Do you trust BASC

[BlaserF3]

https://markavery.info/2016/07/26/guest-blog-john-swift-chair-lead-ammunition-group/

Does anyone trust BASC today after this?

I went back to this from 2016, why do shooters keep giving this organisation money?

Edited March 1, 2023 by BlaserF3

[Walker570]

Never rated this bloke. I was at a Game Fair and on the BASC stand helping out.  Having a quick cuppa behind the scenes when another helper came in and asked Swift to present a proze to the best ferret owner who was a rough looking character I admit and Swift refused to present the prize. I wrote to BASC at the time and voiced my opinions....they have not changed.   He stepped into the job when the previous Chairman resigned.  Do not judge BASC on just one person.

[rbrowning2]

I think BASC is like my clay shooting on occasions, I am missing yet continue to shoot in the same spot hoping for a different outcome, they need to rethink their strategy and goals, be more proactive rather than reactive.

like it or not, they are probably our best hope for the future of the sport.

[blankfirer]

Not really sure regarding as John swift but one thing I can tell you is wild justice will bang on about the lead debate and if you connect the dots John swift was probably at the forefront . The states dn't use lead for waterfowl not sure about anything else but in this day and age we cannot be seen to have fun shooting animals . Look at all the birds shot if even 50percent were sold in supermarkets and readily bought people would ask you to shoot more

[Pushandpull]

Swift did not just "step into the job" as Director (not Chairman) when John Anderton retired. He applied and was selected, and I understand that the runner-up was John Richards who had been Development Officer. "Chairman" leads Council and is chosen by them from their number. Not arguing here but just adding facts.

[Dave at kelton]

Nearly seven years ago and time to move on.

[dessyb]

no😄

[captainhastings]

Not presenting a prize to a ferret owner just about sums it up. Bet if it was some 5 grand gun totting money man he would been out there like a shot.  But as said they are all we have but they need to go on the attack. Fields sports is basically in a battle and if we keep losing ground in the end there will be nothing. They should also bring the lurcher man under the umbrella as we are getting a hiding to nothing due to few clowns. Too late for the scottish folks they are screwed all ready 

[London Best]

My memory tells me that John Swift was John Anderton’s nephew.

[Penelope]

1 hour ago, captainhastings said:

Not presenting a prize to a ferret owner just about sums it up. Bet if it was some 5 grand gun totting money man he would been out there like a shot.  But as said they are all we have but they need to go on the attack. Fields sports is basically in a battle and if we keep losing ground in the end there will be nothing. They should also bring the lurcher man under the umbrella as we are getting a hiding to nothing due to few clowns. Too late for the scottish folks they are screwed all ready 

Wasn't the BFSS, now CA the home of those that hunted with dogs. BASC is a shooting organisation.

[Pushandpull]

Swift left BASC nearly ten years ago (June 2013). I am not sure how discussing his possible failings addresses the question posed by the OP.                                                Surely the trust we might or might not have in the present CEO is a bit more relevant.

[enfieldspares]

24 minutes ago, Pushandpull said:

Swift left BASC nearly ten years ago (June 2013). I am not sure how discussing his possible failings addresses the question posed by the OP.                                                

He did. Yet they, BASC, chose to award him but just this last few months honorary life membership. What next? The Tory Party giving the same to Sir Tony Blair or Gordon Brown? 

[Gas seal]

BlaserF3. Yes I do.  . The BASC has done a lot of work for wildflowers, and still is doing good work for them. Crown leases, shooting consents , a lot of time to help keep clubs shooting .Wild  Fowler’s  have seen all this before, and if clubs have any problems with BASC they will communicate with them. Some time ago I watched an interview on tv with a spokesperson for fox hunting, his reasons for keeping hunting was shooting them would result in to many wounded foxes, I’ve heard the same said about steel pellets wounding game. Maybe shooters should just blame everyone else, until there’s no one left to blame.

[harkom]

4 hours ago, London Best said:

My memory tells me that John Swift was John Anderton’s nephew.

Anderton - I seem to recall - "shoehorned Young John into the position".

6 hours ago, Dave at kelton said:

Nearly seven years ago and time to move on.

If you do not study the past then you will fall for the same old trick.

[Dave at kelton]

10 minutes ago, harkom said:

Anderton - I seem to recall - "shoehorned Young John into the position".

If you do not study the past then you will fall for the same old trick.

That’s not what I said. Moving on does not mean that you don’t learn from history. You just don’t let it consume you as some appear to do where BASC are concerned! 

[oowee]

BASC do some excellent work but would benefit from a complete rethink to publicity and promotion. It's too rooted in countryside tradition and this is reflected in its approach to marketing.  It desperately needs to be modernised and brought into the digital age. 

[Conor O'Gorman]

As a general comment on this thread (and similar posts seen elsewhere) I think it's shameful and cowardly for some shooters to use PW (where you have the comfort blanket of a hidden identity) to try to denigrate the character of a fellow shooter with the various comments above in the public domain. I wonder how tolerant any of you would be if you discovered your character being undermined like this in the public domain.

As for the election of Honorary Life Members at BASC AGMs, last year John Swift was among four people awarded in recognition of outstanding contribution to BASC and the wider shooting community - each nomination having being approved after a vote by AGM attendees. 

It's all outlined here:

https://basc.org.uk/basc-agm-report/

If anyone is interested in influencing how BASC make decisions we can each vote in Council elections and we can each attend the BASC AGM (and it's been virtual for several years - no excuse if you didn't attend)

Voting is now open for this year’s BASC Council election - there are 12 candidates standing for two national seats, with the results set to be announced at this year’s AGM on 20 May. 

https://basc.org.uk/vote-in-this-years-basc-council-election/

We face multiple challenges this year (i.e. guns, ammo, game shooting) and if ever there was a time to make a stand and adopt a united front it's now.

I say to those of you spending your spare time making negative unconstructive comments here and elsewhere on social media, please consider burying the axe this year and get behind BASC and the other organisations fighting your corner.

[jall25]

Well said 

[Scully]

11 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

As a general comment on this thread (and similar posts seen elsewhere) I think it's shameful and cowardly for some shooters to use PW (where you have the comfort blanket of a hidden identity) to try to denigrate the character of a fellow shooter with the various comments above in the public domain. I wonder how tolerant any of you would be if you discovered your character being undermined like this in the public domain.

As for the election of Honorary Life Members at BASC AGMs, last year John Swift was among four people awarded in recognition of outstanding contribution to BASC and the wider shooting community - each nomination having being approved after a vote by AGM attendees. 

It's all outlined here:

https://basc.org.uk/basc-agm-report/

If anyone is interested in influencing how BASC make decisions we can each vote in Council elections and we can each attend the BASC AGM (and it's been virtual for several years - no excuse if you didn't attend)

Voting is now open for this year’s BASC Council election - there are 12 candidates standing for two national seats, with the results set to be announced at this year’s AGM on 20 May. 

https://basc.org.uk/vote-in-this-years-basc-council-election/

We face multiple challenges this year (i.e. guns, ammo, game shooting) and if ever there was a time to make a stand and adopt a united front it's now.

I say to those of you spending your spare time making negative unconstructive comments here and elsewhere on social media, please consider burying the axe this year and get behind BASC and the other organisations fighting your corner.

I’ve said all I’m going to say about Swift on this forum,  I’m simply staggered to discover BASC deemed him worthy of life membership after his implicit collusion of deceit and dishonesty with Paine and the Wetlands Trust in their campaign ( a campaign  which BASC itself at the time fought hard against ) against lead shot, it’s toxicity to flora, fauna and in particular human health. 
I’m totally baffled. 

[Lloyd90]

12 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

As a general comment on this thread (and similar posts seen elsewhere) I think it's shameful and cowardly for some shooters to use PW (where you have the comfort blanket of a hidden identity) to try to denigrate the character of a fellow shooter with the various comments above in the public domain. I wonder how tolerant any of you would be if you discovered your character being undermined like this in the public domain.

As for the election of Honorary Life Members at BASC AGMs, last year John Swift was among four people awarded in recognition of outstanding contribution to BASC and the wider shooting community - each nomination having being approved after a vote by AGM attendees. 

It's all outlined here:

https://basc.org.uk/basc-agm-report/

If anyone is interested in influencing how BASC make decisions we can each vote in Council elections and we can each attend the BASC AGM (and it's been virtual for several years - no excuse if you didn't attend)

Voting is now open for this year’s BASC Council election - there are 12 candidates standing for two national seats, with the results set to be announced at this year’s AGM on 20 May. 

https://basc.org.uk/vote-in-this-years-basc-council-election/

We face multiple challenges this year (i.e. guns, ammo, game shooting) and if ever there was a time to make a stand and adopt a united front it's now.

I say to those of you spending your spare time making negative unconstructive comments here and elsewhere on social media, please consider burying the axe this year and get behind BASC and the other organisations fighting your corner.

Aren’t you an employee of BASC? 
 

Drop the axe and get behind BASC?!
 

Here’s an idea, how about they earn it? How about they show the public and membership they are worthy of their suppose, not just asking for blind support. 
 

Where was the membership consultation on their massively unpopular lead ban?

 

What about dropping the legal insurance to challenge Police etc? We see cases on here and other forums every week that could be fought but BASC claimed it wasn’t used (cos they never took up the fight) so they dropped it. 
 

 

 

As for your comments that any criticism is cowardly and shameful … shame on you for shutting down criticisms … you are an organisation that has put yourself out into the public realm. 
 

You can’t put yourself out in the public claiming to be the voice of shooting then cry when you take a bit of flack. 

[Fellside]

2 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

Aren’t you an employee of BASC? 
 

Drop the axe and get behind BASC?!
 

Here’s an idea, how about they earn it? How about they show the public and membership they are worthy of their suppose, not just asking for blind support. 
 

Where was the membership consultation on their massively unpopular lead ban?

 

What about dropping the legal insurance to challenge Police etc? We see cases on here and other forums every week that could be fought but BASC claimed it wasn’t used (cos they never took up the fight) so they dropped it. 
 

 

 

As for your comments that any criticism is cowardly and shameful … shame on you for shutting down criticisms … you are an organisation that has put yourself out into the public realm. 
 

You can’t put yourself out in the public claiming to be the voice of shooting then cry when you take a bit of flack. 

I can appreciate the points you and others make, but really, Conor and current (I say CURRENT!) BASC employees are humans not machines. They have a lot of tough commitments, and will undoubtedly become distracted by raging irrational attacks via PW and other media. Some of the behaviour of PW members towards BASC has been akin to the token drunken looney on a train carriage who you avoid sitting beside. That’s not directed at any single individual - but a general observation of a few. I’ve no doubt there have been past BASC mistakes. Hell, I’ve made a few of those I’m my career too, who hasn’t? However, the past is just that, passed, gone, over, a dead parrot! I too wouldn’t have supported the life membership of Swift, but it’s happened. It’s not major news - let’s move on!

While helpful constructive suggestions may be useful, I’m not sure the sustained level of hateful attacks contribute to our future in any way. May I respectfully suggest that we avoid any kind of shooting community implosion - which our detractors would delight in.

For the record I too would definitely prefer to use lead ammunition, and have requested special ‘derogations’ in this respect. However it is completely understandable that BASC and other shooting org’s have seen the writing on the wall, and are trying to ‘ride the green wave’ so to speak, rather than allowing us all to become drowned by it…! Stretching the maritime analogy yet further, does the name King Canute mean anything to you?

[grahamch]

Why keep refferring to events in the dim and distant past?

Am sure the BASC do a lot of good that we never hear about, you rarely hear about any of the other organisations doing much other than the nonesense name change by the CPSA!

 

[udderlyoffroad]

What, is the point of these threads?  There's enough of them, but the ferret man is really scraping the barrel somewhat.

I've no idea who this Swift chap is, but I couldn't give a hoot about him or some past chair not talking to a ferret enthusiast.

Honestly, if that's a reason to **** and moan from the sidelines, crack on, but expect hefty use of the block button by people interested in the future of shooting. You can all agree with each other whilst you slip into ever more (potentially libelous) nonsense*, whilst simultaneously doing nothing to secure the future of shooting.

I certainly think the voluntary lead phase-out was comically mis-handled, but I understand the drive.  This was a  pre-emptive response to any potential REACH bans, not the cause of it!  Those that struggle to differentiate the two, really ought to step back and take a look at the situation with a clear head. 

Incidentally, EU REACH is busy trying to ban all sorts of things essential to everyday life, not least of which are refrigerants and things containing PFAS, and as with lead, the alternatives might tentatively be there but they're certainly not mature yet. 

But of course that doesn't fit the "BASC called for a permanent ban on lead" narrative that some on here seem insistent on peddling, despite facts to the contrary.

I've said it before, fine don't be a member of <insert countryside organisation of choice>, but you'd better be spending considerable amounts of your spare time writing to your local MPs, lobbying, etc.  If you're not, you are part of the problem.

*My favourite BASC-bashing thread so far is still the one moaning that the BASC tie isn't as good as the WAGBI one.  That will take some beating.

 

[neutron619]

Any day now, I'm going to start a thread on why BASC are **** because they didn't support our shooters during the American War of Independence and because they haven't yet managed to abolish disabled people, Morris dancing or Wednesdays.

It would do about as much good as this thread.

If you lot spent half of the time you spend moaning about BASC actually doing something to try to keep shooting going for the next generation, it would be in rude health. BASC aren't perfect - as someone observed above, they are people - but at least they're trying to achieve something, which is more than 95% of the keyboard warriors on this site.

Christ - I remember the days when PW was actually worth visiting and had an active membership. Now it seems to be about 10 of you, constantly bitching about BASC - except when you're bitching about my posts and anything else you don't understand or agree with.

[albifrons]

I trust BASC 100%!

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of BASC knockers that surface every time one of them finds some problem and looks for a whipping boy.

As a Secretary of a wildfowling Club, who truly knows the value of BASC, when we have had problems with leases and any other concern, they have always been on the end of a phone or email etc. I guarantee you will not find that expertise any where else.   (I’ll await the responses to say “I cannot contact them”)

To harp back to Swifty and the lead shot issue, it’s gone, forget it. 
 

Increased pressure on Fieldsports is increasing and will continue to increase, and the only org than could possibly combat this pressure is BASC. If you seriously think that any other org will have the clout, the knowledge or the expertise to take that on, then give your head a wobble, as the biggest excuse I see for leaving BASC from the knockers is, “there is cheaper Insurance out there”.

Tin hat is firmly on!