Brexit - merged threads

[12gauge82]

4 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Well for me Mr Corbyn is loony left, thinks Venezuela works great, sympathises with terrorists, yes no maybe?

As to where the Tories are? Probably left of middle maybe, which compared to the loony left seems far right? Anyone still with me, which probably makes the likes of BNP extremely right? We certainly don't need extreme anything but something is bound to change, it has too.

This is what worries me, the tories won't deliver brexit, Labour certainly won't, it makes you wonder how many of the 17.4M who feel utterly betrayed are going to look at the next stop right of the tories to deliver it. 

[panoma1]

The government have wasted millions of £ of our money on preparing for the UK leaving the EU.......and Parliament never had any intention of allowing it to happen!....and they are not even accountable for it!

6 minutes ago, CZ550Kevlar said:

The backbenchers are attempting to push a law through the commons and then the lords under fastrack which stops a no deal brexit on the 12th.

a right stitch up.

It was passed in the commons by a majority of one vote! But no MP's are demanding the vote be retaken!......but a majority of over a million people voted to leave the EU....and many MP's are calling for another vote.....******* hypocrites, democracy where it suits them!

[CZ550Kevlar]

I read an article the other day summing up a customs union membership.

we wouldn't have a seat at the table... we would be dinner!

 

 

[walshie]

22 minutes ago, CZ550Kevlar said:

The backbenchers cooper and letwin are attempting to push a law through the commons and then the lords under fastrack which stops a no deal brexit on the 12th.

a right stitch up.

How can they make a law that stops a no-deal Brexit? No deal is the default by A50 in International Law. It's up to them if they can't agree.

[CZ550Kevlar]

5 minutes ago, walshie said:

How can they make a law that stops a no-deal Brexit? No deal is the default by A50 in International Law. It's up to them if they can't agree.

I dont know, all I know is that it has its third reading at 2200 ish then if it passes goes to the lords then for royal ascent.

[Raja Clavata]

22 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Well for me Mr Corbyn is loony left, thinks Venezuela works great, sympathises with terrorists, yes no maybe?

As to where the Tories are? Probably left of middle maybe, which compared to the loony left seems far right? Anyone still with me, which probably makes the likes of BNP extremely right? We certainly don't need extreme anything but something is bound to change, it has too.

I think you’ve got Corbyn right.

With the Tories I think they are so fragmented there’s probably at least two maybe three positions which in truth is probably the case for Labour too.

We live in interesting times!

And yes change is long overdue...

 

 

[walshie]

3 hours ago, oowee said:

You cannot blame the rise of far right activity on others. There are no excuses for extremists.

You're right. There is no excuse for extremists on either end of the spectrum. The issue is labelling everyone right of centre as "far right" or "alt-right" (whatever that means.) Calling anyone with conservative (small c) views, fascists, racists, nazis, bigots, etc, in my mind makes the labels meaningless. Perhaps if they weren't bandied about at every opportunity, they might be taken more seriously. You can't lump people like me in with the likes of the EDL, BNP etc. Well you can, but you'd be wrong. I dislike them every bit as much as I dislike the opposite end.

This country and quite a few others, is being pushed to the right as a backlash of the insidious advance of the left and being expected to take the left view as "normal" and everything else as something-ist. The government has made it impossible for people to air their worries or opinions for fear of being something-ist, and because we don't, they think "Well no-one is complaining, so everything is hunky-dory." Well newsflash - it isn't and now a few people are waking up to it.

I despise the EU and all it stands for. I hate my country being inundated with the dregs of the earth. I hate not being able to speak freely. I will not call a man in a frock "she" just because they want me to and I won't be told I have to. For this, I risk being arrested? That's mental. I don't care what people do with their own lives, but when their "rights" risk sending me to jail, something is very wrong. If I spoke out about any religion, I'd risk the same, but other religions can call for our soldiers to be murdered and nothing is done? Why could Jon Snow say he never saw so many white people but I couldn't say I never saw so many black people without being accused of racism? The police spend all their time trying to catch people "misgendering" or writing offensive tweets they have no time to deal with the real crime like people being stabbed daily in London.

As a white, British, heterosexual, fairly fit, working male, my rights have been flushed down the bog and I want them back. I am not a second class citizen in my own country. I'm not a racist, sexist, activist, fascist, transphobic, homophobic, anything else ist or phobic and above all, I'm not an uneducated thug, and I will push back against anyone who suggests I am.

Sorry for the rant mate. 

Edited April 3, 2019 by walshie

[Mice!]

8 minutes ago, walshie said:

You're right. There is no excuse for extremists on either end of the spectrum. The issue is labelling everyone right of centre as "far right" or "alt-right" (whatever that means.) Calling anyone with conservative (small c) views, fascists, racists, nazis, bigots, etc, in my mind makes the labels meaningless. Perhaps if they weren't bandied about at every opportunity, they might be taken more seriously. You can't lump people like me in with the likes of the EDL, BNP etc. Well you can, but you'd be wrong. I dislike them every bit as much as I dislike the opposite end.

This country and quite a few others, is being pushed to the right as a backlash of the insidious advance of the left and being expected to take the left view as "normal" and everything else as something-ist. The government has made it impossible for people to air their worries or opinions for fear of being something-ist, and because we don't, they think "Well no-one is complaining, so everything is hunky-dory." Well newsflash - it isn't and now a few people are waking up to it.

I despise the EU and all it stands for. I hate my country being inundated with the dregs of the earth. I hate not being able to speak freely. I will not call a man in a frock "she" just because they want me to and I won't be told I have to. For this, I risk being arrested? That's mental. I don't care what people do with their own lives, but when their "rights" risk sending me to jail, something is very wrong. If I spoke out about any religion, I'd risk the same, but other religions can call for our soldiers to be murdered and nothing is done? Why could Jon Snow say he never saw so many white people but I couldn't say I never saw so many black people without being accused of racism? The police spend all their time trying to catch people "misgendering" or writing offensive tweets they have no time to deal with the real crime like people being stabbed daily in London.

As a white, British, heterosexual, fairly fit, working male, my rights have been flushed down the bog and I want them back. I am not a second class citizen in my own country. I'm not a racist, sexist, activist, fascist, transphobic, homophobic, anything else ist or phobic and above all, I'm not an uneducated thug, and I will push back against anyone who suggests I am.

Sorry for the rant mate. 

Your not alone 👍 

[Rewulf]

6 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Your not alone 👍 

Not by a long stretch. 

[Newbie to this]

27 minutes ago, walshie said:

You're right. There is no excuse for extremists on either end of the spectrum. The issue is labelling everyone right of centre as "far right" or "alt-right" (whatever that means.) Calling anyone with conservative (small c) views, fascists, racists, nazis, bigots, etc, in my mind makes the labels meaningless. Perhaps if they weren't bandied about at every opportunity, they might be taken more seriously. You can't lump people like me in with the likes of the EDL, BNP etc. Well you can, but you'd be wrong. I dislike them every bit as much as I dislike the opposite end.

This country and quite a few others, is being pushed to the right as a backlash of the insidious advance of the left and being expected to take the left view as "normal" and everything else as something-ist. The government has made it impossible for people to air their worries or opinions for fear of being something-ist, and because we don't, they think "Well no-one is complaining, so everything is hunky-dory." Well newsflash - it isn't and now a few people are waking up to it.

I despise the EU and all it stands for. I hate my country being inundated with the dregs of the earth. I hate not being able to speak freely. I will not call a man in a frock "she" just because they want me to and I won't be told I have to. For this, I risk being arrested? That's mental. I don't care what people do with their own lives, but when their "rights" risk sending me to jail, something is very wrong. If I spoke out about any religion, I'd risk the same, but other religions can call for our soldiers to be murdered and nothing is done? Why could Jon Snow say he never saw so many white people but I couldn't say I never saw so many black people without being accused of racism? The police spend all their time trying to catch people "misgendering" or writing offensive tweets they have no time to deal with the real crime like people being stabbed daily in London.

As a white, British, heterosexual, fairly fit, working male, my rights have been flushed down the bog and I want them back. I am not a second class citizen in my own country. I'm not a racist, sexist, activist, fascist, transphobic, homophobic, anything else ist or phobic and above all, I'm not an uneducated thug, and I will push back against anyone who suggests I am.

Sorry for the rant mate. 

Well said.

[oowee]

5 minutes ago, walshie said:

 

Sorry for the rant mate. 

Rant is fine with me and i can see exactly where you are coming from. I am a great believer that most people the world over want the same things from life. To get on with it and enjoy it peacefully which makes us, in the words of Jo Cox more alike than the things that divide us. I reckon that's especially true on a forum like this where we all ostensibly share the same interest. I have met a few members off here and we are pretty similar in out look. I also think that much of that is similar in the rest of life, and despite some of the stuff that you can read in some of the more sensationalist papers the world still carries on much the same.

 

[Raja Clavata]

9 hours ago, walshie said:

You're right. There is no excuse for extremists on either end of the spectrum. The issue is labelling everyone right of centre as "far right" or "alt-right" (whatever that means.) Calling anyone with conservative (small c) views, fascists, racists, nazis, bigots, etc, in my mind makes the labels meaningless. Perhaps if they weren't bandied about at every opportunity, they might be taken more seriously. You can't lump people like me in with the likes of the EDL, BNP etc. Well you can, but you'd be wrong. I dislike them every bit as much as I dislike the opposite end.

This country and quite a few others, is being pushed to the right as a backlash of the insidious advance of the left and being expected to take the left view as "normal" and everything else as something-ist. The government has made it impossible for people to air their worries or opinions for fear of being something-ist, and because we don't, they think "Well no-one is complaining, so everything is hunky-dory." Well newsflash - it isn't and now a few people are waking up to it.

I despise the EU and all it stands for. I hate my country being inundated with the dregs of the earth. I hate not being able to speak freely. I will not call a man in a frock "she" just because they want me to and I won't be told I have to. For this, I risk being arrested? That's mental. I don't care what people do with their own lives, but when their "rights" risk sending me to jail, something is very wrong. If I spoke out about any religion, I'd risk the same, but other religions can call for our soldiers to be murdered and nothing is done? Why could Jon Snow say he never saw so many white people but I couldn't say I never saw so many black people without being accused of racism? The police spend all their time trying to catch people "misgendering" or writing offensive tweets they have no time to deal with the real crime like people being stabbed daily in London.

As a white, British, heterosexual, fairly fit, working male, my rights have been flushed down the bog and I want them back. I am not a second class citizen in my own country. I'm not a racist, sexist, activist, fascist, transphobic, homophobic, anything else ist or phobic and above all, I'm not an uneducated thug, and I will push back against anyone who suggests I am.

Sorry for the rant mate. 

Far from alone although perhaps I dislike the EU a bit less than you (or at the very least have different views on how to deal with it).

[Dekers]

9 hours ago, walshie said:

You're right. There is no excuse for extremists on either end of the spectrum. The issue is labelling everyone right of centre as "far right" or "alt-right" (whatever that means.) Calling anyone with conservative (small c) views, fascists, racists, nazis, bigots, etc, in my mind makes the labels meaningless. Perhaps if they weren't bandied about at every opportunity, they might be taken more seriously. You can't lump people like me in with the likes of the EDL, BNP etc. Well you can, but you'd be wrong. I dislike them every bit as much as I dislike the opposite end.

This country and quite a few others, is being pushed to the right as a backlash of the insidious advance of the left and being expected to take the left view as "normal" and everything else as something-ist. The government has made it impossible for people to air their worries or opinions for fear of being something-ist, and because we don't, they think "Well no-one is complaining, so everything is hunky-dory." Well newsflash - it isn't and now a few people are waking up to it.

I despise the EU and all it stands for. I hate my country being inundated with the dregs of the earth. I hate not being able to speak freely. I will not call a man in a frock "she" just because they want me to and I won't be told I have to. For this, I risk being arrested? That's mental. I don't care what people do with their own lives, but when their "rights" risk sending me to jail, something is very wrong. If I spoke out about any religion, I'd risk the same, but other religions can call for our soldiers to be murdered and nothing is done? Why could Jon Snow say he never saw so many white people but I couldn't say I never saw so many black people without being accused of racism? The police spend all their time trying to catch people "misgendering" or writing offensive tweets they have no time to deal with the real crime like people being stabbed daily in London.

As a white, British, heterosexual, fairly fit, working male, my rights have been flushed down the bog and I want them back. I am not a second class citizen in my own country. I'm not a racist, sexist, activist, fascist, transphobic, homophobic, anything else ist or phobic and above all, I'm not an uneducated thug, and I will push back against anyone who suggests I am.

Sorry for the rant mate. 

With you all the way!

[dead eye alan]

5 minutes ago, Dekers said:

With you all the way!

And me!

[scobydog]

And me, well said Walshie.

[islandgun]

walshie 

 

Post of the year candidate 

Edited April 4, 2019 by islandgun

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Bang on the money!

[Old Boggy]

10 hours ago, walshie said:

You're right. There is no excuse for extremists on either end of the spectrum. The issue is labelling everyone right of centre as "far right" or "alt-right" (whatever that means.) Calling anyone with conservative (small c) views, fascists, racists, nazis, bigots, etc, in my mind makes the labels meaningless. Perhaps if they weren't bandied about at every opportunity, they might be taken more seriously. You can't lump people like me in with the likes of the EDL, BNP etc. Well you can, but you'd be wrong. I dislike them every bit as much as I dislike the opposite end.

This country and quite a few others, is being pushed to the right as a backlash of the insidious advance of the left and being expected to take the left view as "normal" and everything else as something-ist. The government has made it impossible for people to air their worries or opinions for fear of being something-ist, and because we don't, they think "Well no-one is complaining, so everything is hunky-dory." Well newsflash - it isn't and now a few people are waking up to it.

I despise the EU and all it stands for. I hate my country being inundated with the dregs of the earth. I hate not being able to speak freely. I will not call a man in a frock "she" just because they want me to and I won't be told I have to. For this, I risk being arrested? That's mental. I don't care what people do with their own lives, but when their "rights" risk sending me to jail, something is very wrong. If I spoke out about any religion, I'd risk the same, but other religions can call for our soldiers to be murdered and nothing is done? Why could Jon Snow say he never saw so many white people but I couldn't say I never saw so many black people without being accused of racism? The police spend all their time trying to catch people "misgendering" or writing offensive tweets they have no time to deal with the real crime like people being stabbed daily in London.

As a white, British, heterosexual, fairly fit, working male, my rights have been flushed down the bog and I want them back. I am not a second class citizen in my own country. I'm not a racist, sexist, activist, fascist, transphobic, homophobic, anything else ist or phobic and above all, I'm not an uneducated thug, and I will push back against anyone who suggests I am.

Sorry for the rant mate. 

Don't hold back Walshie, say what you feel 

Totally agree, you nailed it 

OB

[tikkashot]

10 hours ago, walshie said:

You're right. There is no excuse for extremists on either end of the spectrum. The issue is labelling everyone right of centre as "far right" or "alt-right" (whatever that means.) Calling anyone with conservative (small c) views, fascists, racists, nazis, bigots, etc, in my mind makes the labels meaningless. Perhaps if they weren't bandied about at every opportunity, they might be taken more seriously. You can't lump people like me in with the likes of the EDL, BNP etc. Well you can, but you'd be wrong. I dislike them every bit as much as I dislike the opposite end.

This country and quite a few others, is being pushed to the right as a backlash of the insidious advance of the left and being expected to take the left view as "normal" and everything else as something-ist. The government has made it impossible for people to air their worries or opinions for fear of being something-ist, and because we don't, they think "Well no-one is complaining, so everything is hunky-dory." Well newsflash - it isn't and now a few people are waking up to it.

I despise the EU and all it stands for. I hate my country being inundated with the dregs of the earth. I hate not being able to speak freely. I will not call a man in a frock "she" just because they want me to and I won't be told I have to. For this, I risk being arrested? That's mental. I don't care what people do with their own lives, but when their "rights" risk sending me to jail, something is very wrong. If I spoke out about any religion, I'd risk the same, but other religions can call for our soldiers to be murdered and nothing is done? Why could Jon Snow say he never saw so many white people but I couldn't say I never saw so many black people without being accused of racism? The police spend all their time trying to catch people "misgendering" or writing offensive tweets they have no time to deal with the real crime like people being stabbed daily in London.

As a white, British, heterosexual, fairly fit, working male, my rights have been flushed down the bog and I want them back. I am not a second class citizen in my own country. I'm not a racist, sexist, activist, fascist, transphobic, homophobic, anything else ist or phobic and above all, I'm not an uneducated thug, and I will push back against anyone who suggests I am.

Sorry for the rant mate. 

👍 well said

[ditchman]

watched the vote last night.....ugh..............i dispair ...what a horrible mess this is now and it is going to get worse............

i really think this could have all been avoided..........if we had sent a team of proper negociators to the EU in the first place and not leave it to politico's........

we have local elections here shortly...then followed by a general election no doubt.........then parliament is going to really get messy...........all because we sent a oily rag to the EU instead of an engineer............

[TIGHTCHOKE]

8 minutes ago, ditchman said:

watched the vote last night.....ugh..............i dispair ...what a horrible mess this is now and it is going to get worse............

i really think this could have all been avoided..........if we had sent a team of proper negociators to the EU in the first place and not leave it to politico's........

we have local elections here shortly...then followed by a general election no doubt.........then parliament is going to really get messy...........all because we sent a oily rag to the EU instead of an engineer............

Stop being so damned sensible!

[JohnfromUK]

Agree with Walshies post. (EDIT : and Ditchmans)

'Normally' we have 'two' parties, one 'moderate Right' called Tory/Conservative, one moderate Left, called Labour.

In addition we have LibDem, who are theoretically in between, but have never realistically been much more than a protest vote party.  Then there are the various 'local national' parties in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.  A 'centre party' was tried (SDLP) by Roy Jenkins, Shirley Williams, Bill Rogers and David Owen when Labour lurched left before under Michael Foot, but it fizzled out and amalgamated with the Liberals to make the LibDems.

What has happened now is that Labour - having moved 'Right' under Tony Blair to become almost 'Thatcherite' because that is where the voter were, has now been hijacked by the old "Militant Tendency' (who are now called Momentum) that Blair expelled.  This happened because Blair was too right (and too dishonest and deceitful) for many traditional Labour voters.

Sadly the Tories have moved Left to take over what they (presumably) saw as empty ground.  The new IG lot are also pitching for this ground.  This has now left a huge 'vacuum' between the Tories, notionally 'a bit Right', but realistically hardly Right at all, and UKIP,/BNP who are now 'hard right'.

What is needed (in my view) is a Party placed politically roughly where Thatcher placed the Tories, but how and who?

Edited April 4, 2019 by JohnfromUK

[clakk]

Let,s face it Walshie has nailed it we are the minority now not by numbers but by being isolated by the snowflake leftys .Brexit is dead end of the slime in the Westminster toilet have killed it .Do they care what we voted for no ,do they believe we carry carry on as though nothing happened yes.

Hopefully that will be their downfall ,Letwin and Cooper need voting out and as stated we need a new party that isnt communist or me me me ist asap

[Mice!]

20 minutes ago, ditchman said:

watched the vote last night.....ugh..............i dispair ...what a horrible mess this is now and it is going to get worse............

i really think this could have all been avoided..........if we had sent a team of proper negociators to the EU in the first place and not leave it to politico's........

we have local elections here shortly...then followed by a general election no doubt.........then parliament is going to really get messy...........all because we sent a oily rag to the EU instead of an engineer............

The vote was only to "ask" for a longer extension wasn't it? Europe have said they won't give us one, so might well kick is out before their elections??

And i think your being hard on the oily rag 

[wymberley]

13 minutes ago, ditchman said:

watched the vote last night.....ugh..............i dispair ...what a horrible mess this is now and it is going to get worse............

i really think this could have all been avoided..........if we had sent a team of proper negociators to the EU in the first place and not leave it to politico's........

we have local elections here shortly...then followed by a general election no doubt.........then parliament is going to really get messy...........all because we sent a oily rag to the EU instead of an engineer............

Pretty much spot on, but don't quite agree with the oily rag - as funny as that is  - the oily rag has had some experience, so I think a fluffy duster is nearer the mark.

The real problem is is that we were never going to win. That bunch over there have been horse trading across borders for centuries and are both experienced and good at it. We're rank amateurs by comparison and traditionally if things weren't going our way, then we simply sent a gunboat. Unfortunately, on this occasion this was not an option so consequently, we're stymied.

If I'm right, then it's absolutely pointless blaming our politicians for the mess that has developed. The initial mistake was made by the general public back in the mid 70s.