H.S. 2

[scouser]

So it looks like the track from Birmingham to the north west is going to be cancelled, they shouldn’t have started the thing in the first place, £100 billion just to save 30 minutes into the rats nest.

[RCB56]

Have never been able to understand the need for HS2, if you need to be anywhere 30 minutes earlier just set off as least 30 minutes earlier.

[mr smith]

It's as much if not more about creating space on the west coast mainline for other services.Mixing high speed,local and freight is far from ideal.

[Mice!]

I couldn't care less about getting to London faster, I'd much prefer a well ran, on time, cheaper service we could rely on, imagine that, just like Holland, China, Japan, France.........

[VicW]

The money could be better spent on improving the existing network and still have got to Birmingham quicker. Improvements to the east/west rail network are essential as well. It all points to things being improved for London dwellers and to hell with the rest of the country.

VicW.

[Yellow Bear]

31 minutes ago, VicW said:

It all points to things being improved for London dwellers and to hell with the rest of the country.

'twas ever thus

[Ultrastu]

Yeah but nobody wants to go to London any more. People are leaving the sinking ship .

[Dougy]

The plan from the beginning was to spread the wealth further up north. This was raised years ago before the 1st spade broke the soil. 

The track that's down at resent if updated would enable the trains to run faster. Just about every route in the UK has speed restrictions in place. I could write a book but I'd end up with high blood pressure and blown gasket. It's been a crock of muck from the start. Sold as the best thing since the wheel . 

I could get print off from 1000's of miles of track with these restrictions on. But best wait till I'm closer to retirement. 

[ditchman]

2 hours ago, scouser said:

So it looks like the track from Birmingham to the north west is going to be cancelled, they shouldn’t have started the thing in the first place, £100 billion just to save 30 minutes into the rats nest.

all it benifits is London...yet again..........dosnt stop anywhere else and screws the contryside up in between and wrecks the property prices

[London Best]

Look on the bright side........at least it will get you out of London faster.

[udderlyoffroad]

2 hours ago, Mice! said:

I couldn't care less about getting to London faster, I'd much prefer a well ran, on time, cheaper service we could rely on, imagine that, just like Holland, China, Japan, France.........

Part of the point was to take the intercity traffic off the old lines so you could run more frequent local services.  Apparently.

Problem is they insisted on 360 km/h running, thus necessitating the straightest of tracks, which means more expense.  Excellent if you own a civil engineering company, bad news if you're a taxpayer.

If they do cancel the Brummie-land to Manchester leg, they want their heads checking, it's already being built!

[7daysinaweek]

1 hour ago, London Best said:

Look on the bright side........at least it will get you out of London faster.

[Bigbob]

3 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Part of the point was to take the intercity traffic off the old lines so you could run more frequent local services.  Apparently.

Problem is they insisted on 360 km/h running, thus necessitating the straightest of tracks, which means more expense.  Excellent if you own a civil engineering company, bad news if you're a taxpayer.

If they do cancel the Brummie-land to Manchester leg, they want their heads checking, it's already being built!

When did any government ever care about the tax payer every crazy scheme they come out with weather its a  successes or fails they land the tax payer with the bill 

[nobbyathome]

It should have never been started in the first place all it has done is ruin many peoples lives  total waste of time  I work in London and regularly go to Birmingham would I benefit for saving 30 mins time   To be honest no I would rather the money spent on  new train tracks across the country or up north 

[ditchman]

35 minutes ago, nobbyathome said:

It should have never been started in the first place all it has done is ruin many peoples lives  total waste of time  I work in London and regularly go to Birmingham would I benefit for saving 30 mins time   To be honest no I would rather the money spent on  new train tracks across the country or up north 

Branchlines as well.............what were small towns back when the lines were axed by Beeching...are now large conubations now

[dead eye alan]

7 hours ago, VicW said:

The money could be better spent on improving the existing network and still have got to Birmingham quicker. Improvements to the east/west rail network are essential as well. It all points to things being improved for London dwellers and to hell with the rest of the country.

VicW.

Spot on Vic, but The government call that levelling up!

[Gordon R]

How many millions / billions have been given to firms involved in this project. I think they have got rich, whether it goes ahead or not. 

[Scully]

2 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

How many millions / billions have been given to firms involved in this project. I think they have got rich, whether it goes ahead or not. 

This. OH and me were debating this very topic as we watched the news regarding HS2. 
No doubt there will be some journalists beavering away to expose all these companies, which will make the news sometime just before the next GE I would say. 😉

Edited October 3, 2023 by Scully

[scouser]

I wonder how many politicians are on the boards of some of these firms???

[Yellow Bear]

5 minutes ago, scouser said:

I wonder how many politicians are on the boards of some of these firms???

There are also a lot of union leaders pushing for it.

[CaptC]

If the HS2 farce is cancelled do the people who had compensation (Johnson's father allegedly had a huge bung) have to pay the money back? If so they are quids in because they can buy back their houses at half price?

One day the the truth will hopefully come out about who really benefitted from the deal - Tory donors perhaps?

[Westward]

Personally I've never thought that levelling up could be achieved by throwing money at the north or by spending several times the defence budget to build a railway line that saves 20 minutes on the journey time. But I am a London boy and the folks throwing muck should realise that the only 2 regions of the UK that generate more wealth for the nation than they consume are 1) London and 2) the south east. Greater London, with some 10% of the population, generates around 30% of GDP and the figures for the south east are broadly similar. These figures aren't flukes or manipulation of wealth distribution they are a reflection of the simple fact that people in those areas work harder and longer. One of my sons is an example. He leaves the house around 7 am and with travel time of an hour and 10 minutes each way he gets home around 7 pm. He does not get paid overtime but he has a career, not just a job. 

HS2 north west or not, the only way levelling up will really start is when people's attitudes change to be more like those of the south east. It's not about railways or shopping malls or car battery super factories and it's certainly not about shovelling in huge amounts cash, it's about more and more people having aspirations for further education and making the effort for a better life.

[enfieldspares]

HS2 there's a synergy waiting to be told. So if it hadn't been for the Tories and Beeching we wouldn't need HS2 to as we already had a second mainline to Manchester to the very station in that same city that the Tories are presently holding this week's conference in!

But it was the Tories that destroyed the railways system in the 1960s to give fat motorway and dual road building carriageway contracts to their cronies in the construction business and now, as road construction is out favour its the Tories in the 2020s gave HS2 railway contacts to reinvent a railway system that they destroyed. And who benefits today? The very heirs of those families of those 1960s cronies. You couldn't make it up!

[GingerCat]

48 minutes ago, Westward said:

Personally I've never thought that levelling up could be achieved by throwing money at the north or by spending several times the defence budget to build a railway line that saves 20 minutes on the journey time. But I am a London boy and the folks throwing muck should realise that the only 2 regions of the UK that generate more wealth for the nation than they consume are 1) London and 2) the south east. Greater London, with some 10% of the population, generates around 30% of GDP and the figures for the south east are broadly similar. These figures aren't flukes or manipulation of wealth distribution they are a reflection of the simple fact that people in those areas work harder and longer. One of my sons is an example. He leaves the house around 7 am and with travel time of an hour and 10 minutes each way he gets home around 7 pm. He does not get paid overtime but he has a career, not just a job. 

HS2 north west or not, the only way levelling up will really start is when people's attitudes change to be more like those of the south east. It's not about railways or shopping malls or car battery super factories and it's certainly not about shovelling in huge amounts cash, it's about more and more people having aspirations for further education and making the effort for a better life.

I'm sorry,I have to take  exception to this, maybe its tounge in cheek. I was born in the se of London. I worked there for many a year. I now live and work many miles away. To mirror your example i leave my house at 630 and if I'm lucky I get home at 8pm. Sometimes I get called back to work and sometimes I don't come home, I just sleep (if I'm lucky) in the office. I don't get paid extra for that, it's just the job.  Sometimes I don't sleep and work through, tis the nature of the busines (sorry career).I have also got further education whislt working, half a masters recently. Whats important is that I am by no means alone on this and my northern colleagues do the same. Can't say it's much different to the south east. My wife doesn't think so either, she used to commute into london also do silly hours in  her profession, ones she continued whilst here until the owner stole 64 million of clients money and collapsed the business (that's London for you). 

London and the South East is richer by design, always has been and unless the design changes always will be. Get over yourself. 

[enfieldspares]

1 hour ago, CaptC said:

If the HS2 farce is cancelled do the people who had compensation (Johnson's father allegedly had a huge bung) have to pay the money back? If so they are quids in because they can buy back their houses at half price?

One day the the truth will hopefully come out about who really benefitted from the deal - Tory donors perhaps?

See my post! Spot on! And now if it is cancelled? Then as the contracts are signed these Tory cronies will be paid money for nothing whilst the actual construction workers get made redundant and laid off!

Edited October 3, 2023 by enfieldspares