Changes To The General Licence

[wymberley]

8 minutes ago, CharlieT said:

That was a game license. 

No, unless you are able to obtain a license from NE.

Got a sneaky idea that Scutt knows that. It would be a very cost effective means of meeting the objective

[Scully]

Avery and Packham will be only too pleased if prosecutions follow shooters ignoring this revocation. It will play right into their hands and enable them to claim the higher moral ground and point fingers, so proceed with all caution and ensure any shooting you do until this farce is sorted, is watertight legit wise. 

Complying with legislation is the last thing they want, or expect. 

[scutt]

13 minutes ago, CharlieT said:

That was a game license. 

No, unless you are able to obtain a license from NE.

YER RIGHT sorry getting old . But could work for general licence .This temp general license not much use if you don't have a computer .

Edited April 24, 2019 by scutt

[MarcMaxus]

I've just spoken to NE.

They say no cost to individual licenses but they would take 30 days to process until a new GL is sorted.

They told me they intend to publish a new GL on the 29th but would not discuss any changes.

With regards to shooting anything, it's a none starter. Cant believe it. Its nuts 

[oowee]

Is that using the existing application system? It takes 30 days and is free.?

[neutron619]

1 hour ago, MarcMaxus said:

Well, it gets worse. What a bloody joke.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/organisational-licence-for-routine-work-affecting-protected-species

PS. Anyone in the market for 3 dozen deeks and a semi auto lol

I'm hoping this ends up a storm in a tea cup. This is for commercial use, but you can guarantee the individual licenses will be a similar cost until a new GL is sorted out.

I don't suppose some smart **** at BASC could apply for one for BASC members at cost £110 between all of us...?

Still - would save on the £110/hr travel costs if we just said "England".

[Yellow Bear]

7 minutes ago, oowee said:

It takes 30 days and is free.?

A sprouting field would be wrecked in 3 days in some areas let alone 30 and that is after non lethal means.

[Davetyler]

People may need my net and decoys as any time i put them out pigeons disappear 

[mick miller]

I wonder if Countryfile will cover the resulting damage to crops? Perhaps with a fluffy soft focus angle on how much lead has been prevented from entering watercourses and the diets of raptors as a positive side effect from fields of knackered food? They could even get Mark or Chris on to do a walky talky bit, give them a bit more exposure.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2019 by mick miller

[Walker570]

Of course Pacham et all has not witness a 100 crows purposely walking down the rows of emerging maize pulling each one out as they go and if they had I doubt very much they would care..

Certainly the general public who watch his programes don't care two hoots and think the sun shines.

[yickdaz]

https://www.change.org/p/bbc-bbc-to-sack-chris-packham?recruiter=74948119&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial&utm_term=8bd560c816d8480da067c52d7dbb3221&recruited_by_id=f0d36903-cb1d-4d12-b08b-d7a31fcd5b58&share_bandit_exp=initial-15121471-en-GB&share_bandit_var=v1&utm_content=fht-15121471-en-gb%3Av2

Hope this allowed if so everyone needs to sign it 

Edited April 24, 2019 by yickdaz
Missed out some text

[MarcMaxus]

48 minutes ago, oowee said:

Is that using the existing application system? It takes 30 days and is free.?

Yes apparently so. You have to register prior and that takes 5 days, if you can get the website to work

[old man]

1 hour ago, MarcMaxus said:

I'm supposed to be shooting over wheat tomorrow. Spoke to BASC who are due to call back but haven't yet. Natural England licence department is unavailable. 

Do I or dont I?

No.

[Pistol p]

Am I safe to use my catapult?

[mossy835]

so will all of us have to apply for a licence to shoot pigeons crows rocks and so on.

[lancer425]

2 hours ago, Yellow Bear said:

Sadly the BBC agenda seems to be progressively more left wing, save the planet, veganism as time goes on so getting him banned from the platform which is their platform is unlikely.

Valid point perhaps the BBC needs to be brought into line, a petition looking are revoking the TV licence fee  could well solve that problem. Early days yet folks.

[oowee]

3 minutes ago, mossy835 said:

so will all of us have to apply for a licence to shoot pigeons crows rocks and so on.

Looks likely per farm having met the terms of the licence, most appropriate method not practical to do something else etc and pay for it i guess?

Wild Justice will say that Natural England has wrongly put the onus on individual licence users to explore non-lethal methods as part of the licence conditions. Furthermore, there is no method in place for checking that licence users exhaust all non-lethal options before resorting to killing the birds.

Wild Justice will argue that Natural England has no power to issue a licence if it has not met the condition that it must itself first consider whether there are non-lethal satisfactory solutions to killing the birds. If Natural England has not properly made that assessment then the General Licences under challenge are unlawful.

Dr Mark Avery said “Natural England and Defra are allowing the casual killing of millions of birds each year with no monitoring, no control and no justifiable reason. Natural England was set up to protect wildlife, not to turn a blind eye to such slaughter. Mass killing of wildlife under the General Licences has been going on for nearly 40 years – it’s time that this casual killing ended“.

[arjimlad]

https://markavery.info/2019/04/24/wild-justices-legal-challenge-how-the-case-progressed/

 

Worth a read as to how they did it. If they're right that NE failed to implement a compliant licensing regime then there's nothing BASC or anyone could have done about this and it should have been up to NE to put it right sooner.

 

We will have to see what the new licensing regime looks like but the timing is abominable for nesting birds and our farmers.  Hopefully this will lead to a licensing system which is more robust against challenges like these so we all know where we stand on roosting & stubbles etc.

[Miserableolgit]

Quote

Wild Justice wins its first legal challenge

Mark ♦ April 23, 2019 ♦ 47 Comments

Wild Justice was set up by Chris Packham, Ruth Tingay and myself and was launched on 13 February this year. Our first legal challenge was against the General Licences issued by Natural England on 1 January this year.

Late this afternoon Wild Justice heard that we had won our first legal challenge. We could only take this case with the generous support of over 1100 donors.  Thank you all!

We’ll be talking to our lawyers about this and what it means in the long term.

Here is the link to the announcement on the Westminster Government website – click here.

Thank you to everyone who supported this successful challenge against casual killing of some birds.  We will post more information after discussions between ourselves and with our lawyers.

Which can be found at https://markavery.info/2019/04/23/wild-justice-wins-its-first-legal-challenge/

[Debbie BASC]

BASC questions future of NE relationship after "appalling" general licences decision

BASC has told Natural England (NE) it questions the value of the partnership between the two organisations in the wake of the decision to revoke three general licences in England for controlling certain wild birds from tomorrow.

In a 55 minute phone call with Natural England, BASC's chief executive Ian Bell said that the "appalling" decision was similar to "changing the speed limit effective tomorrow and putting out a notice on the internet but no new signs".

During the phone call, Mr Bell demanded an urgent meeting with new Natural England chairman Tony Juniper to discuss the revocation and the validity and future of the relationship between BASC and NE.

He said: "I have this morning questioned the value of our partnership with Natural England. I also said I was appalled that the announcement was made without any form of consultation with the rural community. 
 
"I have asked what assurances NE can give to those who have not been properly informed of the changes. We simply must know whether they will have protection from prosecution. It is quite frankly ludicrous to say people can apply for a license on the day the law changes. 
 
"I have been able to ascertain that there had been no consultation with law enforcement agencies and BASC is following up with the police to get relevant advice for its members.

"I have made it clear to NE that it has failed in the role of a government organisation to protect otherwise law-abiding people." 

BASC and other rural organisations were only told about NE's decision in a press release issued at 3.30pm yesterday.

BASC chairman Peter Glenser QC said: "Natural England's actions and the lack of notice they have given to the rural community is utterly unacceptable. Their decision has already caused panic and chaos. 

"We are at a crucial point in the farming and countryside management calendar and to drop this on people without notice is outrageous."

BASC is seeking urgent legal advice following Natural England's decision (https://basc.org.uk/blog/press-releases/featured-news/basc-seeks-urgent-legal-advice-on-general-licences-revocation/)

ENDS
 

[Harnser]

This is a serious threat to pigeon and corvid shooting . We as shooters should now get behind our shooting organisations and give them our full support and if necessary donate some money towards a fighting fund . Getting just about fed up with some of the negative comments on this post . Spoke to my farmer friend today and he livid about the whole thing . He is going to get in touch with DEFRA today and find out what can be done to stop this stupid matter . The land owners are the biggest lobby and in my opinion they should be complaining to the relevant government departments.

Harnser

Edited April 24, 2019 by Harnser

[Teal]

BASC have just put this out: https://basc.org.uk/blog/ne-general-licences/basc-questions-future-of-ne-relationship-after-appalling-general-licences-decision/

I think NE have blindsided everyone (including those pushing for the revocation) by bringing this in, with no backup plan, and with virtually immediate effect. I would encourage everyone to write to Natural England using the complaint form: https://www.smartsurvey.co.uk/s/4LIRL/?fbclid=IwAR29U1PZyGHpcytMB-v9KpkLMB5PQVBAYW5uBFc9uI2OrJyujlkZDFp4ZXo . This is completely unacceptable, and the more responses they get the more helpful it will be to get a faster resolution, and a better resolution for the control of these pests going forward.

Two days notice, and to bring it in at such a perilious time of year for lambs, nesting birds, and crops. No backup plan, no option for people needing to carry out work to protect their farms. Disgrace.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

What a complete cluster-****!

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Debbie we've been discussing this since yesterday!

[andrewluke]

8 minutes ago, Harnser said:

This is a serious threat to pigeon and corvid shooting . We as shooters should now get behind our shooting organisations and give them our full support and if necessary donate some money towards a fighting fund . Getting just about fed up with some of the negative comments on this post . 

Harnser

i think shooters who are not members of basc etc should contribute to a fighting fund but as i am a basc member i already contribute

Edited April 24, 2019 by andrewluke