating a wounded man if killing them for their trouble is not a war crime what is mistakes are made in war but murder is not one of them 

[12gauge82]

39 minutes ago, clangerman said:

not hard to find think it’s still on al jazeraa site one sicko is actually laughing as he kills them commentary describing two chaps in the van as five armed individuals is the biggest lie ever told clear as a bell they are two in number unarmed and evacuating a wounded man if killing them for their trouble is not a war crime what is mistakes are made in war but murder is not one of them 

That sounds like the incident where a helicopter pilot mistook a film crew for insurgents, one of which had a camera which he believed was a rpg and opened fire on them, including a van that tried to evac them. The yanks attempted to hide it yes, the helicopter pilot should have confirmed they were hostile, but I don't believe he opened fire on them believing they were civilians. 

[Rewulf]

2 hours ago, MirokuMK70 said:

The rockets deployed cluster munitions, not one explosive warhead...

I'm aware that that particular missile can use a cluster warhead, there appears to be little evidence of that being the case here. 

 

3 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

but I don't believe he opened fire on them believing they were civilians

No, he appeared to believe he was playing a video game, with his rather excitable comments, referring to them as "dead ba#a&e^s" 

The video is 'collateral murder' and was part of the wiki leaks dossier, Assange has been public enemy no 1 in the US  government ever since. 

[12gauge82]

25 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

I'm aware that that particular missile can use a cluster warhead, there appears to be little evidence of that being the case here. 

 

No, he appeared to believe he was playing a video game, with his rather excitable comments, referring to them as "dead ba#a&e^s" 

The video is 'collateral murder' and was part of the wiki leaks dossier, Assange has been public enemy no 1 in the US  government ever since. 

I'm not defending his actions, but there's a vast difference between the misguided actions of a lone pilot and the deliberate targeting of civilians by senior Russian military commanders.